Opinions please; persistent lameness.

[TrasaM]

Hope this link works...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151821844071795

I'd really appreciate some comments / opinions on how this horse is moving. He's not mine but I ride him regularly for my friend. I've been riding him the last 3 days and something is still not right. Vets have seen him and nothing much coming out if that.

His feet were x rayed and there are no problems there although a decision was made to shoe his fronts after this video was taken in December . He's also lost a few kg since then

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

Not sure I would really describe the horse as lame in the vid, short maybe, but not lame. I personally would put onto a IR/EMS diet, with the right balancer, get the weight off and re-assess. Especially if the decision to shoe was based on any footiness. To me, it looks like a horse that is struggling to move with the weight it is carrying. I notice from the comments there is a suspicion of stifle issues, which the excess weight will not help, and lots of hill/pole work should help (there are rare occaisions it doesn't though) build up the muscle to help keep the stifle where it should be and working properly.

 

[touchstone]

I think losing lots of weight would benefit him enormously, he looks to be tight through his back end, but lugging lots of extra weight about won't help and can affect movement, so I'd work on that as a priority and see if it makes any difference,if he has been overweight for a while then it may have triggered a bit of arthritis. I wonder if he also has something like low grade laminitis going on?

 

[Goldenstar]

I did not see any signs of lameness in front .
He does not look 100% behind to me on the right rein.
He's not bending correctly on either rein and I agree with the posters above who say a diet would be the first thing I would be doing .

 

[TrasaM]

Thanks NLP.. Yes he was overweight then by about 20kg I think. I've ridden his over the last 3 days and he is very uneven and reluctant to trot. It's a worry though knowing how much to push him through this and not make matters worse.

 

[TrasaM]

Laminitis was excluded much to our surprise. Bloods were checked and feet x rayed and given a clean bill of health ..vet described them as text book healthy feet.

 

[Goldenstar]

I amazed it's only twenty kilos TBH .

 

[TrasaM]

I amazed it's only twenty kilos TBH .

We weight him regularly at 518 kg he was described as underweight by vet. He was about 550kg when the video was taken. He's quite a chunky boy.

 

[Goldenstar]

We weight him regularly at 518 kg he was described as underweight by vet. He was about 550kg when the video was taken. He's quite a chunky boy.

Here that horse would be kept much much thinner .

 

[ester]

how old is he? on the basis of vid I too would be interested to see how he was if significantly lighter.

 

[TrasaM]

I think he's just coming up to 7 years.

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

How tall is he?

 

[TrasaM]

How tall is he?

15h .. Looks smaller though and I didn't believe it myself until I measured him

 

[ellie11987]

Here that horse would be kept much much thinner .

This. He looked VERY overweight in that video to me, not just 20kgs.

 

[Pigeon]

What did the vets suggest? I guess if they can't find anything definitive, you'll just have to bash on and re-assess in a few weeks. Perhaps a visit from a physio would be useful?

I agree with the weight, I know it makes a big difference, and he is a rather chunky chap. I would do lots of very gentle suppling and strengthening work. Loads of in hand and steady lunging over poles, stretching, gentle hill work. Nothing too sudden, but I guess it will either pin point the problem or improve it. Will he rein back uphill? Is he sound on a straight line?

 

[TrasaM]

Lol. Pigeon .. He's big boned His weight gain was unfortunate indeed and this winter he's had nothing besides hay and grazing.

. I can make him do what I call his cart horse trot and he can be quite brisk but ask him to slow and lengthen the stride and he struggles. Head nods and not pushing through evenly from behind. I know that he used to be able to do a lovely trot with a nice contact and outline so I'm not imagining that he's currently struggling a bit.
Not tried reining him back recently but I do need to do some ground work with him again. Hes not been lunged for a while because of the field being wet and muddy.

Yes,I think he needs physio too. Last person who treated him was pretty useless so we won't have her back

 

[amandap]

I amazed it's only twenty kilos TBH .

I'm afraid I agree. He looks very well covered indeed to me. Sorry to pile in with that not very helpful comment.

 

[PolarSkye]

I don't like the way he's holding his whole body to be honest - he just looks very tentative and blocked. What does he look like in a straight line on hard standing?

He is also carrying FAR too much weight. If he were mine, I'd be putting him on emergency/lami rations, soaking his hay, limiting his grazing (muzzle, sand/sick paddock). As for working him, I honestly don't know. Perhaps see what he looks like after physio has been and then assess?

He doesn't look happy, poor chap .

P

 

[TrasaM]

I don't like the way he's holding his whole body to be honest - he just looks very tentative and blocked. What does he look like in a straight line on hard standing?

