Osama Bin Laden is Dead

JadeWisc said:
Give the damn seals some credit. They put their lives on the line in the hopes to make you and I safer
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As my mom would say, 'hope springs eternal'. ;)

I don't think that this has made the world a safer place at all. In fact it has done the opposite, which is evidenced by the fact that all the terrorist threat levels went up after it happened and remain up.
 
So, it doesn't look as if we believe the Americans could do anything right does it?!. Think that is what is known as "no win" situation. Bin Laden was not armed - his guards were. The fight went on for 45 minuutes (reported) before he was shot. Everyone on this posting does seem to overlook that both Cameron and Obama very CLEARLY said this is not the end, and they expect retribution.

People jumping around in the streets - no I don't like it either. Understand it? yes I try to.

And I do wonder what people would be saying if the americans had known and just left Bin Laden?

And for anyone who hasn't actually been over to US - its not really one big country, thats like saying everyone in Europe is the same. There is a massive difference between East, Central and West Coast people so you should really expect as many different opinions over there as we see - just like in the UK!

If they had kept his body for show - that would be against the basic principles of Islam - even I know that. If they buried him, his grave would become a shrine. The body was photographed, DNA evidence taken. Short of having him on display for all to see I really don't see there is a great deal else the US could have done.
 
CanadianGirl said:
As my mom would say, 'hope springs eternal'. ;)

I don't think that this has made the world a safer place at all. In fact it has done the opposite, which is evidenced by the fact that all the terrorist threat levels went up after it happened and remain up.
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now we know the differnce between the americans and the canadians!!!! I guess it must be the french blood :D
 
I do find this slightly perplexing...

Does anyone believe that Osama deserved anything other than a death sentence, he openly admitted that he planned, organised and funded an act of terrorism that claimed nearly 3 000 lives on one day, he is undoubtedly responsible for a whole lot more.

Why wasn't he brought back to face trial like the Nazi's at Nuremberg, simple, Nazi Germany was a state had Adolf Hitler been captured alive he undoubtedly would have faced trial, Nazi Germany was defeated and occuppied after seven years of war, the state effectively ceased to exist. OBL was not the ruler of a country, he was the leader of a movement, there was no state to invade, his supporters are scattered across the world, short of genocide they aren't going to be eradicated, they would still be capable of exacting revenge or conducting acts of terrorism to influence a trial or bargain for his release, in a manner that the Nazis couldnt.

I'm not the fondest admirer of America, they have a very narrow and arrogant view of the world, but didn't we Brits too, you have to understand what a complete shock 911 was to the US as a whole, for the first time the US was directly attacked by an enemy, they felt bewildered, shocked and enraged. American politiceans queued up to deliver "lets go get em" rhetoric and it has led America into two wars that have become brutal drawn out events that have led to over 5000 US casualties, not 30 day technological wonders like Desert Storm in the 90's.

To America the death of OBL represents their hope for an end to this and a return to normality, so in this context you can understand their celebration, as we celebrated VE day in 1945.

Do I think it makes the world a safer place, to be honest I don't know, I would like to hope so, but if it makes one terrorist think twice and lose sleep over the US willingness to persue them for 10 years, then it has served a purpose. I hope that OBL died a painful death, in fear and on his own, in the same manner that he has been responsible for inflicting upon countless other people
 
Yes I expect the 9/11 disaster was a shock to the US, but lets not forget that we were equally terrorized by the IRA and a lot the funding came from Irish Americans in New York.It is not nice to be targeted on your home ground,to an extent we had to get used to it.
Will this end terror..no it will increase it,so exactly what was the gain?
 
EAST KENT said:
Yes I expect the 9/11 disaster was a shock to the US, but lets not forget that we were equally terrorized by the IRA and a lot the funding came from Irish Americans in New York.It is not nice to be targeted on your home ground,to an extent we had to get used to it.
Will this end terror..no it will increase it,so exactly what was the gain?
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You can go around in circles but there are times when you do need to stand up and be counted. Will it cause a retribution? undoubtedly, but lets not forget, had he been alive, he would still be plotting atrocities. My hope is this, as was said previously, might just make some people think twice. Yes, someone else will come up but this is the first time that this movement has been really bitten back - hard and I don't think it is a bad thing that these murderers do realise that that there really are consequences. In an ideal world, I would have liked to have seen him stand trial but realistically, not sure that would have sparked off an even greater outrage.
 
