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longdog

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Really need some help: I bought an ex-hurdler from the Ascot sales last summer, a beautiful 7 y.o. bay mare with the intention of eventing her. She's spooky and sharp, but that's fine, that's what you expect from a TB! Her flatwork and hacking is improving all the time, but her jumping is making very slow progress, as every time we jump (1-2 times a week) she acts like she's never seen a pole before, so we have to go back to basics every single time! Once she's going, she's very talented at it. Also, the bigger problem is that she can't cope at competitions, they blow her brains. This week I was bucked off in the car park at a dressage comp! No matter how much time we give her she won't settle, she's constantly fighting me to look at everyone else, leaping about like an idiot. We lunge her, graze her and ride her for ages at a show, but she won't behave!! Just getting on is almost impossible :( She's on Simple Solutions Lunar Eclipse as a calming supplement, which I think has helped her at home, but I'm getting desperate for a solution for shows. If this carries on I'll have to sell her, or resign myself to life as a not very happy hacker! Any thoughts??
 
Some people will prbably have a go but try giving her sedalin for shows, the correct amount wont affect her ability but will calm her down. Even if she doesnt compete but just goes to just get used to it. As for the jumping no ideas here other than try and incorporate it in more than 1-2 times/wk even if just polework?
 
Are shows the only time you go on the lorry?
If she has raced, it may be the excitement of an expected good gallop when she gets off the lorry.
 
We go out to clinics as well as comps, but it's hard finding the time to get her out more, as my mum has to do the driving and we both work full time :( I'm feeling v despondent at the moment, as she has bags and bags of talent, but she's such a nut when we go out. Maybe we'll just have to dope her and take her to shows but not compete. Sounds like a fun summer!!
 
Take her out to everything and anything so she gets used to it. Even if you don't ride her or compete just so she gets used to an atmosphere. Giver yourself plenty of time when you are out and don't take her home untill she starts to settle. Hopefully she will get used to it :).

The jumping is harder.. My mums ex racer is a bit like this in terms of if we haven't taken him out jumping for a while he stops at everything (even a pole!) for the first time and then is fine as long as we start small and build up. He gets better the more he jumps and he will jump clear IF he is seeing fillers regularly.

My ex-racer jumps anything off any stride first time so I won't say the jumping is an ex-racer thing and my last little racer was as bold as brass too.

Only time will tell with the jumping but she *should* fingers crossed eventually settle at a show, you've only had her for a year and these things can take time :).
 
If you can take he in the box to go for a hack some where.... Try and mix it up.

The excitement may also come from the tanoy.... Winds my boy up too but eventually he has learnt that he is not a race horse any more and he has got alot better
 
Have you tried feeding Brewers Yeast? Although it is primarily fed to improve gut function it also has a calming effect. I saw a big difference on my tb when I started using it, as recommended by a racehorse trainer. The good thing is it costs about £40 for a big sack which lasts one horse at least a year.

I presume he's been checked out for any pain-related issues like back, teeth, saddle etc.

Nearly forgot, if you are giving any hard feed have you tried cutting that out completely and just feeding fibre? If possible, 24 hour turnout as well.
Mine is out all day and in a 20. x 20 metre woodchip arena with ad lib quality hay at night. She gets a "feed" of Lo-cal feed balancer, Mollichop Calmer (which is mostly chopped straw with added magnesium) and Brewers Yeast. It has made a big difference to her previous silly behaviour.
 
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She's out 24/7 because she boxwalks like a madwoman if she has to be stabled for any period of time. Her teeth are fine, her tack fits and she's currently being treated by a Bowen therapist for tightness and tension! She's fed once a day, which is half a scoop of hi-fi lite, plus the supplement, which does contain yeast, but I will look into the Brewer's Yeast, because poor digestion is meant to be a racehorse trait, I've heard. I've tried NAF Magic, but that had no effect. Maybe it will just take her a long time to acclimatise to being a riding horse instead of a racehorse. It's a shame, because when she's sane she really loves her work, ears are always pricked and she's very affectionate. She's sensible when we do fast work on hacks, and she's being a surprisingly good nanny to our 4 y.o. cob when we hack out. Advice so far seems to be to keep persevering and getting her out as much as poss, so I will do that! I'll keep my fingers crossed!! Cheers :)
 
Just remembered another point - alfalfa based feeds have been known to hype horses up as well which was why I was so pleased to discoveer the Mollichop Calmer, it's also quite a bit cheaper per sack than Hi-Fi!

I get my BY from Charnwood Milling (they have a website) and if you ring them up I am sure they will send you a little sample to make sure your horse likes it.

