Opinions please

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fair

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Going through a very tough patch with my horse at the minute and any opinions/advice would be appriciated

Basically we bought a horse about 2 years ago for me after coming off a pony that i took from nothing to compete in pony trials, i was totally spoilt with him as he was such a character and would jump clear no matter how i rode him. For what the horse is we got him reletively cheap, mainly because he had only been ridden by professionals but they all struggled with him, he has a very difficult nature, he school really nicely at home and the minute he goes to an event he gets tight and starts rearing etc

We bought him for me to aim at the junior team etc (wasnt expecting to get on it, but compete in the trials) after the end of the first season together (last year) things looked good, he had done roughly 5 novices with me clr xc in them all and dressage ranging from 32 in our first novice to 40. Through the winter we worked on his sj and started jumping dc foxhunter, but it meant he didnt respect 1.10 which he needs to jump for novices so moved him back down in march.

Dressage is my weak point so we had roughly 2 lessons a month, the problem i had was my sister kept falling out with the trainers so we changed every few months, very frustrating for me, but anyway by the start of the season i felt an improvement and was looking foward to it.#

first event of the season and a girth strap snaps off my dressage saddle so do my test in my jumping saddle, he got 39 which was alright considering he had only competed at one venue all winter, went clr sj then i made a mistake xc and we fell.
2nd event and was still doing dressage in my jumping saddle andhe gets 44 which i was rally disappointed with, 4flts sj and a steady clr xc.
Next event 40 dressage, starting to make a habit of it and me getting very unmotivated, 8flts sj, very irritating he just made no effort, and clr xc.
Next event 37 dressage 8fts sj clr xc and this weekend 43 dressage and 16flts sj ( i wd as i had made enough of a fool of myself)

at the beginning of the season i decided i wanted to sell him, nothing is fun about him but he's talented and deserves to do better and i want to have some fun as in 2years ill be going to uni (hopefully) and im not good enough to do anything after that. The plan was for me to have intense dressage training (ive had roughly 12 lessons in the past 3 weeks) then to sell him, i think my dad was hoping id change my mind if he started to go nicely. i wasnt expecting it to all suddenly change and for him to go out and win, but some improvement would have been good. Its also frustrating as he has gone so down hill from last year.

So if i want to sell him we will pay a professional to compete him now to sell, as every event is going worse and worse, but i dont like the thought of giving up even if its the best thing to do, also the breeder was horrible about me when we first got him and said publically that id never be able to ride him so it would sort of be proving her right.
But if we do sell him i dont know what to get, im not going to get anywhere with a good horse in 2 years so it would be a waste of money, so i think i would get something young, but then if im honest im a total show off and like to do big stuff :P I would literally do anything tohave my pony back and do totally miss him.

Sorry its a bit long and ANY advice would be appriciated.
 
From reading your post, it doesn't sound as if the problem is with the horse.....

But, having said that if you don't like him, do sell him and get something you think you click with better.
 
Get him checked out physically if youve not already, he sounds a bit like my friends horse, leapt n bucked like loon on outings, she gives him 2 syrynges of magic calmer before outing now, hes a big boy and hes like adifferent horse !
He was scoped recently and diagnosed with ulcers grade 2-3, this doesnt look like your usual stressy highly strung wiry tb type.
He is 17hands cob x warmblood and built like a mountain, we're sure the behaviour was related to the gastric problems that are now being treated.
Hope you figure it out
 
Id be the first to admit that ive caused the problems, i made mistakes when learning to ride him, when i got him i couldnt use my seat to ride him so used my hands etc instead. My problem is that now im ready to learn to ride him he doesnt let me, if you make a mistake on him he switches off (hes a trakehner) im asking for any advice, like im not sure if i should forget about this season and just have training and hope we come out the other side, but if we dont the horse will be 9 and would have done pretty much nothing, so his talent would also be wasted and well i would have had 3 years of struggling. But out of everyone thats competed him ive done the best with him, so if we sell him someone else will take a while to learn to ride him and he could be wasted anyway. He is a very talented horse and deserves to do well, hence i dont know whats best for him..
 
To me it sounds like you have given up/lost interest in him...... If this is the case give yourselves both a break and sell him.

TBH if doesn't matter how much talent/potential a horse has if he can't or won't use it.
 
I second the getting him checked out as things seem to be going down hill, esp the saddle. Failing that do you think the horse could be picking up on your negative vibes. They are so sensitive and if you are feeling disapointed/fed up could be why.

