Opinions please

[moscow_mule]

Long story short. I took my dog to the vet yesterday , he examined her( we were not allowed into the surgery...thanks covid) and said that there are 3 things going on. She has mastitis, open pyometra and mammary tumours. The vet wants to spey her tomorrow and possibly do a mammary strip, he didn't say if it would be one or both sides. She is a nine year old gsd who is also showing signs of DM.
So my question is would you put her through the surgery and probably long recovery ? She is on strong antibiotics and metacalm and is "comfortable" at the moment.
My head is in a spin, I'm all for quality of life over quantity.
Thanks for any replies.

 

[Britestar]

The pyo needs dealt with regardless. Maybe ask for that to be done and not the strip. Depends on how bad the tumours are.

 

[Roxylola]

For me, you need to sort the pyo out theres no option but surgery for that. While shes under, may as well do the other. She'll have to have the op or be put to sleep or die suffering so why not sort it all at same time.

 

[meleeka]

You can have her pts now or have the surgery but please don’t let this go on for any longer than necessary or she’s likely to be suffering. If it were my dog at 9 I’d opt for surgery. Speying her will reduce her risk of mammory tumours too.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would have wanted the pyo done today as an emergency and have asked for the rest to be done at the same time. She is only 9 and GSDs can live a good bit longer than that. IME it doesn't take long for them to get over the op, really.

 

[Aru]

I would either do surgery or euthanise at this point.
Leaving her as she is not a good option as all of those issues will either worsen or repeat next season as pyos and mammary tumours are influenced by the hormone surges that accompany seasons...
Removing the mastitis and tumours will reduce pain in the longterm
Removing the uterus full of pus will help her feel better as well.
She's going to be feeling like crap on medication alone as her bodies trying to fight to two severe infections at once. Surgery gets a much quicker resolution.

She should get good pain relief during and after surgery and in 2 weeks will be pretty much healed if all goes well.

 

[MurphysMinder]

As others have said, you can't just leave this, though I know some breeding bitches are treated with ABs for pyo. I would go ahead with the surgery, 9 is not old, though I know you say she is showing signs of DM. I had a 10 year old bitch have a full mammary strip , she made a full recovery though sadly I did lose her to pyo couple of years later. My 12 year old had surgery last month to remove a mammary lump, thankfully benign, she was back to normal in a couple of weeks.

 

[{97702}]

What on earth was your vet thinking of, leaving it for 2 days before he/she operated on the pyo? I’d get her operated on ASAP and do the whole lot at the same time personally, good luck ?

 

[maggie62]

The pyometra is an emergency.....all the toxins going round the body is very dangerous and life threatening so needs done now. My labrador had a mammary strip.... major op too took her a while to recover.

 

[moscow_mule]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry I probably wasn't clear in my post, not having surgery is not an option. She will be getting speyed, and I agree doing both procedures at the same time is sensible. I to was surprised when he said to bring her back Thurs or Fri as I always thought pyo was an emergency, but he is a qualified vet I'm not, just following his advice.
She is booked in for 08.45 in the morning and will have a good chat with the vet before she goes in.
To say I'm bricking it is an understatement.

 

[Follysmum]

I nearly lost a dog with pyrometer as my first vet missed the signs and fobbed me off. I knew she wasn’t right so wouldn’t leave the surgery until another vet looked at her. Next vet said she needed surgery ASAP

 

[SusieT]

It is a shame you didnt have her spayed when younger to avoid this - however now she has these issues - I assume the tumours are not brand new? Have you discussed all pros and cons with vet over the phone even if not allowed in?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would take the dog to vet again, either today or tomorrow and insist that pyo is an emergency and needs to be treated as such. Waiting for 2 days could cost your dog her life.

There are pros and cons for spaying bitches at varying ages, I certainly don't/won't routinely spay young bitches.

 

[meleeka]

I would take the dog to vet again, either today or tomorrow and insist that pyo is an emergency and needs to be treated as such. Waiting for 2 days could cost your dog her life.

There are pros and cons for spaying bitches at varying ages, I certainly don't/won't routinely spay young bitches.

Without wishing to open a hornets nest, what are the cons?

 

[AmyMay]

Without wishing to open a hornets nest, what are the cons?

I’d be interested to know too.

 

[Clodagh]

No one can think of any cons?
I have mainly spayed bitches and eventually they will all be done but.
1. It's hard to breed from a spayed bitch.
2. They look better entire.
3. They can get incontinence from spaying.
4. Spaying young, as thankfully is less recommended now, can cause lots of problems.

PAS did say at various ages.

 

[AmyMay]

How do they look better entire?

