Our canter is cr@p :-(

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MizElz

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in canter, my horse hollows through her back, doesnt engage her quarters, sticks her nose in the air and evades me as much as she can! iv been trying all summer to work through this, but we dont seem to be getting any better. i know the obvious answer is to lunge her, perhaps with the use of a Pessoa, but Ellie obviously had a v v bad experience before i got her, and is terrified of the lunge. the only two times i have ever tried to lunge her, she ended up falling over
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so i refuse to attempt it again.

my instructor says stay away from draw reins, as they encourage a different kind of neck bend (it seems she needs to learn to use the top of her neck, behind her ears), and likewise the bungee. but all i know is that when i was SJing her, working her (correctly, i may add!) in draw reins was the one thing that seemed to help her realise what sort of shape she should be working in.)

I have changed her from a cheek snaffle with lozenge to a hanging snaffle, to emulate the poll action of a pelham (seeing as she goes v well in a double bridle) but she now seems to be leaning on the bit, so im gonna change it quickly back again!

I'm at my wits end now
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I would canter her in light seat only and make sure she's forward then just play with changing the tempo of the canter through your body position and forget about the hand for a while. It sounds like she almost needs to remember how to canter like a horse again?
 
Try putting her in a loose jointed ring snaffle and riding in side reins a couple of times when you are flatwork schooling and then do half a session with them on and half with out, make sure you ride her into the bridle to encourage the back end to engage. Get her working long and low to get the back stronger which will in time help with the canter work, sorry there is no quick fix option but it will be worth the wait.
 
her walk is lovely, we have had a lot of 8s for it now! trot improving, so we must be doing something right...its not perfect but she can produce some lovely steps, although finds it hard to sustain for long as she is so stiff. she finds lateral work quite tricky; we have been doing a lot of leg yielding and turn on forehands; i think she is becoming more supple, but its a long old process! its just canter that seems to be unchangeable...
 
Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with using draw reins - I use them loosely - they correct the horse when he lifts his head high but otherwise do absolutely nothing. It means you can be quieter with your hands as you don't have to work so hard to bring their head down, which in turn can make you a nicer rider. So don't not (double negative!) use them just because of the bad reputation they have.
 
Bluecat - thanks for that, long and low is definitely what we need at the mo! i didnt know you could ride with side reins on tho....is it safe???


Bossanova - i think you are right too! the canter we have is not like any iv seen elsewhere; one judge said 'needs to change canter to 3 beats, not 4' LOL. its gonna take a long time, isnt it? not easy wen you only have roads and a soggy field, and not enough hours in the day....
 
Have u had her back/teeth/saddle checked???

I felt so guilty last week as my mare was refusing to do any lateral work, can do everything beautifully, thought it was usual even for her and turns out she had a slight muscle tightening, one trip to pyhsio has loosened that up!

Honestly though time and patience is best, taken me a year to manage to get thru prelims and ready for novice tests this witner!
 
*runs and hides*
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teeth were done 3 years ago, but they were very rough with her and didnt seem to do very much; in fact none of the times we have had her teeth done has ever seemed to have any effect, other than to reinforce her hatred of the dentist! have never had back checked, as i know many who have had bad experiences, and im not sure its all its cracked up to be. on the saddle front, we have just had one fitted by a trained saddler (OMG, at least iv done something right LOL!) and that seems to be hunky dory....
 
You can ride in side reins if lunging is not an option, as long as your mare is not silly, put them on loose first of all and see how she is, then slowly take up the contact with them.
Well worth getting her back and saddle checked, might be sore preventing her from using her back in the canter.
 
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Bluecat - thanks for that, long and low is definitely what we need at the mo! i didnt know you could ride with side reins on tho....is it safe???


Bossanova - i think you are right too! the canter we have is not like any iv seen elsewhere; one judge said 'needs to change canter to 3 beats, not 4' LOL. its gonna take a long time, isnt it? not easy wen you only have roads and a soggy field, and not enough hours in the day....

