Over jumping, with dangly legs...

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Llanali

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Afternoon!

My mare is 5 now, and has been out and about having a bash at some BN classes.
She's been doing well, a couple of 4 fault rounds in jump offs (poles, not stops) and two double clears.

For a while, I've felt like I'm flying out the saddle when jumping her. It's on the descent that I really feel left behind, and I know years ago I did have a fault of bringing my weight back to early. I think I've possibly slipped back into this...have tried to hold forward for longer but it feels like we are launchign to space.

However, someone mentioned to me that no wonder I felt like she was jumping me out the saddle- she literally ballooning over fences!!

See this....

http://www.waynejonesphotographic.com/photo8710082.html#photo

http://www.waynejonesphotographic.com/photo8710090.html#photo

Please don't be too harsh on that second pic in particular- I know I'm too tight on the rein there and my leg has swung.


She appears to have decided launching into the stratosphere is more fun than picking front legs up.

So, ideas for position assistance for me please, and ideas to make her bend her knees and not dangle her forearms, getting out of it by flying....

Thanks all.
 
Put up a straight bar and then place two poles into a V shape (one end of each pole on the ground, other ends resting on the straight bar). Start with them fairly wide apart, maybe 2ft wide on the straight bar and then push them in. This channelling effect should make her snap up her front legs a lot more. Looks much better in first photo - seems to be on a better stride and not so close. Make sure you're riding in a good forward rhythm, so she jumps up and forwards - if you get too close she'll just balloon upwards. Lots of work over fences so she realises it's pointless over jumping should help.
 
I used to have this problem with my boy but he has started to grow out of the habit over the years. 4-6yrs it was very apparent, but hes rising 9 now and beginning to jump alot more like a normal horse! :)
 
As above suggested, he might just find the jumps a bit easy and not feel the need to snap up!

In regard to the poles falling, I'd try and get him to bring his head down a bit more so he makes more shape and uses his back as he looks a little hollow in the second.

As for your position, I think you should concentrate on your lower leg as this may make you feel more balanced and less 'clinging on'. Do you have an instructor?
 
Millie used to jump like this and still does occasionally- she looked like a proper hurdler with her knees together and punching her forelegs forwards!

we have done the usual gridwork with bounces, high crosses, crosspole oxers and poles on the ground in between which seems to have improved her a lot.

However, I'm not sure all horses can change- my friend's horse has the most horrendous dangly legs from the knee down (knees always up and together) and he got to 3*** eventing and his technique actually improved the worse the stride you put him on- weird horse!
 
Louisesb- thank you very much. Taht's what my instructor and experienced YO has suggested. A frames- or V frames, call them as you will LOL, and much more jumping. I dont jump often enough apparently, and I do think these people are probably right.

Showjumperxo- thank you. Yes, that photo is hollow- it was shown to depict the worst if youb see what I mean. She's partly hollow because she took a bit of a hold and I couldn't adjust the canter well enough, so stride was pants, and she's hollow and lifted through her head because I'm clamped on the reins like a twerp!! The poles don't usually fall- fell in first round where she had 4 faults because I screwed up her line, and fell in second because she backed off scary fence and I totally failed to do anything about it till it was a bit late- she went, but not with enough 'go' to clear the rail in front..
Think you're definitely onto something with the leg comment- something I will work on outside of my lessons.

Millitiger- exactly- on some photos she looks just like a hurdler! I've done gridwork which has improved her- but I hadn't considered cross pole oxers, so thanks muchly for that tip, and I'll try that tonight!

Hopefully, BBR, she will improve like yours did btu atleast as Millitiger's friend's one shows- they can still be good, even if they do always 'fly'!
 
Hi Llanali :)

Something I found really helped my position was to put my stirrups up to jockey length (top hole, with the leather wrapped round the stirrup iron a couple of times) and jump like that! It's sooo painful on your legs, but your balance is spot on as if you get it wrong you fall off :rolleyes:

When I could do that, I then had to knot my reins and let go of them over the jump, which had my horse making a much nicer shape over the fence. Might not wanna try this on a baby but if you have a schoolmaster you could have a lesson on, might be worth a go?
 
We had a spotty horse that everyone used to joke about and say that we would know when we had reached his limit as he would have to start bending his knees. Never happened, but we only got as far as 1.25s with him.
 
Kickonchaps,

I think the stirrups up might help- thanks! But I feel I might give the poor mare a heart attack if I dropped the rains- or at least me one, anyway!

Dieseldog- this makes me feel happier!!

However, I am still jumping her in my 'backing' saddle- a Wintec CC. I don't think this supports me very well- am I doing a -bad workmen blames his tools' if I were to look at saddles as possibly being part of issue?

I've never had these position problems on another horse, but then I've also never jumped another horse is one of these...previosuly had GFS, Pessoa and Stubbens....
 
