Over-rugging..........

[nosenseofdirection]

It's interesting to see that other people's Arabs feel the cold! Mine doesn't! To be fair if it is wet and windy as well as cold she has a rain sheet or she will come in a bit tucked up but otherwise she has nothing until it is about -5. She gets extra hay though and has never dropped weight in the winter unless on a diet.

 

[chocolategirl]

I'm a yard owner and have almost fifty years of horse experience (started very early!) under my belt - I'm not a numpty! I simply cannot believe how many rugs my liveries put on their horses! For example....livery complained her unclipped traditional cob hadn't dried off after returning from a ride sweaty yesterday morning - he'd had two rugs on in his stable overnight but she wouldn't agree with me that he simply had too many rugs overnight - she was convinced he was still sweaty from yesterday...another heavy cob had two rugs overnight plus medium weight high neck turnout during the day - came in sweating this afternoon.......Dartmoor with two stable rugs was sweating this morning........Section A was sweating tonight (owner was worried about colic - no......over-rugged). One TB currently has FOUR rugs on........I could go on, but I won't.........opinions, please!

I once had a livery who,s horse was sooooo over rugged it used to sweat very heavily during the night, so much so that by the time she came to see to him in the morning, his top rug (1 of 4!!) would be literally drenched! She tried to convince me that his stable roof was leaking and that was the only possible explanation for the top rug being wet!it was absolutely unbelievable! I tried to explain to her that modern fibre filled rugs have a 'wicking' effect and what was probably happening, was that the moisture from his sweating was wicking up through all his layers and by morning had reached his top rug where it stopped.the rugs underneath were always dry.she wouldn't have any of it and insisted that I spray a hosepipe onto the stable roof where she sat on a chair and watched and waited for the water to pour through.it was hilarious! The fact that his bed was always dry didn't convince her or the fact that when she was actually in the stable with him and the rain was pouring down and yes you guessed it, did not come through the roof still wouldn't make her admit that it could be down to her over rugging!! What the hell is wrong with people? Whilst I'm sure it probably doesn't actually do horses any harm, what I do know is it makes them as miserable as sin. That poor horse used to stand with his head resting on his door grunting and groaning under the weight and warmth of his rug and it used to break my heart. My old vet who is sadly no longer with us, told me many many years ago 'no horse ever died of the cold'! I have always tried to bear this in mind when rugging my own horses.

 

[Polos]

My horse is fully clipped and is in a lightweight 180g turnout and stable rug. He is not cold so simply does not need to be wearing any more rugs at the moment. I am obviously a mean owner!

I had to stop myself earlier, someone on fb had said that their 8 year old KWPN was currently wearing a 400g with neck rug and was asking if they should put a mediumweight or another heavyweight on to make her horse warmer!!!

 

[NinjaPony]

I would just like to point out that rugging up your horse in more than a lightweight does not automatically make you a bad/paranoid/overprotective owner.
Obviously, if your horse is sweating then that's too many rugs....
But if they are warm, not hot, in their rugs then I don't think that's an issue at all.
My two ponies are fully clipped, one is in a 350g with a fleece on as its going down to 2 degrees and the other has a 450g, I added a fleece tonight as when I stuck my hand in he wasn't warm but equally I didn't want to go up a weight. This is overnight. In the day they are both in 300g combos as it hasn't been going above 10. I can assure you that my ponies are not sweaty and unhappy but comfortably warm....

 

[Moomin1]

I would just like to point out that rugging up your horse in more than a lightweight does not automatically make you a bad/paranoid/overprotective owner.
Obviously, if your horse is sweating then that's too many rugs....
But if they are warm, not hot, in their rugs then I don't think that's an issue at all.
My two ponies are fully clipped, one is in a 350g with a fleece on as its going down to 2 degrees and the other has a 450g, I added a fleece tonight as when I stuck my hand in he wasn't warm but equally I didn't want to go up a weight. This is overnight. In the day they are both in 300g combos as it hasn't been going above 10. I can assure you that my ponies are not sweaty and unhappy but comfortably warm....

Stuck your hand in where exactly?!!

 

[NinjaPony]

The back of the rug, the front of the rug and his neck cover. I see no reason why it is ludicrous to put an extra layer on a recently fully clipped pony in roughly 2 degrees, and no reason at all why I need to justify the way I treat my ponies. I am prepared to put as few/many rugs on as my ponies need, if one is too hot then a layer is removed, or the weight is dropped. My Connemara never needed more than his heavyweight (450g) stable rug during the whole of winter, including at minus 10 degrees, fully clipped, because he always felt snug so there was no need.
I think that some people love to take a holier than thou attitude when it comes to rugging, whilst failing to understand that every horse is different. Like I said, obviously if your horse is sweating then you are doing it wrong.

 

[Mardy Mare]

I'm with the opinion that less is more. My fully clipped TB x Hanoverian is currently out in the day in a LW no neck and 1 MW no neck stable rug at night.

I've seen horses with 4 rugs on which were so heavy, I cannot imagine how horrid it felt to have that weight constantly pulling on the withers and chest.

