OTT on rugging?

NellRosk said:
Exactly! Some horses just can't cope with it as well/ hate it more than others. They are all individuals like us and it is up to us to look after them and cater for their needs!
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That's it in a nutshell. One TB might be hardy and can cope all winter without a rug, whereas another may shiver at the sight of raincloud coming his way. Unfortunately my WB is the latter, but I'm more than happy to cater to his needs!
 
Do whatever he needs :)

My last horse was in a rug of some description 99% of the time.

My current native pony is naked 90% of the time - with usually a no fill turn out to keep the winter rain off him & a 180g turn out if the weather is really vile in winter. He'd probably cope without a no fill but does keep him clean & dry enough to exercise more easily after work. On a cold, dry day he'd usually go out naked, as he seems to cope fine with cold but I think being cold & wet is different.

Both would/would have suffered if I tried to treat them the same when to rugging (or anything, really!) - different individuals, different needs :)
 
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Prince33Sp4rkle said:
so you would let them shiver for how long exactly, in an effort to get them to *man up*?

personally find the idea of feeding a competition horse for condition and schooling for suppleness, and then letting them stand tensed and cold against the weather, more ludicrous.
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Well I suppose it all boils down to what is best for your interests isn't it?

Personally I like to let my horse be as much of a horse as possible, without hindering her welfare in any way for my own ends.

I stand by what I say. Horses in HW rugs at this time of year in Britain is ludicrous. No wonder they shiver without them.
 
I think most people over rug their horses these days. The horses don get the opportunity to grow a coat because a rug Is popped on before they get chance and eventually I think their body expects to be rugged so looses the ability to grow a coat altogether. My mare was rugged a lot and when I bought her I knew no difference and continued the same but she didn't keep condition very well. I started doing some research and over the past two to three winters I have slowly de rugged her and she's already grown quite a thick coat this year since its come in colder and wetter this last week or two. I did find that in the heavy rain last winter I needed to put a rain sheet on her as she would shiver but I Also found that having ad lib hay enough for all of the horses in the field, would prevent that. The few times I went down and they had eaten the hay in the feeders, I would put more out and after five mins of tucking in, she would stop shivering. I guess it's a question of whether you can afford to feed enough hay to keep up with their demands esp in the thick of winter or whether it's easier and more economical to rug. We had a rug ripper in the field last winter so it was cheaper for me to put hay out since it was my girls rug tht was being ripped:)
 
claribella said:
I think most people over rug their horses these days. The horses don get the opportunity to grow a coat because a rug Is popped on before they get chance and eventually I think their body expects to be rugged so looses the ability to grow a coat altogether. My mare was rugged a lot and when I bought her I knew no difference and continued the same but she didn't keep condition very well. I started doing some research and over the past two to three winters I have slowly de rugged her and she's already grown quite a thick coat this year since its come in colder and wetter this last week or two. I did find that in the heavy rain last winter I needed to put a rain sheet on her as she would shiver but I Also found that having ad lib hay enough for all of the horses in the field, would prevent that. The few times I went down and they had eaten the hay in the feeders, I would put more out and after five mins of tucking in, she would stop shivering. I guess it's a question of whether you can afford to feed enough hay to keep up with their demands esp in the thick of winter or whether it's easier and more economical to rug. We had a rug ripper in the field last winter so it was cheaper for me to put hay out since it was my girls rug tht was being ripped:)
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Common sense at last! :-)
 
Moomin1 said:
Perhaps if people stopped rugging their horses at the first drop of rain and temp then horses would be more able to cope with regulating their own body temps. Never heard anything so ludicrous as horses shivering in summer rain. Shoot me down now.
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Rug debates on here always make me giggle - I think if you have to post on here to ask how many rugs you should have on your horse from a forum full of people most of which will not have the same weather conditions or temperatures as you, you probably need to think twice about having horses.

That said - I do what is best for hours. If the TBs are shivering and stood at the gate, I won't leave them out there to prove a point. I don't need to justify my rugging routines to anyone as long as the horses are comfortable that is all I am bothered about. The reason I distance myself from equine related people and why we don't have liveries etc is so I can avoid the "OMG, RTE brought her horse in today because it was raining, and then she put a flipping rug on it, in September, yes, what a complete idiot." I hate the horsey world for that reason.
 
RunToEarth said:
Rug debates on here always make me giggle - I think if you have to post on here to ask how many rugs you should have on your horse from a forum full of people most of which will not have the same weather conditions or temperatures as you, you probably need to think twice about having horses.

That said - I do what is best for hours. If the TBs are shivering and stood at the gate, I won't leave them out there to prove a point. I don't need to justify my rugging routines to anyone as long as the horses are comfortable that is all I am bothered about. The reason I distance myself from equine related people and why we don't have liveries etc is so I can avoid the "OMG, RTE brought her horse in today because it was raining, and then she put a flipping rug on it, in September, yes, what a complete idiot." I hate the horsey world for that reason.
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I have no issues with people rugging/bringing in/feeding whatever the heck they want to do, but when it starts becoming a welfare issue that's when it grates on me. IMO people are the cause of horses not being able to cope in weather, because as someone mentioned above, as soon as a slight bit of rain comes down, a rug goes on.