Alternatively does he just need a rest? Difficult to tell the time line from your thread but seems like he has done a lot recently, might like to chill for a while. If you do decide to sell dont worry about proving people right or wrong, it realy doesnt matter. What you want is a combination of horse and rider that are 'both' happy and having fun. Some horse and riders just dont click. Its not neccesarily that either of you are 'good' or 'bad.

Good luck whatever you decide.
 
Thankyou for your advice
he's not done that much competing wise recently last weekend was his first event since the end of may but he has done well sj since then, hence why i was so dissapointed with his SJ at the weekend

He had a new dressage saddle this year as his old one had been hurting his back (which he was wearing when he was going well) according to the back lady his back has totally loosened up now, he saddles were checked yesterday and were both fine.

He has always been a tight horse but his neck has gone from being v.v.v.v.v.v.v tight when we bought him to v.v tight which she was very impressed with

Im split between owing it to the horse to put as much time and effort as possible to try and sort him out or accepting im the one thats caused everything as selling him asap to stop anymore problems developing
 
Obviously if all medical routes have been explored, it just sounds as if you two really just don't work.

I think because you are unmotivated and don't particularly enjoy the horse, he picks up on it and just won't perform. I imagine every time you ride probably feels like a bit of a chore, and it hardly conveys the right message to motivate him. I know from my own horse, if I am off and in a funny mood, he just won't perform, he goes round in a stupid giraffe trot and won't soften, I usually have to get off and take a moment to regain myself lol, then get back on and start a fresh.

If you want to keep him, you need to forget about what has happened and go in with a fresh head and thinking positive, because of the problems established already, it won't be a quick fix. You need and instructor that understands what you want to gain from having lessons, and you need to explain fully where you want to get to. No point in having lessons if you don't achieve what you want from them. Unfortunately they don't come readymade for our requirements. Sounds like that you had a fab pony who was easy for you to ride, then you took a massive leap to this fella and you just weren't ready/prepared for him.

If you're not prepared to work at it, you are better off to cut your losses and find someone that will gel with him and getting working nicely then sell him on to someone who can deal with him.

Good luck with whatever you decide x
 
pixiebee said:
dont think the horse is the problem to be honest, sounds like he is bored hence not 'trying'. Do him a favour and sell him to someone who will appreciate him.
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i do appriciate him, im unsure if im good enough to work through the problems, how would you make him more interested?
Ive not got a big enough ego to pretend like everything is fine and im going to be able to sort it out, hence me having as many lessons as i can to try and get through it.

I wouldnt be asking for advice if i didnt want whats best for him
 
You say he was difficult when you got him and had been with pro riders.
Probably not the horse for a rider coming off a pony!
However you seem to have made progress with him and now hit a bad patch.
Instead of sending him to a pro to sell/ride could he go with you as the rider ?He could stay in a professional yard and you could have some serious coaching for a few weeks. If its still not going any where he could then stay and be put up for sale.
 
thankyou, im prepared to put as much time and effort in as i need to, but becasue i dont know what to do all the time i make mistakes, then he switches off (hence the intense dressage lessons). im not expecting it to suddenly come right and know it will take a long time, but if im not experienced enough to work through the problems spending another year on it is going to mean both of us have taken 10 steps backwards. i am one for taking on a challenge, but dont want to ruin the horse for the sake of my ego..
 
be positive said:
You say he was difficult when you got him and had been with pro riders.
Probably not the horse for a rider coming off a pony!
However you seem to have made progress with him and now hit a bad patch.
Instead of sending him to a pro to sell/ride could he go with you as the rider ?He could stay in a professional yard and you could have some serious coaching for a few weeks. If its still not going any where he could then stay and be put up for sale.
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Thats what ive said! but the person we bought him off did a very good job of producing him to make him seem easy and fed us a story of how awful the pro he bought im off was

That is something we are trying to set up with ruth edge as she has trakehners and we know exactly who we would send him to to sell ;)
 
It might be worth getting some sports phsychology sessions - you sound as if you've plateaued, lost motivation and dug yourself into a bit of a hole. But actually your results aren't that bad. You keep repeating that everyone has told you he is a difficult horse and you wouldn't do well on him, when in actual fact you are competing him successfully, you are just not winning.

It all also sounds very intense and not much fun. So change something major. Have a break, or concentrate on your strengths (double clear at Foxhunter is amazing).

