Outline Help (sorry a bit clueless)!!

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Moomin_and_Holly

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Can anyone give me some advice on how to achieve a nice outline??

I have a 15.1 cob who I've owned for 10 months. I don't think I am confident enough in my riding ability to use draw reins. I've put a pic on so you can see - i think my hands aren't low enough?? Maisey tends to carry her head quite high and her neck muscles look a bit upside down (if that makes any sense).

Constructive critiscm welcome but go easy on me.

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long reining is a good place to start! also don't think about yr hands being low - you need to lift yr horse into an outline!

Ty is getting there in walk but it does hurt their muscles to work like that so take it easy to start with - I'd say 10 minute bursts really.

I'm not expert and I'm sure better riders will have more advice but it's all about getting the impulsion from behind as opposed to worrying about getting their heads down straight away.....
 
Need to think about pushing her upwards and forwards. Outline comes from behind and once she's pushing herself forward you'll find she's slowly begin to round up and over. Obviously this will be harder as she's a cob type. Try to think that you're riding up hill when you're schooling even in an arena

Ride her forwards into a contact, as in have a contact, but not too tight that you're forcing her head down. It'll take time and practise, especially if she's not been asked work that way before
 
Maisey looks adorable! Personally, I would avoid using draw reins if at all possible - remember that if you have any doubts about how good your hands are, draw reins will emphasise the aids rather than make them softer - which Maisey may resent. Like a lot of artifical aids, draw reins are best left to the professional - or perhaps to be used for limited periods under instruction. To help her develop the right muscles, why don't you try lunging her with side reins on - reasonably loose until she gets used to it - and building up her muscles. You need to make sure she doesn't get tired to start with as she uses new muscles. Perhaps you can lunge her in a nice outline, then sit on her for 5 minutes at the end of a session and encourage her to work the same way for you.

Main thing is really not to overdo it to start with - reeducating Maisey to go in a different way will take time. All the best!
 
I would suggest is to get yourself a really good instructor.

Please don’t go down the draw rein route as it could all end in tears and a very uncomfortable horse.
 
Awww, thank you. I was just saying about lunging. Any comments on pessoas?

As I have said I really don't like the idea of using draw reins certainly not until my riding has improved a great deal.

I know we're not going to be doing anything like competing but i really would like to do what's best for Maisey. I think tuition for me would really help but sadly we don't have much of a school (more a grass paddock).

Thanks again.
 
Not lunging, long reining - lunging won't help her work in an outline but it will help her with bending.

She will get a bit stiff working in an outline so take it easy.

Agree with the draw reins comments - leave alone if you can.

And definately get a good instructor....
 
Firstly, get yourself a good flatwork teacher. I cant emphasize this enough as you need someone on the ground to help you out. People on here can always post advice but unless they see how you are riding and how the horse works, it's always going to be of limited use.

Don't go down the route of using gadgets. If you want to read some interesting stuff about they effect they can have, look at a thread a few posts down from this one.(http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1618027/an/0/page/0#1618027)

Most gadgets are just a quick fix to getting the horse's neck to curl which isn't what you want.

As others have said, getting a horse to work correctly comes from getting them working from behind. Forget about her head initially and work on getting her listening to your leg and really responsive. Make sure that after you have asked her to go forwards and she responds, you take your leg off again. You need to make her realise that doing as she is asked is the most comfortable option and that will only come from leaving her alone after she's done as you have asked. You want her at the stage where she responds to the slightest leg aid from you (to the extent that others cant see you apply them).

You need to keep a good constant contact with your hands. Keep your elbows bent softly at your sides and learn to allow your arms to work as a pulley system. Don't be tempted to bury your hands down by her shoulder to pull her down into an outline as this will just drop her onto her forhand.

A good outline for a horse is a result of good riding and a good position by the rider. It's hard to judge from that picture how you ride, but perhaps consider some lunge lessons mixed in with your flatwork lessons so you learn to sit correctly. Alternatively, lessons on equisimulators can be invaluable and really eye opening to how influential the riders body position is.
 
Thanks very much Teirra. Maisey is v responsive to just the slightest amount of leg aid - so I guess I won't need to do too much work on that but I think your right about lunge lessons.

I really appreciate your advice and help.
 
Id be trying to bring your elbows back a touch from that picture so they hang softly at your sides... You look a teensy bit tense through your arms to me, but equally, she looks like she's on a bit of a mission there
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Make sure you keep your hands facing towards her nose with your thumbs on top... its the softest way to hold the reins.

Im not a huge advocate of playing with the reins, but at the most, you want to be squeezing your reins gently (alternate reins). It should feel like you're squeezing a sponge ever so slightly. Dont open your fingers enough that the reins could slip through your hands - loose reins dont help
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If shes strong, use your body to keep her steady. In rising trot you can slow your rising. Be sure you allow her to move underneath you. Dont push excessively with your seat as you want her to lift her back and round underneath you - she wont do this if you're pushing against her. Equally in rising trot, your upper body should be *slightly* ahead of the vertical (which it looks like it is), as this will allow you to sit more softly.

Also, id start introducing her to half halts as it starts to make her lighter infront. Clench your bottom muscles and sit deeply - thinking stop. When she starts to slow, push her forward again. Eventually you want her responding to nothing more than your seat, but this could take a while. Half halts should re-distribute the horses weight from the front end to the back.

Again though, Id really try and get some lessons. Please dont be tempted to use gadgets, you dont need them. And dont get caught up with what her head is doing
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It's easy to fall into the trap of focussing too much on where her head is and believing that unless her neck is curled, then she's not working nicely. A good head position will only come from correct work so just try and put it to the back of your mind
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There's no quick fix for this, it takes a lot of time & schooling. Some people use various gadgets, I'm not a fan of them & in inexperienced hands they can do more harm than good,

We could talk all day about what you need to do but the best thing is to get a quality flatwork instructor. Flatwork is the key to all the disciplines. With loads of transitions, leg yielding, shoulder fore etc your horse will start to soften through her back & start to use herself correctly. She'll flex her hocks & bring then underneath herself to support & balance herself. She's push herself forward, be lighter in your hands & start to carry herself correctly. It'll take time because her 'upside down neck' as you call it has to break down. She will need to lose the muscle under her neck & build up muscle on top. It takes time & dedication but the results are great. Most important though is get a quality instyructor who understands you & Maisey. Good Luck
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i've been having the same issue, my stubborn 5yr old just sticks her nose out, but we're getting on top of it. what worked with us is lots of cicle work using mainly leg aids, they start to drop their head by themselves!
 
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