Out of interest...

Gosh, Maggie who is fully clipped (though needs doing again) and lives in an outdoor stable, TBxID is wearing a thin fleece and a no-neck 380g stable rug. About -6 I think. I am wondering if I am crazy after reading this thread now...
 
advise for people is that thin layers work better than one very thick layer and im quite sure the same applies to horses.

i really dont think that anyone with 2 brain cells to spark off each other, is going to keep adding rugs to an already hot horse!!! hence horse must be feeling the cold, hence the rugs ARE needed.

i get so sick of people who cant accept that their way is not always the right way for every horse, esp one they have never met!

iv worked in 2 pro jumping yards and 2 pro dressage yards and in winter the horses usually work a duvet, wool blanket and full neck stable rug, and the very cold ones an extra thin stable rug. no professional in their right mind is going to do anything to compromise their source of income(their horses) so really, its clearly not an issue to layer rugs!

clearly not all horses need it, but equally some do. its interesting how the people that put on more rugs, dont go round saying "ohmygod your poor horse he must be so COLD" but the people that have only got one rug on cant resist saying "ohmygod your poor horse he must be so HOT".........

ETA-little flea, no i doubt your mad! you know if she is warm enough, so im quite sure she is wearing the appropriate number of rugs. my mums horse has always been a wimp so would be freezing in just those rugs, but as i said you know maggie so she's more than likely fine.
last winter my TB wasnt clipped as only just re-backed and he was a hot hot horse, only needed one full neck 350gm rug on at any time and was quickly back in normal neck rugs after the snowy period, but now he's clipped he's gone totally the opposite way and struggles to keep warm, and gets really tight over his back if he gets cold so im keeping him well rugged too.
my previous mare was a hot girly too, and was always in far less rugs than mums horse.
 
Millie- was clipped but grown out- lightweight Rambo.

Pilfer-blanket clipped but slightly wooly now- heavyweight Orican.

Vinnie- no clip, v.wooly- heavyweight Orican.

Millie is a tb but is quite 'hot' and doesn't need a lot.

Pilfer normally gets cold, but seems fine this winter- i presume because it is dry cold and not a lot of wind.

Vinnie is a bad doer hence the coat and heavy rug- he also gets lots of racehorse haylage, sugarbeet and alfalfa.
 
Quite right P_S-
It does depend on the horse-Usually the horses that are rugged well according to their need always look much better/rounder/healthier/shinier. Some, ( not all!) horses that are under rugged always seem to look poor and lack condition.
And the minute you underrug them, they drop condition...it happens over night, but you have to have a trained eye to be able to recognise it!

Some of my old horses were truely hot horses ( all thoroughbreds co-incidentally!) and would only have the one rug on when the others ( including the warmblood/irish sport horse!) had 2 or 3 so it really is horses for courses , not one rule for all.
 
O_B i asbsolutely agree and cant bear to see tucked up horses with dull stary coats who are so obviously cold and only in one rug.thats not accusing anyone on here but i see far more of that, than of over hot horses. admittedly im not on a livery yard, but at comps/clinic etc i see many cold stiff horses comming off lorries/standing on lorries and hardly ever see over hot horses.
 
Both mine are Pure Bred Arabs, but very good doers and quite 'hot' horses, so...

The White One, hunter clipped (half face and legs on) has a 450g stable rug with neck at night time and a 350g outdoor rug with neck.... althoguh I did feel mean and have ordered him a 450g turnout rug and just waiting for it to arrive, but he's only going out a few hours in the snow so not too worried.

He is very warm to the touch under his rug and well covered
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The Old Boy is not clipped at all and has a fleece with neck and a Bucas Medium Stable over the top, and a 350g Rambo for outside.... he isn't as warm to the touch, but well covered and having warm Alfa Beet so ok too

Think it's very much individual per horse as some on our yard wear 4 rugs over night and are not hot!

Also bear in mind that dirty rugs are not as warm as they loose their breathability - also older rugs loose a bit of stuffing over time too!
 
OMG - call the RSPCA quick - look at the poor, tucked up horses in the cold with NO rugs on!
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PS: The chestnut is 25 years old and 7/8 TB
 
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advise for people is that thin layers work better than one very thick layer and im quite sure the same applies to horses.

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As always... each to their own and all. And for humans, the above is true, a few thinner layers will be warmer than one thick one as there is a layer of insulating air inbetween each layer.