Have you had him scoped for ulcers?

Please don't get disheartened, as you know, it takes longer to re-train a horse than to train a youngster and he will repay you a thousandfold if you are patient. I've had 4 ex.racers and would put them above any other of the "sensible types" any day.
 
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How long have you been taking her out to shows??

See my thread http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=451943

My Ex racer is exactly the same although he loves jumping and when in the ring really concentrates. It's just outside he's behaves like an idiot!

Since my post I have taken him over to a few dressage shows as I don't really have the inclination for dressage I just take him over stand around, have a cup of tea while he eats the grass etc..... I toook him jumping on Sunday and he was like a different horse, really laid back and well behaved.

I have him on Simple Systems Rough Stuff & Top Nosh (I would feed straights if I could get hold of them on this bloody Island !) and Hay instead of haylage where ever possible.

If you only get the horse last year, I think you are putting to much pressure on you and the horse to expect him to go out and do something which is completly alien to him so soon. I have had mine 2 years and am only getting this far. Just take him out (I hack to shows which seems to help as well- although this may not be an option for you?)

I have also used Oxy shots for travelling which seem to work really well

Good Luck
 
I do try not to get disheartened! She's such a lovely horse that even if I can't compete her, I know she'll have a happy home with me for a very very long time.

I don't travel her with a companion, no, because our other horse would shout the place down as soon as they were separated! I don't think she's particularly anxious or nervous, I think she is literally just too excited!

The vet said not to worry about getting her scoped, just treat her as if she did have an gastric ulcer when feeding her. I'm going to try the Mollichaff Calmer (cheers!) and see if that has an effect, and when I finish the Lunar Eclipse I'll look into the Brewers Yeast - it's certainly cheaper!
 
Oops, just saw that last post. We started going out and about in April. Read your thread about your boy boiling over at his show and I feel for you! Our first show was exciting but manageable and I was thrilled with her, and then as I said, the last show we did she bucked me off as soon as I was legged up in the car park! I completed both tests afterwards but she was a flipping nightmare. (What was worse than the know it alls were the people saying I was brave to ride her...!!) Someone else suggested the Oxyshot, so that's on my shopping list! I hate the idea of going to shows and not competing, but yes, I know that's probably the sensible thing to do... She'll be puzzled!

ps. Horseback Rider, If you're still searching for bits, I would try Neue Schule, they're fab!! I used the Dragonfly Saddlery bit bank for them, I tried a few before settling on the Team Up :) She used to be really fussy in her mouth, but she accepts this one really well. Need something stronger for jumping though!!
 
Thanks Longdog - I have tried the NS Trans Universal but he didn't seem to take any notice of it and when I put him back in his snaffle he went better. I am still thinking about wither the team up or a myler ??

Do Dragon fly offer a bit bank by post ?
 
What's she like out hacking? I would abandon any thoughts of competing or jumping for a year, take her out on lots of fun hacks, jump some rustic stuff (with a lead if possible) so that she can build her confidence in you and start to approach jumping and going new places as rewarding rather than frightening.

I had a horse who was similar, went from being chucked off for stupid reasons to just suddenly clicking and he would do anything for me! Took a year and a half though, just lots of grooming sessions and groundwork and fun rides/hacking/hunting, and I had to learn to trust him before he would consider trusting me. I think maybe she's just not ready for competing yet? TBs tend to not manage new situations too well, small brains you know ;)
 
Charliepony said:
What's she like out hacking? I would abandon any thoughts of competing or jumping for a year, take her out on lots of fun hacks, jump some rustic stuff (with a lead if possible) so that she can build her confidence in you and start to approach jumping and going new places as rewarding rather than frightening.

I had a horse who was similar, went from being chucked off for stupid reasons to just suddenly clicking and he would do anything for me! Took a year and a half though, just lots of grooming sessions and groundwork and fun rides/hacking/hunting, and I had to learn to trust him before he would consider trusting me. I think maybe she's just not ready for competing yet? TBs tend to not manage new situations too well, small brains you know ;)
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Agree with this 100%.. I bought myex racer mare in april 2010 and although she has been off work for most of that time due to illness and injury, we've been working now for about 4 months and it's all been hacking, apart from the odd circle in the school. I'll hack her out until the nights draw in and it's too dark to hack out and then start to school her in winter. Hacking her out seems to improve her confidence no end. She has calmed down so much, she's virtually unrecognisable.
 