Also consider what you would get to replace him. It takes years to build a partnership with a horse, unless you buy a real ready made schoolmaster, but is your budget up to that? And even then things can go wrong, and you might be thinking you are doing worse than his previous rider, etc..
 
Mithras said:
It might be worth getting some sports phsychology sessions - you sound as if you've plateaued, lost motivation and dug yourself into a bit of a hole. But actually your results aren't that bad. You keep repeating that everyone has told you he is a difficult horse and you wouldn't do well on him, when in actual fact you are competing him successfully, you are just not winning.

It all also sounds very intense and not much fun. So change something major. Have a break, or concentrate on your strengths (double clear at Foxhunter is amazing).

Also consider what you would get to replace him. It takes years to build a partnership with a horse, unless you buy a real ready made schoolmaster, but is your budget up to that? And even then things can go wrong, and you might be thinking you are doing worse than his previous rider, etc..
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Its not something ive ever looked into but will definetly consider it :)

I dont want to just avoid the problem, and anyway his SJ will definetly be affected if his dressage goes downhill

tbh im not really interested in a ready made horse, im not saying im an amzing rider but i have enough experienced people around me to hep me out with whatever i get, if i get something else i will be far more wary of temperent over talent :)
 
I think this post might have got you some more advice in competition riders, for future reference!

I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on you - what you're experiencing is pretty common in people who come off successful pony trials ponies and move on to horses from what little I have seen.

You're almost stuck - you are used to being successful, doing big tracks and basically being a big fish in a small pond. Now you've moved on to horses, which in general are less forgiving, and you're a small fish in an enormous pond! Don't underestimate the financial backing and hours of training behind those (few) riders who seem to make the transition from ponies to horses seamlessly - I'm talking 4 lessons a week + in some cases, on a range of horses.

I think you need to regroup and take stock here. Firstly, your horse didn't do brilliantly (by the sounds of it) with a professional. With all due respect, you don't have half the experience of a professional, so you can't expect to do better - though that's not to say you can't do better, lots of horses thrive in a different setting - just that the expectations you are putting on yourself are unrealistic. Take the pressure off by accepting that it is actually ok that you aren't setting the world alight (easier said than done when you are competitive, I know!).

Secondly - your trainer - how long have you trained with them for, and what is their track record of taking people from ponies to horses? IMO it's a reasonably specialist skill for all kinds of reasons, so finding someone who has done it before might be a way forward. I think you probably need to have a chat with your parents and agree that you need some consistency regardless of what your sister is doing.

Now in terms of 'not getting anywhere in 2 years on a good horse' - well that depends on what your definition of 'not getting anywhere' is. If 'getting somewhere' is doing Junior trials, maybe that is unrealistic. But how about if we shift the goal posts - an older schoolmaster who will give you your first taste of advanced isn't unrealistic in two years - and gives you something to aim for. Does that make you want to keep or sell your current horse more than the thought that even if you did sell him you wouldn't make the teams?

At the end of the day it is supposed to be fun, and your parents must be spending a small fortune on you not having fun. I sent my horse away to be sold last year because I wasn't having fun, and no doubt many of the posters on this thread would say the problem was me and not the horse - fine, but at the end of the day, me battling on didn't make it any more fun for either of us! As it happens, I kept the horse and have had great fun this season - but I've had to revise my expectations a huge amount - not easy to do.

There's no shame in admitting you'd be having more fun on a different horse, in a different discipline or just generally doing something else. No-one can tell you what the answer is - but you know what they say - if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got.
 
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amymay said:
What does he do for fun and relaxation?

Does he hack out - get galloped - hunted???
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hacked out atleast once a week, rarely taken to specifically gallop as ground is never good enough
and his brain cant cope with xc start box let alone hunting

i dont know how much you know about trakehners, but they are basically like tb but with half the brain capacity and 10x easier to wind up..
 
fair said:
hacked out atleast once a week, rarely taken to specifically gallop as ground is never good enough
and his brain cant cope with xc start box let alone hunting

i dont know how much you know about trakehners, but they are basically like tb but with half the brain capacity and 10x easier to wind up..
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So not much fun to be had then.

Why not take some of the pressure off both of you. Go out and have some fun and learn to enjoy each other.
 
If you can get to Ruth Edge for a while she would be able to assess you and the horse and give a realistic opinion,she is a very experienced rider and time with her would be invaluable whatever you decide to do.
Trakehners can be very tricky to ride and some of the pros avoid them.
Dont feel guilty if you do decide to sell ,just get something lower maintenance next time that you can enjoy while you do your exams.
 
amymay said:
So not much fun to be had then.

