Opinions wanted on hooves

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Equi

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This is my 18yo 15.1 heinz. He has fir the first time in his life got a bout of laminitius, which is not surprising given his weight (his "owner" has never cared much for dieting and i'm now the fortunate loaner who has to deal with it)

I have had 3 different farriers in my time, one said he didn't want to do him anymore cause he was too old (the farrier not the horse :p) the other was a new kid on the scene, very good but impossible to get when needed, the one i'm on now has been around the block a bit but seems in general okay.

My main worry is the heels, he doesn't have much. He is footy on the fore atm but its due to the lami, it got better but hit him again today when he had been on grass, muzzled, for a few hours. No more grass. But he is and has been lame on the right fore for some time now. The vet couldn't find anything physically, the chiro said he was stiff on that side and when he done his thing i'm happy to say the horse came sound for a while and when he was sound i had a saddle fitter give the ok for his saddle. I rode twice and he was lame again, and my riding includes a walk to the end of the road which is 1/2 a mile away and back. I'm going to try the back man again and try to work up to riding more gradually but if it is heel related (as in he is using his body to compensate for pain in the heels) then that is what needs sorted first.

I#'ve never dealt with lami before, so any advice appreciated. I don't know what to feed or how much or what to avoid etc...

Bare with me:

Right fore
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Right back
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Left back
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Left fore
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Both backs
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both fronts
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standing
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The main thing that catches my eye is the way that he's standing in the side on photo - like a less dramatic version of an elephant on a ball. He's got both his fore legs and hind legs under him. I've seen that stance due to two main things, 1) the horse has sore heels on the fore hooves and 2) the horse has laminitis in the hinds and is trying to take the weight off the toes on the hind hooves.
 
Can you get the owner to have him tested for Cushings and EMS. Having a first episode of laminitis at 18 is a likely indicator that he has one or both of those.
His feet don't look too bad though a good scrub out and check for thrush wouldn't go amiss. I'd concentrate on getting him on a very low sugar diet for a while. Take him off all grass and put him on soaked hay for the time being. The way he is standing is an indication of foot pain.
 
Thanks guys, never thought of cushings. He had no winter coat last year even though he was out so i did think that was a little odd. as for the stance, yes now that you mention it it makes sense. I will have a test.
 
victoria1980x said:
agree re the cushings testing , "Talk about laminitis" are offering free testing vouchers...

http://www.talkaboutlaminitis.co.uk/certificate-form/
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Me too. .It doesn't look like a major problem with the heels and they don't look too short to me. It may be worth asking the owner to check with the vet if an X Ray of that hoof is worth a shot with recurrent laminitis. Have you tried pads (or boots) on the fronts to see if that helps his soundness? I agree re a good scrub and check for thrush as well.

That stance is often due to LGL so diet is something to look at, especially sugar (grass) and mineral intake. Here's a good site. http://www.thelaminitissite.org/
 
Im the loaner, the owner is not taking anything to do with it. I've not tried him with any sort of boots, how could i with little cost? Hes kinda stuck with me because his owner can't have him back..
 
I think Cavallo front boots would be fine, but wait a while till other things are sorted, diet for one is essential, did anyone mention minerals?
Pro Earth or Forageplus and others, I also think micronised linseed helps health of skin, joint etc.

Your plan is to get him sound at the moment rather than get him hacking, if sound he may not need boots.
 
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I usualy have him on a small cup of spillers lite

this is him exactly a year ago, give or take a few days.
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His feet are compromised, so even more essential he gets a full -on mineral supplemented diet, the vet will advise on general day to day management but basically you need to increase fibre and reduce sugars.
phone one of the companies who specialise in minerals, pro earth, forageplus, equimins, feedmark.
 
What weight do you reckon he should be? 15.1 and hes not lightweight but not particularly heavy either. I need to start weighing his hay.
 
Here are some updated photos of the hooves scrubbed, the RF has a weird lip on the frog i don't like.