There's a definite theme here! OK, lots of time and patience with the mad old bat, got it :) I would love to hunt her, but I'm pretty sure she'll kill me... Maybe cubbing in September. Sponsored rides is the way forward, I guess, and probably some clinics, so it's low pressure. I wish horses spoke English :(

ps. Dragonfly offer the bit bank by post, I guess you just pay the P&P costs :)
 
When did she last race?? did she get any break before after going through the sales ring? Sounds like she has done alot in a relatively short time. What is her breeding?
 
Her last race was July 2010, and then she went to Ascot the following month. She was raced very lightly, like once a year, and obviously I don't know any of her history other than that, which is frustrating. So I've treated her like a baby, but like some of you have pointed out, retraining is actually much harder than starting from scratch! There was me thinking I was taking everything v slowly!!
 
longdog said:
Her last race was July 2010, and then she went to Ascot the following month. She was raced very lightly, like once a year, and obviously I don't know any of her history other than that, which is frustrating. So I've treated her like a baby, but like some of you have pointed out, retraining is actually much harder than starting from scratch! There was me thinking I was taking everything v slowly!!
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What was her racing name? For her age to have only raced so little I would wonder did she have some trouble. Either way I think time out could help you alot...if she raced July, went to sales in August and had no time in the field being a horse her poor brain is probably a wee bit fried. To put it in context we have one lady in who is most likely not going to make the grade. I am already doing a fair bit of flatwork schooling with her as if she doesn't show something on the track she'll be my new sjer. However even though she is happily doing flatwork etc while racing fit I'll rough her off and throw her out for a while before starting her new career. Was she a flat horse or NH?
 
Ok, this is one of the most reassuring posts I've ever read on a forum, I have exactly the same issue jumping with my ex-racer, if we build it up slowly he will pop 80cm, the next day though he'll refuse a pole on the ground, heaven forbid you should use a ground line let alone a filler... I honestly have no idea how to improve this, I've had my horse two years and we just get no where with our jumping so I'm honestly considering giving it up as he just didn't enjoy it last time we tried.

The best thing for calming at show's is ProKalm, both my friend and I have found it amazing on ex-racers, plus it is FEI approved, unlike sedaline.

Interesting regarding the bits, I've just changed to a Myler 02 and it's better than a bog standard French link but still room for improvement, unless I resport to strapping his mouth shut!
 
Dizzle, I really feel for you :( I had a gridwork sesh with my girl today, and I was ecstatic that we managed to do a 2ft grid of 3 single stride uprights... This has taken SIX MONTHS!! It's just so frustrating that these horses have got so much talent and are so capable, but their crazy brains let them down. She spooked a lot but a had a schooling whip to help keep her straight and lots of growling when she shied! Thanks for ProKalm tip, I was a bit nervous about using sedalin at a show, even if it's only going to be a teeny local show. RE bitting, Scarlet loves the Neue Schule Team Up, which NS recommended to me. She's getting a bit mouthy, trying to roll her tongue back, so I might pop a flash strap on, or try the Verbindend as her flatwork advances. Plus she's so pleased with herself when we jump that she motorbikes off round the school, so something stronger than a snaffle might be called for if we do carry on with this jumping lark!
 
Also, her racing name was Johnny's Hunter, and I think her trainer was called T J Nagle. He's Irish, based in Cork. I wrote to him a few months ago asking if he could give me her background but never heard back... My instructor reckons she might have been raced in blinkers, and the reason she's so nervous of jumping is because she was beaten up by the hurdles!! They ping back when the horses brush through, don't they, and probably really sting! But I guess we'll never know.
 
longdog said:
Also, her racing name was Johnny's Hunter, and I think her trainer was called T J Nagle. He's Irish, based in Cork. I wrote to him a few months ago asking if he could give me her background but never heard back... My instructor reckons she might have been raced in blinkers, and the reason she's so nervous of jumping is because she was beaten up by the hurdles!! They ping back when the horses brush through, don't they, and probably really sting! But I guess we'll never know.
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No she def never wore blinkers when she ran and she would have raced over Easyfix hurdles which don't flick back so that is not her issue. She never seemed to really travel in her races though so could well have got a fall schooling as a youngster and that is why she is nervy. Equally with her rather sporadic racecourse appearances I would wonder was she injured & aggravating it while racing. It def wasn't a case of owner running out of money as she was owned by his family. Her breeding was very unsuccessful racing which is probably why they gave up after only three runs as alot of the progeny didn't seem to get two miles. She could just be ultra careful and it may be the case that when warming up you always have to start right back at a pole on the ground.
 