Alec Swan said:
Does anyone remember the Iranian Embassy siege? The circumstances were slightly different, I'll accept, but the outcome was the same, and rightly so.

If we accept that "Leaders" are rarely the martyrs, then it's surprising how the concept of an early demise seems to focus the mind! Perhaps those who promote wanton slaughter, feel that they're of more use to the "cause", but in their back room capacity.

Topping the willing martyrs is a waist of time, they're there for that anyway. Threatening the promoters with death, can often shorten the list of applicants!

Alec.
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I couldn't agree with you more Alec - diplomacy was far better used years ago, when we still had gunboats to send out! We'd give a lovely party at the British Embassy where the potential problem would be invited ( or brought kicking ) and informed quite plainly that if he continued in his chosen path he would be summarily shot, placed across the barrel of a large gun, sent for a walk in a minefield or taken up in a helicopter and dropped off over deep water or big mountains - and his family cursed, yea, unto the seventh generation.

Seemed to work.
 
perfect11s said:
now we know the differnce between the americans and the canadians!!!! I guess it must be the french blood :D
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You do not know 1/1,000 of my full opinion on this issue and even if you did you would seem quite silly to be basing the differences of two entire countries based on my typings on HHO :) and btw... Elaborate on what the "differences" are if you will. You said you now know them so it shoud be easy. :D Let's hear them


Or was that supposed to be a funny joke? If it was I just didn't get it :D and btw... my grandmother is a Marquette ;)
 
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Lynds said:
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." Martin Luther King, Jr
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The most sensible thing I've heard in the past few days, and from a great man.



Hanno Verian said:
To America the death of OBL represents their hope for an end to this and a return to normality, so in this context you can understand their celebration, as we celebrated VE day in 1945.
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Hi HV, I think the VE celebrations were slightly different as they weren't celebrating a death, but the end of the war. Then one year later the Channel Islanders finally got to celebrate getting our island back after 5 years of German occupation.
 
CanadianGirl said:
As my mom would say, 'hope springs eternal'. ;)

I don't think that this has made the world a safer place at all. In fact it has done the opposite, which is evidenced by the fact that all the terrorist threat levels went up after it happened and remain up.
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In actual fact the threat levels have gone down since 911.

I am NOT a conspiracy theorist but the secret services were certainly aware of a possible attack - what they call "A Spectacular" and in my opinion most of them favoured an attempt on President Clinton - the security surrounding his visit to Chequers was truly amazing and never equalled before or since. Here in London, the City had a steel fence completely around it with every post box, waste bin removed or sealed up along with manhole covers, electric cupboards and street furniture - these have all been removed.

In fact directly after 911 - I distinctly heard a huge sigh of relief because that was it for years to come ( sleeper missions take years to plan and finance ) and with the huge upsurge in funding for the spooks, terrorists have been limited to suicide bombers - while these may be a problem for anyone sitting next to them - you won't get a spook loosing much sleep over them.

The only change I can see is that the Queen's Flight aircraft seem to be sporting a new array of radar antenna - to no doubt suppress some types of missile.

The rest is the imagination of the newhounds.
 
mymare said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynds
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." Martin Luther King, Jr

The most sensible thing I've heard in the past few days, and from a great man.
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I agree. I had this as my FB status two days ago. It was pointed out to me though that the first line of that may not have been a MLK quote after all. If this turns out to be the case I still agree that is is a wonderful sentiment to have been added to the rest of the quote and if MLK were here I would hazard a quess that is how he would be feeling anyhow.
 
mymare said:
The most sensible thing I've heard in the past few days, and from a great man.






Hi HV, I think the VE celebrations were slightly different as they weren't celebrating a death, but the end of the war. Then one year later the Channel Islanders finally got to celebrate getting our island back after 5 years of German occupation.
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But they were also celebrating the death of Hitler....
 
EAST KENT said:
Oh there will be trouble aplenty alright,and I am not totally convinced.They slipped the body into the sea rather fast..why?In a way it is a little sad,much prefered the wily old soldier to be elusive forever and maintain his charisma.Not supporting his methods by the way, but I just hate all these self congratulately yanks,so bloomin` infantile.
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Apart from your first two sentences, the rest of your post was extremely offensive. How dare you make such a sweeping statement about the inhabitants of what is generally speaking a wonderful country. My sister has lived in KY for many years, and both my niece and nephew are half-American. I would thank you kindly to NOT call them "Yanks" or "infantile".
 
