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ILuvCowparsely

ILuvCowparsely

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One of my livery horses has gradually not been eating all his feed - been eating his hay though lying down a lot in the field(2 -3 per day I noticed.)


Since changing into the resting field I noticed him still doing that but more so - Yesterday when catching he was lying down but flat and when we caught him he had hunger line and tucked up behind his ribs and in his quaters.


I told owners - if mine I would call the vet as i have been worried the amount of times he lies down in the field. They did and got a text saying vet said gut ache and bring him in earlier. Oh yes he did have a light cough though he never coughed when I was feeding turning out rugging up etc.


1. how can they say that without examining horse.
2. what would be your first thoughts.

He is eating some hay but has left his dinner from last night.

My thoughts are


something internal
myopathy
tying up
liver issues


he has had wormer 5 day panacure guard month ago
good hay
good feed
good grass
teeth checked
 
At our livery yard we have to sign a contract, one of the clauses enables the YO to call the vet if they are concerned about the wellbeing of the horse (and charge the owner).

I know that does not help this time but worth considering for the future.

On this occasion you could ask to speak to the owners vet, and or insist they get the vet looks at the horse

My first thought would be something colicky, partial blockage etc .

I don't know if there are any side effects from Panacur quard, but worth looking this up
 
I doubt whether they have spoken to a vet - any vet knows "gut ache" = colic and wouldn't advise without examining the horse. Are they reluctant to afford a vet call out fee do you think? If they are failing to provide proper care (i.e. neglecting their horse) they are breaking the law, maybe you could tell them that as diplomatically as possible?
 
JillA said:
I doubt whether they have spoken to a vet - any vet knows "gut ache" = colic and wouldn't advise without examining the horse. Are they reluctant to afford a vet call out fee do you think? If they are failing to provide proper care (i.e. neglecting their horse) they are breaking the law, maybe you could tell them that as diplomatically as possible?
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they said they called the vet when here last night but waiting for the return call - that is when they texed me later last night - they did have vet up early this month for jabs - one of the owners will be up soon so I will tell him my concernes. The horse is not showing any signs of colic - it is concerning me how he looks
 
If it was just the lying down more and not eating up all the feed I would say he is full of grass and relaxed, the fact he looks tucked up suggests otherwise, for a vet to say bring in earlier as it is just gut ache seems very unlikely and a very poor response if they have actually spoken to a vet, the owners should be concerned and get a vet in to have a proper look before whatever the problem is has gone too far.
As a YO I would be very unhappy that a vet has not attended and would be insisting on one coming today, I also have an agreement that I call the vet if I feel concerned about any horse here, I will contact the owner first if it is not an emergency but do have the right to call the vet on behalf of any of the liveries at any time if I feel the need.
 
be positive said:
If it was just the lying down more and not eating up all the feed I would say he is full of grass and relaxed, the fact he looks tucked up suggests otherwise, for a vet to say bring in earlier as it is just gut ache seems very unlikely and a very poor response if they have actually spoken to a vet, the owners should be concerned and get a vet in to have a proper look before whatever the problem is has gone too far.
As a YO I would be very unhappy that a vet has not attended and would be insisting on one coming today, I also have an agreement that I call the vet if I feel concerned about any horse here, I will contact the owner first if it is not an emergency but do have the right to call the vet on behalf of any of the liveries at any time if I feel the need.
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Owner has arrived and the horse was down but now up grazing. We have a clause to *in case of emergency we call the vet* Though ours is in emergency, I have had words with the owner and expressed my concerns and said if he was mine I would call the vet especially this close to the weekend when things can go wrong and it is double monies. The owner is going to call them in a while and I have no reason to believe they did not call the vets last night as they even told me which vet they spoke too, this horse is precious to them so they would have called vet money aside.
 