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RB
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LB
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LF
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He is very reluctant to extend the right back leg. I have videos of him walking today if anyone wants to PM to see them, rather not have them on the public forum.
 
It is fine to come on here to ask for a bit of support, but basically you need someone on site to advise, he needs a veterinary examination and go from there, there are so many ways to help the horse, but he needs a diagnosis first.

If he is stabled that means he has less opportunity to exercise. If out on lush grass he may suffer laminitis,
Horses needs trickle feeding, by which I mean he should not be standing for 12 hours with nothing to eat, that is basic horse care.
Have you sorted out his minerals yet, I don't mean to sound pedantic, one of the things you need to do is to add minerals to his daily diet.

Taking on someone else's horse is a difficult thing, we don't know that the owner has not essentially just abandoned the horse because you have come along and are willing to take over the care, but the costs can be high and the rewards may be few, you need to think about this. What is going to happen if you can't afford to keep the horse?

You ask how much hay: how often is he to be fed, is the hay to be soaked, is it free of dust, does he need to lose weight, does he need to maintain weight, are his teeth in good condition, can he chew the hay, all these things need to be considered.

To sum up, this horse needs a vet.
Stop taking photos, do something.
 
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Hes had a vet, if you read my first post. There is nothing he can see is causing the lameness with the body, which is why were onto hooves. He is fed spillers lite balancer, which i believe is a mineral/vitamin feed suitable. Hes on bare ground so not standing still and still being able to eat the little bit of grass that grows now and then, but how am i supposed to know what his weight is supposed to be when i have only had him as fat? His owner doesn't want to do anything, she doesn't believe he is lame but she wouldn't know as shes not seen him for years. I tried to give him back several times but i get ignored, so i'm looking after a horse i have NO benefit from out of my own kindness. I already struggle financially as i have my own horse to look after and focus on. So thanks for the summery of all the questions ive already answered/asked, now can we move on to the answers of those i need to know?
 
The frog on the front right looks infected and there is a very deep central sulcus which may also be infected. That flappy bit is just shedding frog.
 
equi said:
Hes had a vet, if you read my first post. There is nothing he can see is causing the lameness with the body, which is why were onto hooves. He is fed spillers lite balancer, which i believe is a mineral/vitamin feed suitable. Hes on bare ground so not standing still and still being able to eat the little bit of grass that grows now and then, but how am i supposed to know what his weight is supposed to be when i have only had him as fat? His owner doesn't want to do anything, she doesn't believe he is lame but she wouldn't know as shes not seen him for years. I tried to give him back several times but i get ignored, so i'm looking after a horse i have NO benefit from out of my own kindness. I already struggle financially as i have my own horse to look after and focus on. So thanks for the summery of all the questions ive already answered/asked, now can we move on to the answers of those i need to know?
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Get another vet, a vet who does not know what is wrong is the wrong vet.

There is no answer to your question.............. do you want someone to say he should be 500kgs.

A horse which is lame needs veterinary attention.

You think you are doing the right thing, I do not agree, I am concerned that a horse which is in pain is not getting veterinary treatment. It is not a kindness to the horse, such a horse may need expensive veterinary treatment and if you cannot pay for this then please find another route. If you take on the responsibility as the keeper you take on responsibility for its welfare.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/contents
 
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To my eye there's a definite difference in the crest in the two photos of him I would be getting him a cushings test.
 
MrsD123 said:
To sum up, this horse needs a vet.
Stop taking photos, do something.
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How blimmin rude, if you read the OP's first post properly you'd see she'd done just that. You've effectively managed to type a paragraph of non-helpful advice.

OP, I'm sorry your horse is lame. Did you get him tested for Cushings? His white line looks stretched and isn't tight and healthy like it should be, it might be worth tweaking his diet. Pro-balance from progressive earth is a good place to start, along with a small amount of micronised linseed so as not to add calories but it is very good for the hooves. Try feed him this in the lowest sugar feed you can, like a bit of speedi beet or hi fi molasses free chop. I would be giving him soaked hay as he is overweight and making sure he is not on any gras as he had lami and try get some cavallo boots to walk him out in to get things moving. There is a site on fb called 'hoof boots for sale or exchange uk' where you might be able to pick up some cheaper second hand ones.
 