However, I'd say that rugging horses is different to clothing humans. Firstly, we can choose what clothes feel comfy layered on top of each other and adjust to suit ourselves!
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And secondly, I'm not convinced that every person who is layering 3+ rugs onto their horses is taking into account the fact that the top rug will surely need to be a size bigger than normal to account for the extra layers underneath? Putting on a normal size will just put extra pressure on pressure points and restrict the horse's movement?
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Also, putting fleece/cotton lined layers on can't be good either as when they are next to each other, they will "stick" rather than two nylon layers next to each other which will glide smoothly over each other. I've seen plenty horses where fleece has been used as a layer and it's ended up pulled right back and is hanging out the back of the rug (to get wet and cold) and putting pressure on their shoulders/withers.
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As I said to start with, each to their own and yes, some horses need more/less than others, but I do feel there are a lot of horses out there very over rugged.
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yes I agree with O_B and P_S, my horses are very well rugged and their coats shine like mirrors. They are not too hot as they never sweat.....

Some one posted asking what to feed for a glossy coat for showing, but really rugging well is just as important
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Oh, I wouldn't be so sure about people "never" putting their two cents in re horses wearing only one rug.
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The horse I have here now (KWPNxTB) lived out 24/7 and unrugged through many a Canadian winter. Yes, when he was clipped and in he was rugged but when he was at his breeders over the winter no rug, no shoes. In weather much colder than we're having now. And hardly the only one, even their TB broodmares and young stock were out without rugs and almost every breeder I know in Canada does similarly. When I started horses in the winter I never clipped them, as it was so cold to do slow work and I felt they did better with full coats or maybe a bib clip, and some were even unblanketed in the barn.

The secret is free choice hay and proper shelter. Wet horses are miserable, horses in the cold, allowed to prepare properly and kept well, are not necessarily miserable.

I've recently moved him to another yard here and in both this one and the last (both lovely and full of super people) there has been universal horror over him wearing only one rug (he's unclipped), even if it is a hw with a liner. Where he is now they actually put his cooler on underneath his rug just because they couldn't believe I wasn't going to layer.
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I would also disagree that blankets have no downside, especially if they're heavy. I've definitely seen horses made sore on their shoulder and across their withers. Obviously this is a fit issue but it stands to reason if you layer blankets of the same size, it's a bit like layering socks - good in moderation, uncomfortable if done to excess. I do think you see this less with modern blankets and I agree it's trickier here because you can't get as wide a range of individual blanket weights, but I don't think it's something to ignore either.

As far as pros never doing anything to compromise their horses . . . well.
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That's absolutely not a dig against pros but I've been in enough yards to know that some of them tend to have relatively rigid practices and the feeling is "good" horses will fit in, which probably has some validity.

As you say, to each their own and things like blanketing have to be taken in context of the whole system. Also, horses are VERY adaptable and will go with what you give them, so long as the right balance is struck and they're assessed by an experienced, sympathetic eye.
 
Mine has 3 on, a HWT Amigo stable rug (though its not that thick!) a MWT rhino Wug and a heavyweight amigo turnout with a lwt neck cover on. She is fully clipped (did her on sunday with fine blades) with legs left on
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I am sure we are all trying to get it right for our horses and stable environments differ a lot. Mine is quite cosy, with 4 horses all helping to heat the space up, and no wind just now so no drafts.
There are a couple of horses on the hill above our farm, and they are out 24/7 with no rugs. They do have shelter and hay and really don't seem in bad shape. They look like teddy bears.
So it's what they are used too I guess.
 
if the horse out in the cold IS looking miserable and tucked up, then shame on the owner!

if however its furry as a teddy,warm and happy then i have no problem with that in the slightest, i am not syaing all horses should be in multiple rugs, and that is half my point-i dont go round telling people how to look after their horses so why the hell people feel the need to have a dig at me(and others) i dont know.most threads like this are started out of idle curiousity or to gauage if someones horse may or may not need an extra rug that night, but it invariably ends up with whoever has the most rugs on, being hailed as a stupid novice with no idea about how horses function.i for one have not managed to kill any horses yet, so must be doing something right!!!!!
 
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most threads like this are started out of idle curiousity or to gauage if someones horse may or may not need an extra rug that night,

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Idle curiosity, fair enough, but I have never understood the point of them from a 'should I put another rug on (or off)' point of view.

I don't know, no-one knows but the owner and people who can see and feel the horse, so why the hell ask on an internet forum? Is it in case one makes the wrong choice - so they feel better and can say 'well I did everything I could'?

It baffles me - sometimes we make the wrong choice of rugs, it's rarely the end of the world, especially with modern breathable rugs and owners checking the horses daily. So you know, what, get over it, learn how hot and cold your horse is as an individual and stop looking for other people who can neither see or feel your horse to validate your decisions because when they don't people seem to get very upset - do they not trust their own judgment and that of more experienced people around them?!
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(BTW this is not aimed at any specific person, it's a general feeling I have about these hot/cold/wet/dry/sunny/muddy/icy posts).
 