Glad to see they got the vet out, was going to say a friend of mine keeps her horse in the livery yard next door to my house, I noticed her horse would lie down quite often during the day often flat out so I text her and told her about two days later he came in from the field foot sore, she got the vet out and he had laminitis unfortunately he never recovered:(
 
JillA said:
Seriously?? What kind of vet was that?
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What do you mean??

he had buscupan and another injection not food over night or this morning but went out to graze today. Seemed a lot better today and he has emptied his bladder which he could not do yesterday
 
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Intestines would absolutely not be displaced unless they had twisted, and that is generally fatal unless surgery intervenes quickly. Sounds as though he meant inflamed or in spasm, buscopan is a relaxant given when the gut is in spasm.
 
The large colon can be displaced, however it is unlikely to have corrected itself without surgical intervention. My suspicion is therefor that there was no displacement in the first place.
 
JillA said:
Intestines would absolutely not be displaced unless they had twisted, and that is generally fatal unless surgery intervenes quickly. Sounds as though he meant inflamed or in spasm, buscopan is a relaxant given when the gut is in spasm.
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Well all that matters is the horse has improved

My horse went through a serious colic and the vet could feel a displaced intestine. She tried to talk me into surgery, which I refused. Only then did she tell me about a drug (phenylephrine, I think) that would reduce the size of the spleen and possibly open up the intestinal passageway. We gave it, and within one hour the horse was fine. He is still with me years later...please advise your stable manager to inquire about this drug before making any decisions.
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sometimes a displaced intestine will work itself out but it can be a nail biting experience for someone who hasn't had it happen before.on a scale from 1-10 (ten being worst case)your horse is at about a 7 but it can quickly escalate if the intestine strangulates,that is what the fluids are for to allow the intestine to keep inflated so it doesnt strangulate.it sounds like your stable manager has been on top of the situation and has planned ahead.keep us informed on the progress.
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a displaced intestine is highly dangerous. 95% horses die from it. it all on how strong you and your horse are if it lives. i do hope he gets better. may god be with u and your horse.
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Occasionally the large intestine migrates (moves) between the spleen and the body wall becoming trapped over the NSL. Larger horses are at greater risk from this condition

Some cases will resolve with administration of analgesics (painkillers) and gentle exercise (this may be combined with the administration of a drug {phenylephrine} that shrinks the size of the spleen) helping the colon to return to its normal position.Surgery may be required if
medical treatment is not successful or if the horse is showing signs of severe pain and distension of the large intestine
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minesadouble said:
The large colon can be displaced, however it is unlikely to have corrected itself without surgical intervention. My suspicion is therefor that there was no displacement in the first place.
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Well since it was the vets arm up the horses ass doing a rectal I think she knows what she felt and reported to the owner and gave appropriate treatment and follow up care to which the horse has improved.

Quoted from University of Liverpool Equine hospital

Some cases will resolve with administration of analgesics (painkillers) and gentle exercise (this may be combined with the administration of a drug {phenylephrine} that shrinks the size of the spleen) helping the colon to return to its normal position.
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I didn't say it was impossible, merely unlikely though I accept a mild displacement is more likely to be rectified without surgical intervention.
I'm afraid I do not have the blind faith in Vets that some have. They are human and therefore fallible.
I trust my own equine specialist vet almost implicitly but some of the veterinary surgeons one or two of our liveries call out can spout some absolute tosh!
Ps I'm not saying the vet in question is one of these btw ;)
 
minesadouble said:
The large colon can be displaced, however it is unlikely to have corrected itself without surgical intervention. My suspicion is therefor that there was no displacement in the first place.
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Yes, it happened to a friends pony and resolved without surgery. She was a bit prone to colic in her later years anyway.
 
Sorry to hear about poor horse, you did all you could repeatedly expressing concerns to owner. Thank god its not contagious, sending healing vibes for poor ponio
 
Found the following information, seems it's an almost unknown area:

Researchers Review Equine Multinodular Pulmonary Fibrosis
Clinical signs of EMPF usually include weight loss and progressive respiratory disease, especially difficulty breathing.