Someone piling 8 HW's on a horse is absolutely barbaric IMO. Just saying. :-)
 
NellRosk said:
Over cautious at best, uncomfortable for the horse at worst. But barbaric.. Just no.
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Well if you were the one having to deal with horses which have collapsed through heat exposure due to over rugging maybe you would change your mind on that one.

And yes, it does happen. More regularly than people know. It really really should be more highlighted now, it's becoming more and more of a problem in the horse world. :-(
 
Moomin1 said:
I see lots of things that are 'far more barbaric', nevermind think it.

Even so, I still think piling 8 HW's on is barbaric.
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Moomin1 said:
Well if you were the one having to deal with horses which have collapsed through heat exposure due to over rugging maybe you would change your mind on that one.

And yes, it does happen. More regularly than people know. It really really should be more highlighted now, it's becoming more and more of a problem in the horse world. :-(
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That's absolutely disgusting that that happens, thank god I've never known it happen to any horse I know/ round my area! Some people shouldn't be allowed horses.
 
RunToEarth said:
Rug debates on here always make me giggle - I think if you have to post on here to ask how many rugs you should have on your horse from a forum full of people most of which will not have the same weather conditions or temperatures as you, you probably need to think twice about having horses.

That said - I do what is best for hours. If the TBs are shivering and stood at the gate, I won't leave them out there to prove a point. I don't need to justify my rugging routines to anyone as long as the horses are comfortable that is all I am bothered about. The reason I distance myself from equine related people and why we don't have liveries etc is so I can avoid the "OMG, RTE brought her horse in today because it was raining, and then she put a flipping rug on it, in September, yes, what a complete idiot." I hate the horsey world for that reason.
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Ok firstly, I wasn't asking I was wondering. I find it incredibly rude of you to say I should think twice about having horses.

Secondly, I agree that too many rugs are cruel and unnecessary. However, I don't think me putting 2 HW's and a fleece on a fully clipped 21 year old in the middle of winter is cruel. He is out all day in the snow, wind or rain with his 2 HW's and fleecy on.
 
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NellRosk said:
That's absolutely disgusting that that happens, thank god I've never known it happen to any horse I know/ round my area! Some people shouldn't be allowed horses.
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Yes it's horrendous, and the reason why I get my back up so much on the subject.

Everyone gets up in arms about dogs in hot cars, yet it's acceptable these days to pile rugs on in meagre temps of 9 degrees. :-(
 
JennyConnor said:
Ok firstly, I wasn't asking I was wondering. I find it incredibly rude of you to say I should think twice about having horses.

Secondly, I agree that too many rugs are cruel and unnecessary. However, I don't think me putting 2 HW's and a fleece on a fully clipped 21 year old is cruel. He is out all day in the snow, wind or rain with his 2 HW's and fleecy on.
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I would agree that the level of rugging for your horse in those conditions is acceptable given his age.

I'm talking about people who say that the temp has now 'gone down to 9 degrees or so' now piling HW's on. 9 degrees is not cold for a fit, healthy horse.
 
but if the horses are NOT OVER HOT, are not sweating, or itchy or distressed, its NOT a welfare issue, its NOT barbaric,and thus your argument disappears in a poof of smoke, your just getting worked up about something that isnt happening!

its also not an issue of cost, but as being as my feed bill is close to £200 a month (for hard feed only, not hay) and the horse needs to be hard fit and supple to do his job, why the blazes would i encourage a thick coat, that i then have to clip off, and feed even more hard feed (which in its self is problematic for an ulcer prone horse) to keep his topline, instead of just keeping him warmer with another rug!

hardy, hairy sorts in light work i quite agree probably dont need loads of rugs. but thin skinned, thin coated, poor doer sporty types do, and i would say its actually barbaric to let them shiver.

and yes, he's hard fit and supple to the job i want him to do, but the alternative is the meat man so its not much of a choice really! no horse wants to work, but we look after them and in return they do the job we select for them, fair trade off really, they couldnt survive without us.
 
oh here we go with the 'let a horse be a horse' and 'mother nature knows best' brigade again.

You cant have it both ways - by the mere fact our horses are domesticated and being worked and adjusted to living anything other than a truly 'wild' existence you cannot just 'let a horse be a horse'. Mother nature is cruel and ensures only survival of the fittest! Moveover I don't want to see my horse just *manage* or *cope* - Im sure she would infact cope if I left her unrugged, (much as we did 30 years ago when all you owned was 1 new zealand for all occasions), she'd survive perfectly well and look 'ok' but things have moved on. We now have the ability to ensure instead of our horses just managing or coping, that they actually thrive and look a wonderful picture of health , all year round!