HashRouge said:
The picture was a hoax....I do think they need to provide definitive proof that he's dead, although I do believe it.
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The Americans are considering releasing a picture of Bin Laden's corpse. Too many fake ones going about, and too many people not believing he is actually dead. Personally, I think they got rid of his body far too quickly, and used his religion as an excuse. They should have brought him back and let a representative of each allied country inspect the body. I really want to believe he is gone, but without proof, I am unsure.
 
JadeWisc said:
You do not know 1/1,000 of my full opinion on this issue and even if you did you would seem quite silly to be basing the differences of two entire countries based on my typings on HHO :) and btw... Elaborate on what the "differences" are if you will. You said you now know them so it shoud be easy. :D Let's hear them


Or was that supposed to be a funny joke? If it was I just didn't get it :D and btw... my grandmother is a Marquette ;)
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Um I was gently teaseing canadian girl!!! if you read my other posts my attitude is well done you guys got the *******!!!! im all for the gun boat dipomcy
kick the door down and deal with it ... it seems some your friends north of the border are a little more fluffy and worryed about the backlash I guess most 'mericans would say let um try we have plenty more ammo :D
 
perfect11s said:
Um I was gently teaseing canadian girl!!! if you read my other posts my attitude is well done you guys got the *******!!!! im all for the gun boat dipomcy
kick the door down and deal with it ... it seems some your friends north of the border are a little more fluffy and worryed about the backlash I guess most 'mericans would say let um try we have plenty more ammo :D
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I'm sorry. I was a bit defensive because I have been reading so much anti American sentiment in the media, on FB, and HHO. Looking back that is just a joke that I would normally laugh off. I do have a sense of humor.

I feel we are damned if we do and damned if we don't all the time and sometimes it hurts me to read it and other times I can agree and laugh it off. This time it makes me more upset because it is such an emotive subject.

I would never have the audacity to ( in a serious manner) make horrible statements about any country, religion or race as a whole. I feel people often think it is 'ok' to do that to America though. It still hurts just like it would hurt anybody. It also seems so ignorant and that upsets me. How can others feel there is any way to generalize about any group or nation as a whole? It is impossible and the stupidity astounds me.

I am very sorry that I took my frustrations out on your innocent joke
 
Over2You said:
Apart from your first two sentences, the rest of your post was extremely offensive. How dare you make such a sweeping statement about the inhabitants of what is generally speaking a wonderful country. My sister has lived in KY for many years, and both my niece and nephew are half-American. I would thank you kindly to NOT call them "Yanks" or "infantile".
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I like you :D


My OH also lives here from Scotland and our son and daughter are half Scottish. Our families are a bit alike in many ways :D
 
JadeWisc said:
I'm sorry. I was a bit defensive because I have been reading so much anti American sentiment in the media, on FB, and HHO. Looking back that is just a joke that I would normally laugh off. I do have a sense of humor.

I feel we are damned if we do and damned if we don't all the time and sometimes it hurts me to read it and other times I can agree and laugh it off. This time it makes me more upset because it is such an emotive subject.

I would never have the audacity to ( in a serious manner) make horrible statements about any country, religion or race as a whole. I feel people often think it is 'ok' to do that to America though. It still hurts just like it would hurt anybody. It also seems so ignorant and that upsets me. How can others feel there is any way to generalize about any group or nation as a whole? It is impossible and the stupidity astounds me.

I am very sorry that I took my frustrations out on your innocent joke
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I think the most important thing for you guys to remember is a great number of people are envious
of the United States of America, it's sucess and diversity and power... And the other important thing is that there is a big strange world outside your borders!!!! God bless America,
 
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Over2You said:
The Americans are considering releasing a picture of Bin Laden's corpse. Too many fake ones going about, and too many people not believing he is actually dead. Personally, I think they got rid of his body far too quickly, and used his religion as an excuse. They should have brought him back and let a representative of each allied country inspect the body. I really want to believe he is gone, but without proof, I am unsure.
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According to White House Press Secretary Carney; Bin Laden was shot in the face so photographic evidence may be inconclusive.
 