Yes, layering does trap air. However, one good quality rug will be just as good, if not much better. Think of sleeping bags- a proper, good quality one is much better than a cheap one. I've camped in English winters with just a sleeping bag and I survived!

I'm also not a fan of stable rugs with necks. I can see some turned-out horse's may appreciate it when the weather is blowing a gale. But for use in the stable, I think its unnecessary. I try to imagine being fully wrapped in a thick polo neck with my hair stuck to my neck- must be awful!

 

[Goldenstar]

Honestly I really don't understand why rugging is an emotive subject of course it's dim to have a fat hairy native in a heavy wieght rug but a horse that in hard work and carrying very little body fat and is clipped will need rugging to keep it warm and its muscles in good nick.
There's also no point in under rugging the slim it just costs money just as there's no point in over rugging the fat and then soaking their hay.
But acting as though every horse wearing a heavyweight rug belongs to an over protective nutter is silly .

 

[risky business]

I really don't think horses need rugs as heavy as doubled up MW and HW...

When I bought my mare her old owner used to rug her with 3 rugs at one period of time all very heavy in weight.

When I got her I thought it was a joke and slowly started weaning her off them, each winter leaving her longer before rugging and losing a layer or two each winter.

Over time she grew a much bigger coat herself and was able to not feel the cold in just the one lighter weight rug.

Eventually she went naked and stayed that way for a good few years and was never cold. You turn horses into whimps rugging them.

 

[Goldenstar]

I really don't think horses need rugs as heavy as doubled up MW and HW...

When I bought my mare her old owner used to rug her with 3 rugs at one period of time all very heavy in weight.

When I got her I thought it was a joke and slowly started weaning her off them, each winter leaving her longer before rugging and losing a layer or two each winter.

Over time she grew a much bigger coat herself and was able to not feel the cold in just the one lighter weight rug.

Eventually she went naked and stayed that way for a good few years and was never cold. You turn horses into whimps rugging them.

If a horse is fit carrying very little body fat and clipped it will need rugging

 

[Moomin1]

If a horse is fit carrying very little body fat and clipped it will need rugging

Yes, just not to ridiculous excesses.

 

[Goldenstar]

Yes, just not to ridiculous excesses.

Of course but horses do vary enormously tired horses often feel cold one of mine was cold when he returned from the opening meet they had got seriously soaked and had had to stand in the rain for a fait while .
Later at home he did not look happy I put my arm under his rug and instead of feeling heat rising from his big quarter muscles I felt cold I put a thermatex neck hood on him and two thermatexs in forty minutes he was happy horse .
You have to check , adjust for conditions especially when you have a horse carrying little fat .
too cold is as bad as too hot .

 

[Starbucks]

Goldenstar I totally agree with you! We've kept hunters for 30 years (I can only account for 20 of those, but my mother agrees!) and I'm not going to start putting less rugs on my hunters just because some dicks like to make their fat cobs who do bigger all sweaty! As soon as they are clipped and hunting they need to be kept nice and warm. Not hot!! FFS!!

 

[WelshD]

I swear before long someone will say not only is their horse fully clipped and out in the cold but that they have skinned him and he is stood in his skeleton and muscles in a snowdrift.

Whoever said earlier its the new barefoot is spot on

 

[Moomin1]

Of course but horses do vary enormously tired horses often feel cold one of mine was cold when he returned from the opening meet they had got seriously soaked and had had to stand in the rain for a fait while .
Later at home he did not look happy I put my arm under his rug and instead of feeling heat rising from his big quarter muscles I felt cold I put a thermatex neck hood on him and two thermatexs in forty minutes he was happy horse .
You have to check , adjust for conditions especially when you have a horse carrying little fat .
too cold is as bad as too hot .

Yes I agree.

I have just yet to meet any horse, in 26 years of being around them, who has required 2/3 hw's, with mediumweights/fleeces underneath also in normal UK temperatures. Clipped/ill/well or otherwise.

I await with interest the day I do come across one.

 

[Moomin1]

Goldenstar I totally agree with you! We've kept hunters for 30 years (I can only account for 20 of those, but my mother agrees!) and I'm not going to start putting less rugs on my hunters just because some dicks like to make their fat cobs who do bigger all sweaty! As soon as they are clipped and hunting they need to be kept nice and warm. Not hot!! FFS!!

The thread is about over rugging. Not rugging.

 

[Goldenstar]

Yes I agree.

I have just yet to meet any horse, in 26 years of being around them, who has required 2/3 hw's, with mediumweights/fleeces underneath also in normal UK temperatures. Clipped/ill/well or otherwise.

I await with interest the day I do come across one.

Like in all things forming opinions based on extremes rarely works .
As with all things with horses you have to judge each horse in the situation they are in .
I left my clipped TB this afternoon for an hour with no rug after he had worked it was a nice still afternoon and the sun was shining in his box now he's back in his heavyweight .

 

[Goldenstar]

The thread is about over rugging. Not rugging.

staying 'on thread ' has never been an requirement of HHO .