 

[Roxylola]

Coat changes in some breeds with neutering. Potential for weight gain

 

[Clodagh]

How do they look better entire?

They don't get the pelt around the shoulders and overall longer coat, they just age better, hard to explain.

I understand from your post that you are opposed to non spaying, but it is everyones choice with their own dog.

 

[{97702}]

I've had spayed bitches for 30 years now - never had any desire to breed, they look just as good spayed as they do entire (my trainer only remarked tonight that Millie is in perfect physical condition), never had an incontinent bitch, never had a bitch with any problems due to spaying.

Now someone will say I am lucky (same as they always do on the rescue posts lol) but I think 8 bitches is a reasonable sample size (as well as all the ones my mum has had - lost count of those!)

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Without wishing to open a hornets nest, what are the cons?

There is a whole thread about it on this board. One that hasn't been mentioned above is that it can cause some breeds to be more likely to get malignant tumours, some bitches suffer hormone related illnesses.

 

[Roxylola]

I've had spayed bitches for 30 years now - never had any desire to breed, they look just as good spayed as they do entire (my trainer only remarked tonight that Millie is in perfect physical condition), never had an incontinent bitch, never had a bitch with any problems due to spaying.

Now someone will say I am lucky (same as they always do on the rescue posts lol) but I think 8 bitches is a reasonable sample size (as well as all the ones my mum has had - lost count of those!)

I'm pro spay, but my spaniels coat has definitely gone woolly since she was spayed. She was done at 6 so no other reason for a change.
Juvenile spays often result in dogs being mentally puppyish and growing over long legs etc as well (according to research but not something I've experience of)

 

[Clodagh]

I’ve never had any problems either (bar finding I’ve got an amazing bitch and can’t have a litter, which is no biggie to me).
But I do think people should be allowed to make their own decisions and to some mutilation of a dog for convenience is equally unacceptable.

 

[Clodagh]

There is a whole thread about it on this board.

I did think here we go again! I’m very much of the what suits the individual nowadays.

 

[{97702}]

I'm pro spay, but my spaniels coat has definitely gone woolly since she was spayed. She was done at 6 so no other reason for a change.
Juvenile spays often result in dogs being mentally puppyish and growing over long legs etc as well (according to research but not something I've experience of)

My mum has spaniels and I have to say I've noticed coat change in her breed as they have aged whether they are spayed/castrated or not? That might just because I am used to sighthounds who are sleek and gorgeous whatever

Absolutely never experienced any change in temperament or conformation due to spaying but then for that purpose my sample size is small Rescue dogs are generally done later in life, particularly greyhounds off the track for obvious reasons.

 

[TheresaW]

We had both Luna and Bo neutered. Probably for our own convenience If honest, but we had no intention of breeding anyway. Luna was 16 months, had to work it around her seasons. Would have liked her to be 18 months or older, but 2 seasons were enough to deal with.

Bo was 4 when we got him and entire. We probably would have neutered him anyway, but as he is so reactive on lead (absolutely fine off), made sense to get him done, especially as there are a couple of entire bitches at the horses.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Had a GSD emergency spayed due to pyo at similar age and she lived to 14. Needs done ASAP. Doing it again I'd do 7-8yo.
I do know one spayed GSD female with a shit coat but they never brush her so....

 

[FinnishLapphund]

According to what I've read, in general, closed pyometras where the pus can't leak out due to a closed cervix is more acute, than an open pyometra where the pus can leak out. Not sure if that is correct, but I thought it made sense when I read it.
Also not sure if it is tomorrow or on Friday that you're taking her in for surgery, but whenever it is, I hope it goes well.

{{{{{{Vibes}}}}}}

Otherwise regarding spaying I can only say that after having lived with 1 bitch who had incontinence problems for several years, I'm unlikely to spay my bitches before it is necessary.

 

[GSD Woman]

I agree with the do the surgery, preferably both at the same time, or else euthanize.
I spay my bitches (n=4). My first was 9 months, the second 8 years, the third 5 or 6 and the last 15 months. I worry a lot about pyo so I spay. I won't do pediatric spays because I don't believe it is better for my girls.

 

[meleeka]

I agree with the do the surgery, preferably both at the same time, or else euthanize.
I spay my bitches (n=4). My first was 9 months, the second 8 years, the third 5 or 6 and the last 15 months. I worry a lot about pyo so I spay. I won't do pediatric spays because I don't believe it is better for my girls.

This is my thoughts too. I’d rather have an incontinent bitch than the constant worry of pyo. I personally only know of one that has lived to old age without getting it (and only one that was slightly incontinent after speying) and an emergency surgery is not something I want to have to go through.