The truth is slowly emerging now..the chopper was`nt "shot down" it clopped it`s tail fin on a wall. There was no arms cache in the house.Bin Laden was unarmed and DID NOT use a wife as a body shield, according to one of the children present he was arrested and then shot..and so it goes on.
There seems to be an awful lot of discrepancies here,which does`nt surprise me in the least.:rolleyes:
 
I think the American's have done the world a great service. One less verminous individual polluting the planet.

As my teenage son posted as his facebook status: amazing what the Yanks can acheive when the PS3 network is down, hahaha.

Really cannot comprehend the degree of handwringing going on here (and this is from a philosophy graduate). If I personally could go back in time and organise the assasination of Hitler in the 1930's, would I? Hell yes.
 
siennamum said:
I think the American's have done the world a great service. One less verminous individual polluting the planet.

As my teenage son posted as his facebook status: amazing what the Yanks can acheive when the PS3 network is down, hahaha.

Really cannot comprehend the degree of handwringing going on here (and this is from a philosophy graduate). If I personally could go back in time and organise the assasination of Hitler in the 1930's, would I? Hell yes.
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Yep true and PC , handwringing , fluffys arnt the type of people who put the Great into Great Britain.. why do you think there seems to be so many of there ilk and they seem to have the upper hand in making policy and encoraging the apeasement of all sorts of dubious and dangerous groups/people for instance and what's there aim and or thinking in this ?? .....
 
EAST KENT said:
The truth is slowly emerging now..the chopper was`nt "shot down" it clopped it`s tail fin on a wall. There was no arms cache in the house.Bin Laden was unarmed and DID NOT use a wife as a body shield, according to one of the children present he was arrested and then shot..and so it goes on.
There seems to be an awful lot of discrepancies here,which does`nt surprise me in the least.:rolleyes:
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Be very cautious as to what you call truth! There are so many vested interests in this matter.

That helicopter in the compound never was shot down or accidentally damaged - it's fairly standard practise for one of these assaults to crash a team in as close as possible - think here of a defense budget and mission importance - don't spare the cellulose! A ground team would also be in place to cover all the exits and enterances and would also take out any guards just before that helo landed.

I'd hazard a guess that OBL was asleep just before the SEALs burst in so in wouldn't matter much whether he had arms to hand or not - I would find it very hard to believe that there were no weapons at all in a place that size - it is not a leafy suburb in the home counties - Pakistan is the kind of place where you pack a gun if you have anything worth protecting.
 
perfect11s said:
Yep true and PC , handwringing , fluffys arnt the type of people who put the Great into Great Britain.. why do you think there seems to be so many of there ilk and they seem to have the upper hand in making policy and encoraging the apeasement of all sorts of dubious and dangerous groups/people for instance and what's there aim and or thinking in this ?? .....
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I think people just want to do the right thing, which is fair play. But it's naive to think that there's no room for expediency. The end can absolutely justify the means IMO.

It's funny people using the Nuremberg Trials as an example of how this could have all been handled better. Does that mean we should also forcibly repatriate terrorist bombmakers & chemists and give them highly paid jobs in our defence industries as the USA did with all the Nazi scientists they could get their hands on - whilst the Nuremberg Trials were being conducted.
 
IMHO its great news. If we had been involved he would have been brought to the UK then got legal aid and invoked his uman rights and be given a council house and benefits!
Sorry but this man was responsible for thousands of deaths and probably would have been responsible for many more. Good riddance I say
 
siennamum said:
I think people just want to do the right thing, which is fair play. But it's naive to think that there's no room for expediency. The end can absolutely justify the means IMO.

It's funny people using the Nuremberg Trials as an example of how this could have all been handled better. Does that mean we should also forcibly repatriate terrorist bombmakers & chemists and give them highly paid jobs in our defence industries as the USA did with all the Nazi scientists they could get their hands on - whilst the Nuremberg Trials were being conducted.
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Unfortunately for them - making terrorist type bombs isn't rocket science!

Appreciate your sentiments.
 
alma said:
IMHO its great news. If we had been involved he would have been brought to the UK then got legal aid and invoked his uman rights and be given a council house and benefits!
Sorry but this man was responsible for thousands of deaths and probably would have been responsible for many more. Good riddance I say
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I'm going to chip in my twopennyworth of Conspriracy here - we are TOLD that he was responsible for thousands of deaths - none of us actually know for sure.
 
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