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If it's 4 time then you def need it more forwards. The hand can stifle the canter big time even if it isnt strong. I wouldnt aim for long and low as that wont encourage the correct balance at the moment, she needs to canter uphill and into the bridle first and then you can ask her to soften forward to the rein. In order to do this she's got to trust the hand so the hand has to be very passive to start and just receive her when she drops her head down a bit.

Hope that makes sense!
 
[ QUOTE ]
If it's 4 time then you def need it more forwards. The hand can stifle the canter big time even if it isnt strong. I wouldnt aim for long and low as that wont encourage the correct balance at the moment, she needs to canter uphill and into the bridle first and then you can ask her to soften forward to the rein. In order to do this she's got to trust the hand so the hand has to be very passive to start and just receive her when she drops her head down a bit.

Hope that makes sense!

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oh i see.....................
last couple of lessons iv had, my instructor has basically told me to push her on in canter, dont mess with her head, and 'offer' my hands up her neck until she takes the contact. at home, iv been so strung up on trying to get some kind of outline...so in the lesson, pushing her forward means i end up feeling like im on a motorbike, with little control over speed! all i know is it FEELS bloody awful from the saddle, but both mum and my instructor say its much better when i push her on. so, i guess the long and short of it is is that (there are too many isses!) i need to forget her head, and concentrate on getting her to use herself for the moment......*makes note to leave head well alone in canter - impersonating valentino rossi far better than 'trantering' with head shaking from side to side*....

is that it!?!?!?!
 

I had the EXACT same problem with my young horse
Agree with Bossanova. Take her for a bit of a gallop out in the field, get her going forward. Once she is doing this try doing some transitions
Halt rein back walk, Halt rein back walk do this until the response to each aid is nearly immediate.
Give the rein the MOMENT she halts and take the leg pressure off the moment she moves forward.
If rein back is not spectacular, reward even if you only get one step the MOMENT she steps back. Give the rein and ask her to move foreward again.

When she is doing this responsively, let her stretch on a long rein for a reward for about 30 seconds.

Next halt, rein back, trot, halt. Same principles as above reward and ask consistantly
SHe should be more responsive to the stop and go aids so try Walk,canter, trot, walk, Halt, rein back. three times. Stop let her stretch for reward

Then
Walk canter one lead, then walk canter ask for another lead.
If this gets to hard go back a step. Then reward again

Doing these transitions will get her backside underneath her, allowing her to become more balanced in canter. You want to make sure she has self carriage in walk and trot first, before attempting canter. Then only do short amounts of canter before halting and rewarding by giving the rein


Hope this isn't to confusing!! It's hard to explain without rambling!
 
ooooooh.......that sounds really cool, i had an inkling that the key may lie in lots of transitions! thank u much! i think the reason im floundering a little is that my instructor doesnt actually want to do much in canter with us at the mo - she wants to focus on walk, trot and lateral movements, which i think is great, but i kinda feel we should be working on the canter too, even if just for a short time on each occasion, as u suggested. the other thing is that my instructor feels lunging is essential, and wont hear of me NOT doing it! she lunged ellie once a couple of weeks ago, not with much success, just in walk, but said i should be doing this with her to help strengthen her muscles. i dont deny this would be a great thing to do, but when you've got a horse flying round in circles at a gallop all of a sudden to the point that it slips and falls......i dont want to be in that situation again! call me defeatist, but id rather find other ways. and ur advice sounds great!
 
oh god!!!!!!!!! long rein!?!?!?!?!? again, it would be a perfect exercise for her, and my mum is a pro, having broken many ponies in her time, beginning with long reining......but my mare has a tendency to run backwards when something spooks her (and she is spooked OH so easily!) even mum went pale when i mentioned long reining ellie!!!!

im not painting a good pic of Elz, am i!??!?!??! she's not that bad really, just a bit...well, tricky!!!
 
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