Wow, you certainly know your racing form!! She's the sort of horse who would hate to be galloping in a bunch, so I wonder if she hung back because she didn't want to get caught up with a load of other horses. It's just frustrating to have to go back to poles on the ground every time we jump! She's got a lovely round jump and great flatwork so I guess I'll just have to perservere :)
 
longdog said:
Wow, you certainly know your racing form!! She's the sort of horse who would hate to be galloping in a bunch, so I wonder if she hung back because she didn't want to get caught up with a load of other horses. It's just frustrating to have to go back to poles on the ground every time we jump! She's got a lovely round jump and great flatwork so I guess I'll just have to perservere :)
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www.irishracing.com is a mine of info...if you search her name on it and then click into the races you can find out where she was positioned through races etc. how is she loose jumping? perhaps it would help to get her confident in herself jumping loose and progress from there?!
 
She is very reactive, no molasses or sugars in diet and soak the hay. Try Fast Fibre to give her minerals, also a magnesium type calmer [I use Feedmark Steady up which is balanced with herbs and minerals and is palatable.
Out at night, in during day if possible
I would try to set up little work routine, so she knows what is coming, give her a light grooming then saddle up.
If you want to lunge her, [at a steady pace] try to get her to respond to voice aids, so you can get her used to listening for your voice, always go up and down transitions one at a time, walking on the lunge is nice for her, you want to see that ear "looking at you"
Every day the same thing, lead her over poles, set the poles up a bit different, making a grid and a labarynth, [a little road way] which she has to walk in to , turn at right angles and walk out, don't scold if she is hesitant. Once she is happy with all the in-hand work you can pop on her back [use a mounting block] and start on her schooling, treat as a baby, take it easy, work both reins evenly, big circles and figures of eight, keep her on a fairly light contact.
Jumping, every day do little cross poles which are very inviting, just concentrate on combinations, once she is going forward, pop her over a spread, then a vertical, but don't overface her, one day it will all come together.
Let her walk round on a loose rein after every burst of effort, mental and physical relaxation.
Take her out for a short hack which has proved uneventful in the past. If you can hack out with a companion that would be ideal, she is used to this, and must find being asked to do things on her own quite scary!
Do you use a light schooling whip, how does she react to a this, I would avoid a normal SJ whip as that may remind her of her racing days, get her used to moving away from you when you are on the ground using the whip, also run the whip lightly all over her to reassure her that there is nothing to worry about.
 
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longdog said:
Scarlet loves the Neue Schule Team Up, which NS recommended to me. She's getting a bit mouthy, trying to roll her tongue back, so I might pop a flash strap on, or try the Verbindend as her flatwork advances. Plus she's so pleased with herself when we jump that she motorbikes off round the school, so something stronger than a snaffle might be called for if we do carry on with this jumping lark!
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Yes, have a look in her mouth every day, I assume you have had her teeth done and the bit is high enough in her mouth, it is quite possible she learnt to put her tongue over the bit when racing [you see a lot of flat horses with an Australian nose-band]
Try to get her to come back to you after each jump, if you let her motor off, it will only escalate., you can have a ground pole set up both before and after the fence, so she has to concentrate. I think the distance is 10 metres, but not sure, I use "101 Jumping Exercises" [Allen and Dennis], and guess what 25 of the exercises are flat work!
oh yes, forgot to say, don't let her always jump off canter, that is advanced, trot in and pop over, trot out.
 
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Unfortunately TBs can be no quick fix but it is very good that you are asking questions and not getting frustrated.
I've had my boy 2 years and it's only been this year that i've actually made an effort with competing, schooling and getting out and about. Previously I just schooled lightly at home, hacked, took him in trips around the block in the trailer. He soon got bored of leaving home excited and returning home having done nothing other than just stand in a trailer. Every winter my boy has it 'off', this is due to having no facilities and not brilliant hacking so I just pull him out of the field and wander around the village roads onlu at weekends and then we finish. I think having this time off has really really helped him as he has chilled out so much. I was worried about taking him to shows, the first one I couldn't get his bridle on so just mooched around in his headcollar while he was 18hh tall next to me. The next was a little exciting but it improved. The last show I went to I was so pleased with him, he stood still while I chatted to my sister and he warmed up in a large field with other horses. I've just come back from RC camp and that really helped him too, he became a completely different horse and it was clear to me he tried his little heart out to please me even though he was so tired from riding twice in a day.
One thing I have learnt from my TB is patience, they like to test you sometimes but you have to rise above it and take it but encourage them to listen to you and do what you tell them to, you cannot force anything. My boy loves his praise when he gets something right, his face is like a child in a candy shop.
Good luck with your girl.
 
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