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Low sugar diet and a Cushings/EMS test is the way to go to start off. You can see from that picture of the side on view that he is probably lame to some extent in all 4 feet. At 18 and with laminitis for the first time it is very likely that Cushings and/or EMS is involved. Treating these and keeping on a correct diet will be the way to get him sound. Don't spend money on back people/chiropractors/and other type of therapists until this is investigated. Soak his hay and keep him eating that through a double netted haynet or similar to get him a low sugar source of fibre going through his system.
 
MrsD123 said:
I am concerned that a horse which is in pain is not getting veterinary treatment.
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I don't WANT to assume care of him, i don't WANT the horse, but i'm trying to in as cheap as way as possible, because its my money, get him sound enough to at least walk aboutm because i have too much conscience. I could just chuck him out and abandon him myself, would that be suitable?



To others: I have the form for the cushings test filled, just need bloods now which i will have to borrow a trailer for and ill try once again to get the owner to cough any money up but it will be ignored.

I tried padding the feet out with tissue (so it is like a boot and he can't feel anything) he was if anything worse. But they didn't last very long Lol
 
equi said:
I don't WANT to assume care of him, i don't WANT the horse, but i'm trying to in as cheap as way as possible, because its my money, get him sound enough to at least walk aboutm because i have too much conscience. I could just chuck him out and abandon him myself, would that be suitable?
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OK, there are several points here, if the owner has not provided veterinary care he can be reported to the RSPCA.

If you need advice you can ask the local BHS Welfare Officer or the WHW officer. Their advice is bound to be more relevant as they will see what is happening.

If you want to take over responsibility, do you not need the owners approval to do so? is the vet aware that he is treating a horse owned by someone else, or do you have the horse on loan / who has the passport.
These are legalities, but they are important.
I have said enough, but if you need help you need to ask for it, I am more concerned for the horse. Horses are very expensive and if they need veterinary attention then someone has to pay for it.

The current regime has resulted in a horse which needs treatment including a good diet and good management. There are only so many economies. If you pm me your address I will post you six weeks supply of minerals and a full diet sheet.
 
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We don't have RSPCA here and our equivalent doesn't do anything. I had him on loan, but have been trying for the best part of a year to NOT have him on loan, the owner won't take him back.

I'm well aware of the costs, i have had horses longer than i care to remember. I can't afford this one on top of my own, which is why i wanted to give it back.

Now if we are done with the moral condemnations...?
 
huh. finally got a reply, apparently owner will take him to a field. I won't hold my breath, have heard that one a few times.
 
Oh Equi, what a tough situation to be in.

I think the cushings test is wise. Also continue to treat him as a laminitic and treat the possible thrush as it can be very painful.
 
Horrid situation and it doesn't bode well sadly as field turnout may not be best at this stage.

The farrier should have picked up on thrush but many people don't recognize it and I, at the other extreme, see it everywhere! lol Here's an article for info. It's the deep central cleft and the yellowy/mushroomy coloured looking frog, with black around the frog and hoof that make me suspect thrush.
http://healthyhoof.com/articles/Thrush/Thrush.php

ps. I'd treat the left front as well. The front frogs should look more like the hind ones, a dip in the centre of the frog instead of a deep cleft tracking down between the bulbs.
 
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Ive said about the restricted grazing, she thinks he needs to roam or he gets angry. Can't tell some people unfortunately. But what i will do is attempt to find him some very small terrible grazing..

My neighbour sprayed my field after it was topped (not sure why..seems a bit pointless?!) so i have no field at the mo which is a handy bargining point, not that he needs a field lol

Gonna look more into thrush, thank you amanda.
 
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