Why not take some of the pressure off both of you. Go out and have some fun and learn to enjoy each other.
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Not sure why you think a varied selection of jumping/XC/dressage/lessons/hacking/competing isn't 'fun' for a horse?!

Mine has never been to the gallops in his life, though does canter out on hacks once a month or so when I do the hack that has somewhere to canter, gets hacked once a week....if I can face it.....and in between goes eventing, to SJ lessons, to dressage lessons, and does various unaff comps in between the eventing. That's a pretty varied approach, and one most eventers I know take - what the OP is describing is not an uncommon way of keeping an event horse, so the OP shouldn't feel like she is doing something 'wrong'.
 
Totally echo SpottedCat and think a number of the posters on here have been unnecessarily harsh.

It is horrible when you put so much effort in and, for whatever reason, it isn't working- imo, it doesn't really matter whether it is the horse or you if neither of you are having fun and you sound like you blame yourself enough without needing others to have a dig!

I would recommend finding a really super trainer (harder than you think!) and sticking with it for a bit as the problems don't sound *too* big or unfixable.

Perhaps pop a post in the Competition Riders section with what area of the country you are in and people may be able to recommend a good trainer?

Good luck, I went through exactly the same thoughts a couple of months ago and my horse and I are now concentrating on BD instead of BE and my youngster is at my trainer's, ready to get cracking next season! :)
 
SpottedCat said:
I think this post might have got you some more advice in competition riders, for future reference!

I think people are being unnecessarily harsh on you - what you're experiencing is pretty common in people who come off successful pony trials ponies and move on to horses from what little I have seen.

You're almost stuck - you are used to being successful, doing big tracks and basically being a big fish in a small pond. Now you've moved on to horses, which in general are less forgiving, and you're a small fish in an enormous pond! Don't underestimate the financial backing and hours of training behind those (few) riders who seem to make the transition from ponies to horses seamlessly - I'm talking 4 lessons a week + in some cases, on a range of horses.

I think you need to regroup and take stock here. Firstly, your horse didn't do brilliantly (by the sounds of it) with a professional. With all due respect, you don't have half the experience of a professional, so you can't expect to do better - though that's not to say you can't do better, lots of horses thrive in a different setting - just that the expectations you are putting on yourself are unrealistic. Take the pressure off by accepting that it is actually ok that you aren't setting the world alight (easier said than done when you are competitive, I know!).

Secondly - your trainer - how long have you trained with them for, and what is their track record of taking people from ponies to horses? IMO it's a reasonably specialist skill for all kinds of reasons, so finding someone who has done it before might be a way forward. I think you probably need to have a chat with your parents and agree that you need some consistency regardless of what your sister is doing.

Now in terms of 'not getting anywhere in 2 years on a good horse' - well that depends on what your definition of 'not getting anywhere' is. If 'getting somewhere' is doing Junior trials, maybe that is unrealistic. But how about if we shift the goal posts - an older schoolmaster who will give you your first taste of advanced isn't unrealistic in two years - and gives you something to aim for. Does that make you want to keep or sell your current horse more than the thought that even if you did sell him you wouldn't make the teams?

At the end of the day it is supposed to be fun, and your parents must be spending a small fortune on you not having fun. I sent my horse away to be sold last year because I wasn't having fun, and no doubt many of the posters on this thread would say the problem was me and not the horse - fine, but at the end of the day, me battling on didn't make it any more fun for either of us! As it happens, I kept the horse hand have had great fun this season - but I've had to revise my expectations a huge amount - not easy to do.

There's no shame in admitting you'd be having more fun on a different horse, in a different discipline or just generally doing something else. No-one can tell you what the answer is - but you know what they say - if you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got.
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thankyou! i think some people dont realise im admitting that ive caused the problems. im not sure if im good enough to get through them.

its more that hes getting worse than not going well, also because of who i am and who i know lots of people expect that the horse costs loads and i cant be bothered to learn to ride it.

i have a very one trainer that comes every month who ive used for over 6 months and another that ive started using recently that im having as many lessons as i can fit in with her (atleast 2 a week)

My pony wasnt particularly successful but i took him from a 6yr old that had done nothing to a 7yr old that went dc in his first 2 novices.

well ive tried to point out to my dad that hes wasting loads of money and i think hes now starting to see.

well i would compete to have fun but because im a competitive person im having fun when im doing well. that doesnt mean i only have fun when im successful, but i doint have fun when ive done awfully!
 