He is also carrying FAR too much weight. If he were mine, I'd be putting him on emergency/lami rations, soaking his hay, limiting his grazing (muzzle, sand/sick paddock). As for working him, I honestly don't know. Perhaps see what he looks like after physio has been and then assess?

He doesn't look happy, poor chap .

P

I'm inclined to agree. He is not a happy cob and I know that he's not just being lazy. The stifle problem was being managed well and we worked through that. He had a nice trot and a lovely canter but things started to go wrong again. He started dragging his back end rather than working through his back correctly and started to feel uneven : stepping short on one side and reluctant to trot. My feeling is that his compensating for the dodgy stifle has created problems elsewhere. He hates going downhill too as that's when the stifle starts to click amd seize up more. Hopefully now the field has started to dry up will also help him.

And he is now MUCH slimmer..or should I say a lot less fat

 

[windseywoo]

Could he possibly have injured himself in the field? Maybe he needs a complete MOT? Forgetting about the issues he's had before with his stifle, especially if you thought you'd managed to sort that. If he has lost a bit of weight is he getting any better or still the same?

 

[Wagtail]

I amazed it's only twenty kilos TBH .

I agree. I would have said more like 100 kg. I am serious.

 

[ihatework]

I am absolutely gobsmacked that horse weighs in at 518kg!!! I would put him at 620 ish. Serious diet needed.
Hope you get to the bottom of his unlevellness.

 

[TrasaM]

He gets weighed at the vets so it's not an estimate by tape
So a year ago at 518 kg he was underweight but not by a huge amount.
At 525kg he was pretty much spot on.
He 'd been weighed just before the video was taken in December at just under 550kg and weight loss was advised. He's not been weighed since but he is definitely slimmer now and the girth has gone up several notches I'll try to get him weighed again as soon as his owner is well. Bit of a tank is Asbo cob

 

[ester]

I would actually have put him at bigger than 15hh, poss just due to his size not sure. It would be interesting to see a pic of him at 518 kg.

 

[TrasaM]

Could he possibly have injured himself in the field? Maybe he needs a complete MOT? Forgetting about the issues he's had before with his stifle, especially if you thought you'd managed to sort that. If he has lost a bit of weight is he getting any better or still the same?

When he gets up from rolling he immediately bucks and kicks out. He's capable of some amazing aerial acrobatics so yes, it's very possible that some of it is self inflicted. TBH the weight loss has made little difference to how he's moving. We were sure he was Laminitic but there's no sign of it and his fasting blood tests were excellent.

 

[cptrayes]

It's it me imagining things, or is his near/left hind periodically giving way, possibly at the stifle?????? He seems to just collapse on it several times in the video, on both reins.

 

[Red-1]

The right hind looks stiff to me. On the left rein I would describe him as stiff, on the right rein as lame on his right hind (the leg with the white sock). I think you did the right thing calling the vet.

If the vet was not helpful I would give some time off, start work again with straight lines, and if it persists be referred to a specialist equine hospital for a lameness work up.

Seen a couple of "big boys" with similar symptoms be transformed with hock treatment (steroid injection) and rest, and it has then lasted for years.

Oh, I would also check his feet ( ;-) )

 

[Merrymoles]

My 15.1 is also a chunky type of lad but weighs in at near 420 when he's fit - probably nearer 440 at the moment due to a lack of work over winter and some excellent hay. I'll be working to get those winter kilos off both of us this summer, despite the fact that he remains reasonably athletic. Your lad must be very chunky to be underweight at 518 but that's horses!
I think the difficulty is ruling out any other underlying cause if he's still a bit well padded so would go with the continued weight loss. If he still doesn't improve, then it's time for a full vet work up. You say, and it looks from the video, that he's not working through his back and I would tend to get his back checked out first.

 

[TrasaM]

It's it me imagining things, or is his near/left hind periodically giving way, possibly at the stifle?????? He seems to just collapse on it several times in the video, on both reins.

Yes. That's the side that locks up on him.

 

[TrasaM]

The right hind looks stiff to me. On the left rein I would describe him as stiff, on the right rein as lame on his right hind (the leg with the white sock). I think you did the right thing calling the vet.

If the vet was not helpful I would give some time off, start work again with straight lines, and if it persists be referred to a specialist equine hospital for a lameness work up.

Seen a couple of "big boys" with similar symptoms be transformed with hock treatment (steroid injection) and rest, and it has then lasted for years.

Oh, I would also check his feet ( ;-) )

That's the odd thing. His was barefoot at this stage and always had been but had started to get footy. The back right as you spotted was very tender at this stage. Investigations showed up nothing so eventually she was advised to put front shoes on. X rays showed feet to be in good health.