 

[Starbucks]

Yes I agree.

I have just yet to meet any horse, in 26 years of being around them, who has required 2/3 hw's, with mediumweights/fleeces underneath also in normal UK temperatures. Clipped/ill/well or otherwise.

I await with interest the day I do come across one.

Who's actually said that though? At -20 mine might have a liner, HW indoor and HW outdoor rug on, so I guess you are right that would be 2 HW rugs. I do t see why that would be such a bad thing though, so long as he wasn't to warm?

If he was off work I'd have no issue chucking him out with no clip and no rug, but it's completely different when you have lean, shaved horses who are working hard!

 

[keeperscottage]

Hi, Sarah1 and everyone else! I've really enjoyed reading all the replies! To update.....this morning, Dartmoor with two rugs yesterday morning only had one today but was still sweating, big hairy cob had Thermatex on.....and was sweating, too (but he's never without a rug of some description even in the height of summer - and he's always stabled overnight - and he's SO itchy! Tonight, I spoke to livery with yet another big hairy cob (the one who thought he hadn't dried off from his ride over 24 hours earlier and that was the reason he was wet, not because he'd sweated overnight from excess rugging) and she said once he's clipped, he'll have a stable rug plus high neck heavyweight turnout and, if the temperature drops, a further heavyweight turnout on top.....says he feels the cold because he's pink skinned! He is so cobby!! TB with four rugs was sweating.........mine are fully clipped out NOT over-rugged and still living out!!! Please keep the replies coming!

 

[Goldenstar]

Hi, Sarah1 and everyone else! I've really enjoyed reading all the replies! To update.....this morning, Dartmoor with two rugs yesterday morning only had one today but was still sweating, big hairy cob had Thermatex on.....and was sweating, too (but he's never without a rug of some description even in the height of summer - and he's always stabled overnight - and he's SO itchy! Tonight, I spoke to livery with yet another big hairy cob (the one who thought he hadn't dried off from his ride over 24 hours earlier and that was the reason he was wet, not because he'd sweated overnight from excess rugging) and she said once he's clipped, he'll have a stable rug plus high neck heavyweight turnout and, if the temperature drops, a further heavyweight turnout on top.....says he feels the cold because he's pink skinned! He is so cobby!! TB with four rugs was sweating.........mine are fully clipped out NOT over-rugged and still living out!!! Please keep the replies coming!

I think its because some people keep horses because they enjoy looking after them but lack the basic empathy and common sense you need to look after them.
No chance of me over rugging I too lazy .

 

[WelshD]

OP could you not have a general yard meeting and bring up the subject that you are partly responsible for welfare of the horses on the yard and maybe try to poke the thoughts of those that over rug? chances are some of the other liveries will speak up and add their thoughts - I dont mean make it a witch hunt but just an open discussion

 

[keeperscottage]

WelshD, I've tried pointing out how hot some of the horses are but I get nowhere - as tonight ..."He feels the cold because he's pink skinned". Numpties the lot of them! And one of the other sweaty cobs - asked owner's mother what I should put on him when I brought him in this afternoon (which has to be early because they reckon he's frightened of the dark.......yes!) and I was told to put the stripey rug on (heavy!) and her daughter would take it from there when she got to the yard later this evening (this is the horse which is NEVER left unrugged) so probably multiple rugs when I turn him out in the morning!

 

[Goldenstar]

How about a per rug charge that might stop them.

 

[Starbucks]

Maybe put up some signs up or something? I think I would have to be quite strict. For example:

'If horses are found sweating and in distress RUGS WILL BE REMOVED'

Any normal person would want this?

 

[Milanesa]

Oh keepers cottage what a sad situation for you. These people must be numptys with no common sense? Why have your horse suffer? Sometimes maybe these liveries feel they need to compete with each other and by over rugging I think they feel they are showing how well cared for their horses are. A horse with 4 rugs is just cruelty poor horse.

I too would suggest having a meeting or handing out flyers to each livery explaining that many are too hot, and that as owner you are partly responsible and care for their welfare- and that rugs will be removed ? Tbh it is hard as their isn't much you can do- apart from try to educate them - but I do feel for you, you are obviously a very caring person and I too would feel sad for these horses xx

 

[Elsbells]

Maybe put up some signs up or something? I think I would have to be quite strict. For example:

'If horses are found sweating and in distress RUGS WILL BE REMOVED'

Any normal person would want this?

I agree with Starbucks, its an easy to implement solution and something needs to be done tbh.

 

[pippixox]

perhaps try and find an article on the importance of correct rugging/ not over rugging, with some scientific 'facts'! and stick it in a horsey magazine for them to read. they probably think they are doing what is best, but it isn't just over heating, it's rubbing, pressure on withers leading to back problems, and even skin infections from the sweat and lack of air. mine are clipped and today in 1 hw, as it is only 2'C, but no extra rugs underneath. but when bring them into the barn in the winter, unless it is frozen i take their rugs off for 30 mins so they can groom each other.