It may be 'only September' but who knows in the climate we have nowadays what the temperature is likely to be. We no longer have reliable seasons and frankly, even more reason to rug up earlier if its suddenly colder now as most horses still dont have much coat to cope with it! There is hill snow forecast here and its down to freezing at night. I rug according to the conditions on any given day, regardless of the time of year and yes, Im not 'toughening' my horse by doing so, but she's a fully domesticated animal with me to care for her 24/7, she doesnt have to live wild on a hill side so she doesnt have to be tough and get on with it.
 
Glad moomins horse is kept so natural and not in the barbaric rug wearing way that so many people keep there horses like!
Call the rspca on us all now!
 
So long as your horse is comfortable, i.e. not too hot and not too cold, I don't see there is a problem. I prefer to rug as little as possible, but I have to measure my expectations because I have an elderly Arab who hates wind and rain and she also lives on an exposed Pennine hillside without much natural shelter. So she was unrugged all week until yesterday, despite the dropping temperatures and wind, but yesterday we were forecast heavy rain for much of the day on top of cooler temperatures and the wind, so I put her in a lightweight. Today I went up to see her and although she was at the top of the field grazing she came running to the gate when she saw me and was shivering quite a lot so I put her medium weight on. She should be nice and snug in that :)
 
JennyConnor said:
Thanks guys :)

I always try to best by him, but after reading that 99% of the horses on here are still out naked or in rainsheets it got me wondering!
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My cob has her mw on - she was cold in her lw so they went up a bit.


claribella said:
I think most people over rug their horses these days. The horses don get the opportunity to grow a coat because a rug Is popped on before they get chance and eventually I think their body expects to be rugged so looses the ability to grow a coat altogether. My mare was rugged a lot and when I bought her I knew no difference and continued the same but she didn't keep condition very well. I started doing some research and over the past two to three winters I have slowly de rugged her and she's already grown quite a thick coat this year since its come in colder and wetter this last week or two. I did find that in the heavy rain last winter I needed to put a rain sheet on her as she would shiver but I Also found that having ad lib hay enough for all of the horses in the field, would prevent that. The few times I went down and they had eaten the hay in the feeders, I would put more out and after five mins of tucking in, she would stop shivering. I guess it's a question of whether you can afford to feed enough hay to keep up with their demands esp in the thick of winter or whether it's easier and more economical to rug. We had a rug ripper in the field last winter so it was cheaper for me to put hay out since it was my girls rug tht was being ripped:)
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I do rug when they get cold because I don't want her to grow a thick coat - she'd just end up dripping wet when I ride so I rug to keep her warm, prevent her growing a coat and then I don't have to clip as early.

I've sat with a horse while it fitted due to heat stroke because of a hw in 25 degree heat (long story, not my horse) and while it was pts as too far gone to save.
But I still chose to rug my horse because it's appropriate for her - I like her warm but certainly not too hot as thats as uncomfortable as being cold. I tend to use the base of her ears and her udders as a guide to how warm she it and play it by the weather forecast, local conditions and how she feels to me.
 
alma said:
on this subject what do you find are the best rugs for being waterproof. Ive got various brands and horses still seem to get wet underneath
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I bought the new PE Titan and as my horse trotted off away from me I could see the rested water bouncing off him like little beads. Very impressed with the waterproof ability!
 
My Thoroughbred ex racer is such a hot horse. I cannot over rug him as he will just sweat profusely and in turn rip his rugs. I can no longer be the over pampering mother!
 
The only time I ever see my mare shiver is in summer wind and rain - because she has no length to her coat to protect her. Naturally she is a very hot horse, and usually only has a heavy weight rug on from January to the end of Feb when I have done a second clip and it is cold. My husband's horse is not quite as warm as her, but he does fine in the same rugs. They are both good doers though. They have summer no fill turnouts on in this wet and windy weather. They won't get any fil in their rugs til the end of Oct.

I actually think the biggest problems horses have nowadays is lack of good natural shelter in their fields (and I say natural, as they seem to prefer being under a hedge or good line of trees to an artificial shelter IMO). We only have one field with good tree coverage and shelter, they never shiver there, but do in the more exposed windy fields. If people provided good shelters and feed they may well need less rugs.
 
All horses,as said, are individual. Seems OTT tome, but obviously is what is right for YOUR horse.
Us humans are the same,some wear t-shirts while others wrap up in several jumpers.
 
I rug according to the horse, my old fella would have a lightweight waterproof on now but he ripped it so have to get a new one, he felt a bit cold today but will have to make do. The younger horses wont see a rug until October at least.

What I think people need to understand though is shivering is not a bad thing, it is a perfectly natural response to a bit of cold rain. Prolonged and excessive shivering is something different but if your horse shivers during the summer there should be no need for a rug as he is already warming himself up in a natural way.
 
I have to say i have experienced over rugged horse at my old yard. HW on a hot day as owners didnt check in mornings. rugs piled on in temps like today. good old commonsense is needed and when i looked after big lad i went less rather than more as i beieve a horse can keep warmer easier in less rugs than trying to cool down in thick rugs but as said horses are indivduals
 
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