Um, no, that was not my point. Sorry you took it that way. It was only to the assertion that people don't interfere with what they feel to be too little rugging - my experience is exactly the opposite. When I tell people here that horses has live out unrugged in Canada they clearly think I'm making it up.
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Each horse is an individual surely, and some feel the cold more than others. Mine is fine in a heavyweight turnout with a light stable rug underneath, others would be cold and would need more. I find if they get used to what they are wearing they can regulate their bodies accordingly. I don't like to chop and change rugs too much unless the weather changes dramatically. My old horse was prone to azorturia and had to be kept warm at all times, she wore a lot of layers and was never clipped out.
 
Tarrsteps, a really really good friend of mine from Vancouver used to say that they left their horses out with no rugs as late as possible in the year so that they would grow the kind of coat that would keep them warm enough all winter. Otherwise, she was adamant that the rugs wouldn't do the job - it was the coat she worried about. She was also the person who taught me to hairdry the horses when they're sweaty!
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And it doesn't actually GET cold in Vancouver! It does rain a lot though, and more people blanket as a matter of course just to keep the horses dry. A fluffy coat and a very light weight waterproof is quite standard practice.

Some QH people I worked for had the BEST invention. It was like a blanket with a piece under the stomach as well, that had an attachment for a vacuum hose. You put the vacuum on "blow" (I think you could also get a heated fan for it) and pumped the blanket full of circulating air!!! It dried them off, that's for sure.
 
My two are unclipped and live out. The fatter of the 2 is wearing a MW with hood, the skinny one is wearing a 4560g PE turnout with hood.
 
My unclipped TBx is out during the day, in at night, in a 200g Amigo turnout.
She doesn't do HW rugs or layers and loses weight dramatically and gets VERY grumpy if too warm!
 
It was -20 with us yesterday and -16 with us today. All my four are fully clipped and only wear two rugs at night:

Alfred: TB x DWB (7) - 200g stable rug with a 200g t/o rug on top, plus stable wraps (which wears all year anyway).

Amber: Selle Francais x TB (4) - 150 g stable rug with 200 g stable rug on top

Toby: Bavarian warmblood (12) - 40 g stable rug with 200 g turnout on top

Phanta (30!) - Highland x ID - 150g underrug with 200g stable rug on top, plus leg wraps (p.s. she's fully clipped for health reasons).

Snug as a bug - the whole lot of them!

All bottom layer rugs stay on when they get changed for going out so they don't have a cold rug hitting them!
 
Alfie: Fully clipped and wears a WB pearl bond fleece rug, double duvet and WB MW stable rug

Benji: V low trace clip and wears 2 coolers and a full neck WB MW combo.

Tilly: Unclipped but very fine coated and wears a summer sheet, double duvet and a WB MW stable rug.

Evie: Unclipped but very fine coated and wears a WB LW stable rug and a full neck MW Amigo turnout.

Twirl: Fully clipped and wears just a MW Amigo turnout with neck

Islay: Blanket clip which has almost grown out and wear a weatherbeeta MW T/O with neck.
 
My 3 are all TB's and all blanket clipped.

Darcy - turned out 24/7 regardless of weather
Med weight stable - 250g - have only put this on now in snow, normally just in 100g liner.
Med weight full neck t/o - 250g

Pinky - also out 24/7
100g liner
Heavy weight full neck outdoor - 340g - again just on due to snow, usually just a Med weight full neck - 250g.

Rascal - stabled at night.
Stable rug - 250g
MW full neck outdoor - 250g - he has this on morning and night at the mo but will go back to just med weight outdoor when out and a heavy weight stable at night as soon as snow goes.

Never have probs keeping weight on mine, in fact I have had to cut their feeds back slightly as they are all on the plump side..! They do get a LOT of hay in the field to eat and never, ever feel cold. I only upped the rug weights they were wearing as a precaution but I don't think I needed to bother as Darcy and Pinky are now both roasting under their rugs and I'm slightly worried they are too warm...!
 
DA WB, unclipped - Amigo insulator under a HW WB high neck, lives out with access to stable
Dubh ISH, Unclipped - LW stable rug under MW Amigo TO
Gus pony - growing out a neck & belly, fat, fluffy & naked

We're hovering between -6 &-14
 
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Um, no, that was not my point. Sorry you took it that way. It was only to the assertion that people don't interfere with what they feel to be too little rugging - my experience is exactly the opposite. When I tell people here that horses has live out unrugged in Canada they clearly think I'm making it up.
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Agreed. Fact is rug companies do a LOT of research and they know what they are talking about too...having HW rugs over HW rugs is absolutely pointless and just makes it uncomfortable for the horse...FACT. I have seen far too many horses with sores and rubs that were completely unnecessary. I too have worked for very high profile International owners/riders and believe me, they are far more my way than yours PrincessSparkle. You want to cover your horse in loads of rugs, that is your choice, all I said was I still am rather taken aback by how much people rug in this country, and don't actually understand the science in it all....I didn't grow up here!
 
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