The Welsh ex broodmare I had last year had a very similar tendency to balloon her fences, and actually did jump me out the saddle once or twice... Didn't help that she was very looky too!
Examples here, feel free to giggle: http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...235192075076_542700075_14327817_2694302_n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/45850_659129355192_286103527_8660341_5186129_n.jpg:D

The best exercises I was suggested were grid work with canter poles (before and between jumps) and jumping cross poles on a circle (at 12 o clock, 4 o clock and 8 o clock if that makes sense). V poles didn't work for us, she picked her feet up but just launched higher and kicked out with her back end :p

If it makes you feel any better, she also had that saddle (too obese for anything else!) and I really thought it hindered me - my lower leg which was always reasonably secure started wobbling around all over the shop!

Good luck with your mare, she looks sweet :)
 
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Well, from what i can see, you do look to be slightly behind the movement over the fences. That said, the horse isn't helping you much either. He needs to lower his head and use his back and shoulders more over the fence too. I'd try A frames and placing poles...anything to get him to lower his nose over the fence...and as someone else said, try shortening your stirrups a bit too. Do you ride with a deep seat between fences, or in a light seat ? You could try practising a light seat on the flat to get used to having your shoulders forward more :)
 
See picture below, we never got the technique any better, he just jumped bigger.

I think he has a tight back and weak back end, so this was his style. If he'd tuck his legs up he'd have won me a lot more money & gone further.

I had to learn a rather defensive seat to stay on board.
Good luck with yours, hope it develops with age.

IMG_6096.jpg
 
Her knees are nicely up in the 2 pictures where she has enough freedom of her head and neck. That is the important part and probably the lower limb will tidy up as you start to jump bigger. In the other picture you are supporting yourself on the rein so she has tightened her neck and dropped her shoulders and forearms. The gag accentuates this and it will affect her in that she won't know when she is going to have her head and when she is going to be restricted. Try to consistently allow with the hand, possibly turning your hand the other way on the rein so the thumb and forefinger is nearest the bit.
 
DollyDolls- I think I'd have fallen off from that!!
Benji- yes, see that's what I feel she's doing.

Rambo adn Oldvic- I think you are both correct. Looking at these, she does need to stretch over her top line, but I am very much restricting her. Not intentional, and I am trying to be better on her.

I'll definitely try stirrups up, and Duckling, I've done that exercise before on another mare, but for some reason hadn't thought to employ it here- will give it a whirl, so thanks for the prompt.

I think perhaps you are right Oldvic, adn trying with my hand the other way may help. I think I've gotten a bit defensive as she's so liable to launch, and she catches me off guard. NO excuse really. DO you think I should change the gag? Especially until I can learn to jump nicely?

It's depressing. Before I had my four year break from riding, I never had these sorts of problems, I jumped competitively, fairly successfully- not Olympia mind you LOL- but never with these issues. I could see a stride, I could avoid fiddling, and I was always forward.

Think I've come back from my break worse than ever.
 
duckling said:
If it makes you feel any better, she also had that saddle (too obese for anything else!) and I really thought it hindered me - my lower leg which was always reasonably secure started wobbling around all over the shop!

Good luck with your mare, she looks sweet :)
Click to expand...

Thank you for the last, it's cheered me up!

So maybe it's not too much of a cop out to imagine the saddle might not be helping much?
 
Gags certainly are more inclined to make them stiffen their neck but you have to decide whether you will find it more difficult to allow if she is stronger in a milder bit. Of course, some horses are less strong in something softer or you could perhaps try a different mouthpiece without the gag action. Jumping grids, coming in in trot and allowing her to find her way through is a good way to get into the way of giving her freedom to jump. Also try cantering a circle round a fence and, when the canter is staying balanced and even, take in the fence without changing then go back to the circle. You can vary it by passing either side of the fence, then cantering amongst a group of fences and jumping when the canter feels right, concentrating on rhythm and balance and waiting for the stride to appear rather than looking for it.
 
oldvic said:
Gags certainly are more inclined to make them stiffen their neck but you have to decide whether you will find it more difficult to allow if she is stronger in a milder bit. Of course, some horses are less strong in something softer or you could perhaps try a different mouthpiece without the gag action. Jumping grids, coming in in trot and allowing her to find her way through is a good way to get into the way of giving her freedom to jump. Also try cantering a circle round a fence and, when the canter is staying balanced and even, take in the fence without changing then go back to the circle. You can vary it by passing either side of the fence, then cantering amongst a group of fences and jumping when the canter feels right, concentrating on rhythm and balance and waiting for the stride to appear rather than looking for it.
Click to expand...


This last is something I have done a lot of with this mare, due to her previous tendency to hammer into fences flat out. I have sorted this now, and she jumps from a far better rhythm. Not perfect at all times, but not running flat out.

I started jumping her in a plastic snaffle, that she used for flat work. I hate three ring gags, with an absolute passion, but she likes it. She will not work in a straight bar of any type, and I had ears up nose in waterford type mouthpieces. She doesn't like nutcracker, so that is a french link. She also doesn't like ports- at least not of the myler variety.

Any other ideas bit wise? Open to options- she schools in a cyprium french link eggbutt.
 
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