Not sure why you think a varied selection of jumping/XC/dressage/lessons/hacking/competing isn't 'fun' for a horse?!
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Sorry, you misunderstand me. I'm coming from the angle that perhaps the partnership isn't working well at the moment, and they could be stuck in a rut of training and competition without either really enjoying it at the moment.

I'm very aware of how competition horses are kept - and the professionals I know do actually have their horses out hacking and hunting (keeping them fresh and interested).

Taking the foot of the pedal and introducing other activities can work wonders - so why not consider it?
 
It may be a routine for a event horse not to be out hacking or doing 'fun' stuff but it sounds like this horse is bored and maybe needs time out away from being made to event and showjump most weekends. Maybe just a break is all he needs just being taken out hacking for a while instead of being schooled and jumped. Sounds like you'll be okay with him though if you give him a chance :)
 
SpottedCat said:
Not sure why you think a varied selection of jumping/XC/dressage/lessons/hacking/competing isn't 'fun' for a horse?!

Mine has never been to the gallops in his life, though does canter out on hacks once a month or so when I do the hack that has somewhere to canter, gets hacked once a week....if I can face it.....and in between goes eventing, to SJ lessons, to dressage lessons, and does various unaff comps in between the eventing. That's a pretty varied approach, and one most eventers I know take - what the OP is describing is not an uncommon way of keeping an event horse, so the OP shouldn't feel like she is doing something 'wrong'.
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ditto this!!! Soooo many people on this forum seem so ready to jump on people for asking for help. :confused:

Maybe he's picking up on your negative vibes and that's transfering into his work - maybe he's worried as he may be able to sense that you're not happy with him so lacks commitment himself?

Maybe you could try some relaxing therapies or maybe box him up and go for an adventure together and discover some new places with a friend? Somewhere where you could feel safe letting him lollop about on the buckle. Something specifically for him and you to just enjoy without the pressure of competition.

I guess if he's been competed for such a long time, maybe it's time for a little holiday or a break from the hard stuff! :)

Hope you work it out though, must be a tough decision.
 
amymay said:
Sorry, you misunderstand me. I'm coming from the angle that perhaps the partnership isn't working well at the moment, and they could be stuck in a rut of training and competition without either really enjoying it at the moment.

I'm very aware of how competition horses are kept - and the professionals I know do actually have their horses out hacking and hunting (keeping them fresh and interested).

Taking the foot of the pedal and introducing other activities can work wonders - so why not consider it?
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i would love to hunt him! but he's not got the right brain for it at all and tbh hes too valuable to risk an injury whilst out hunting.
If you have any other suggestions on how to make it more fun for him i will welcome them, but that is half the problem i have, he is a VERY excitable horse and does struggle to contain himself
 
millitiger said:
Totally echo SpottedCat and think a number of the posters on here have been unnecessarily harsh.

It is horrible when you put so much effort in and, for whatever reason, it isn't working- imo, it doesn't really matter whether it is the horse or you if neither of you are having fun and you sound like you blame yourself enough without needing others to have a dig!

I would recommend finding a really super trainer (harder than you think!) and sticking with it for a bit as the problems don't sound *too* big or unfixable.

Perhaps pop a post in the Competition Riders section with what area of the country you are in and people may be able to recommend a good trainer?

Good luck, I went through exactly the same thoughts a couple of months ago and my horse and I are now concentrating on BD instead of BE and my youngster is at my trainer's, ready to get cracking next season! :)
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I think this is so true. It is difficult to find that one trainer who will help you solve the problems - but when you do it is a revelation.

I also completely empathise with the 'not having fun when doing awfully' feeling - I am the same. I was happy enough for the first two seasons because I was moving up through the grades, took my horse from a 5yo with neither of us ever having evented to doing Novice without discracing ourselves in 2 seasons. Then had a major blip, and it all stopped being fun. New trainer, new approach, more lessons, and whilst I am not spectacularly more successful, I do pick up rosettes more than I used to, and I am having fun again. There are a lot of people who are/have been in the same boat. It is difficult, but the people who you think are judging you need to be deleted from FB and you need to surround yourself with people who have faith in you even when you do not - which is why the person I train with has been so successful with helping me. I believed in her, and she believed in me, so even though I had no faith in myself or my own abilities, it didn't matter.
 
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