Since it was first identified in 2007, deadly equine multinodular pulmonary fibrosis (EMPF) has been reported in numerous horses across North America and Europe. While still considered a rare disease, EMPF appears to be related to a very common one—equine herpesvirus (EHV)—and early treatment appears to be the main hope for survival.

Specifically, it’s the “gamma” herpesviruses that seem to be involved in EMPF development, explained Bianca Schwarz, PhD, DVM, Dipl. ECEIM, head of the Internal Medicine Service in the Equine Clinic of Altforweiler, Germany, and a former researcher at the Equine Clinic of the University of Vienna in Austria. There are two known gamma herpesviruses in horses: EHV-2 and EHV-5. These EHV forms often go unnoticed in horses, as the infection can be subclinical (i.e., it doesn't cause outward clinical signs). But if signs do occur, they are usually related to the respiratory tract, causing nasal discharge or breathing difficulties, and in more severe cases fever and lethargy. There is no vaccine for EHV-2 or -5.

Here's how it all ties together: In all documented EMPF cases, the affected horses have also tested positive for EHV-5, Schwarz said. And about one-third of those horses tested positive for EHV-2, as well. Schwarz says that, even so, EMPF itself cannot be considered a “viral” disease: “At the moment we think that it is a wrong immunoreaction of certain horses to a viral pathogen,” she said.

Looking at five of the seven EPMF cases seen in two European referral clinics between late 2008 and mid-2011, Schwarz and colleagues noted two distinct forms of EMPF: “discrete” and “diffuse.” In EMPF, the lungs develop fibrosis nodules—a kind of bumpy scarring—in the alveoli. The alveoli are tiny pockets in the lungs that receive the incoming air during breathing and process its gases for the body to use. In the discrete form of EMPF, nodules can range from small to very large (up to 6.5 cm in Schwarz’s case studies) and are sharply defined in the lung tissue. By contrast, in the diffuse form the nodules are mostly small and widespread. In the current study three of the horses had the discrete form, whereas the other two had the diffuse form.

In two additional case studies, also led by Schwarz, two horses were diagnosed with the diffuse form of the disease.

Consistent with previously findings, all seven of these horses were found to be positive for EHV-5, Schwarz said. One horse was also diagnosed with concurrent T cell leukemia, which also appears to be related to EHV-5, she added. Leukemia is primarily a disease of the bone marrow, and EHV-5 appears to cause pathological changes in the bone marrow in some horses.

Only one of the seven study horses survived the disease, Schwarz said, and at 22 years old he was also one of the oldest affected. In a pioneering effort, researchers at the University of Veterinary Medicine in Vienna treated the Trakehner stallion with the antiviral medication valacyclovir, without corticosteroids. After one week of treatment, the stallion made a full recovery and was still healthy two years later. However, this successful outcome should not be attributed to the medication alone, she cautioned. The fact that the disease was caught early in its progression probably played an important role in the horse’s survival.

Clinical signs of EMPF usually include weight loss and progressive respiratory disease, especially difficulty breathing, said Schwarz. Because EMPF is so rare, veterinarians usually do not suspect it initially and often treat the horse for a bacterial disease instead. By the time EMPF is discovered, it’s typically too late to institute effective treatment.

“This disease is a terrible disease,” Schwarz said. “I don't think that these horses are in great pain, but they definitely are in great distress. Depending on the severity of lung lesions, they have less oxygen in their blood, which makes them feel like they’re suffocating.”
 
Thank you gals for info - wish we knew what we could give him to fight it. :(

The first signs we saw was leaving his feed - followed on by worrying weight loss - then hard breathing and lying down a lot. It was the weight loss that worried me and said something is seriously wrong - and then one of the vets at the practice said ( with the symptoms owner gave ) * oh ride him and lunge him * duhhhhh NO way I say get them down to see him not diagnose it over the phone.


Well he is still at the RVC temperature came down a little but no update on that
 
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