Over sensitive and argumentative - WWYD

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JillA

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My livery is doing my head in - she argues and argues and can't take what wasn't even criticism :(
I asked her this morning to not put any barrows full of poo on a certain place because it is getting out of control, but instead to put it in another one I specified. No problem you might think. Ok, no worries you might think Yes okay you might think.
Instead I get a tirade of "It wasn't me, I didn't put any there ramble ramble ramble" and my reply was well it might have been x or the hens might have spread it.........................................but it was on and on and on "I didn't do it". And "why are you always so negative, why can't you be positive like you insist on with the horses". To which I asked how else would I say please do it differently? And sometimes it is easier just to say okay.
On and on and on in a loud voice so I asked her to come into the building and discuss - "no, I'm not discussing it" carrying on almost shouting. EVERY time I point out something should be done differently I get this "wasn't me guv" type of argument............I don't need it!!!
What would you have done?
I asked her to leave the yard and go home before she started upsetting the horses and I would finish off.
And told her she was of course free to move her horse elsewhere.
 
I wouldn't describe this as "sharp" but would be thinking more "difficult". : )

But your yard, your rules, if she can't have a reasonable attitude when you ask her to do something then try a noticeboard.
I don't think it will help her and you, get on well together, but at least you can make things clear without discussion.
I'm not sure how long either of you will feel this is a good option, tbh.
 
If I ever need to make any management changes or remind liveries of rules, then I do a group email to include all liveries. That way I can be sure that everyone has seen it and that noone can feel picked on. It also gives me time to word it in the best possible manner. I do also speak to my liveries ;) However its a small yard and all of my liveries work, so I try to leave them be while they enjoy their horse time :)
 
What would I do?

As said above I would initially communicate via email and notice board.

In all likelihood, if someone kept up with this shouting and the atmosphere was generally stressful, I would send her an email (followed by a written notice) stating that I felt that she wasn't happy at the yard and that perhaps it would be best if she looked elsewhere. I'd kick her off in other words.

I have done this, I found myself avoiding my own yard, after someone continually criticised what I did, and bitched about others, the last straw was when she complained that I hadn't swept the barn aisle, at evening stables with the world and his wife in and out - you jest surely ;) I am afraid I was not subtle and told her there and then that she had a month to find another barn aisle to whinge about. She was kicked off three other yards after mine and I later heard that she had bought a house with an acre and was blissfully happy, good, that was what she needed.

Horses are for enjoying, and yards should be a relaxing/happy place to be, if they aren't then YO's have a responsibility, to all, to make it so.
 
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JillA said:
My livery is doing my head in - she argues and argues and can't take what wasn't even criticism :(
To which I asked how else would I say please do it differently? And sometimes it is easier just to say okay.
On and on and on in a loud voice so I asked her to come into the building and discuss - "no, I'm not discussing it" carrying on almost shouting. EVERY time I point out something should be done differently I get this "wasn't me guv" type of argument............I don't need it!!!
What would you have done?
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Well I don't know either of you so just going on what you've written it's clear that she takes it as criticism even though you haven't meant it to be. Yes she's probably oversensitive and you know that now. I have felt like this at times - sometimes when you are doing your level best to 'get it right' and it's pointed out that it isn't 'right' then it can feel like criticism.

How would I do it differently with someone like this? As pixie has said email everyone etc and that way it isn't at all personal. She feels that it is personal even though you don't mean that way. I'd sprinkle in some thanks however small the thing is that you are thanking them for. In her case if I had to speak to her about a change I would say something along the lines of 'I have had a rethink about the barrows of poo and I'm asking everyone to put them at X.

You say 'EVERY time I point out something' How many times? Does she feel that whenever she's on the yard there's yet another thing that has to be pointed out to her. What things are you pointing out to her? Are they things specific to her that you are pointing out? I'm genuinely curious because there must be some reason for her reacting as she does. Maybe that's why she asks why you can't be positive. Have you pointed out positive things to her?

Looking at it from the transactional analysis point of view (I'm OK You're OK') she is reacting in child mode to comments that seem to her to come from you in 'parent' mode as in 'EVERY time I point out something'
 
My YO must have had all this in the past cause when she talks to us as liveries - she starts by saying 'I'm saying this to everyone but we have decided that X needs to be done etc' And ends it with the same thing - something like ' I know you may do it differently or you may be already doing it this way, but we are just pointing it out to everyone again that X needs to be done like this - just makes our lives easier etc'

And leave it at that! I think some people are super-sensitive and want to please so want the pat on the head from 'teacher' (YO!) so immediately go into the 'oh it wasnt me, it was like that & I never do that blah blah mode'!
 
When things are only corrected it can feel - for those of us not good with criticism ;)- that nothing you ever do is right. Where I am there is usually always something and it is usually always because they don't seem to have enough important things to worry about! I don't snap back at people though, I stew and over analyse it!

LegOn, yes, we can't help it though! There is an episode of the simpsons when the school is closed and Lisa is shouting at her mum 'Grade me!' that is sort of me ;).
 
ester said:
LegOn, yes, we can't help it though! There is an episode of the simpsons when the school is closed and Lisa is shouting at her mum 'Grade me!' that is sort of me ;).
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LOL! Good example! But wouldnt you feel better if you YO started the conversation with - 'Dont worry, we arent saying you do or dont do this, we are just reminding/telling everyone.... etc etc'

I like that approach, I think it works better than just flat out telling everyone and then yes, you can end up over-analysing it! (I would be a bit like that myself) ;)
 
We have a chalk board, I am unconvinced at that method of communication on a small yard (5 owners) though as we do all find it quite demanding in tone and patronising at times (when we get diagrams too ;) :p)
 
ester said:
We have a chalk board, I am unconvinced at that method of communication on a small yard (5 owners) though as we do all find it quite demanding in tone and patronising at times (when we get diagrams too ;) :p)
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Lol - Diagrams??! Well dont blame you there!! :p
 
It's your yard , I hate overdramatic people , they use it as a form of control.
Give her notice to leave , life is too short .
 
JillA said:
My livery is doing my head in - she argues and argues and can't take what wasn't even criticism :(
I asked her this morning to not put any barrows full of poo on a certain place because it is getting out of control, but instead to put it in another one I specified. No problem you might think. Ok, no worries you might think Yes okay you might think.
Instead I get a tirade of "It wasn't me, I didn't put any there ramble ramble ramble" and my reply was well it might have been x or the hens might have spread it.........................................but it was on and on and on "I didn't do it". And "why are you always so negative, why can't you be positive like you insist on with the horses". To which I asked how else would I say please do it differently? And sometimes it is easier just to say okay.
On and on and on in a loud voice so I asked her to come into the building and discuss - "no, I'm not discussing it" carrying on almost shouting. EVERY time I point out something should be done differently I get this "wasn't me guv" type of argument............I don't need it!!!
What would you have done?
I asked her to leave the yard and go home before she started upsetting the horses and I would finish off.
And told her she was of course free to move her horse elsewhere.
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She sounds like my 8 year old daughter!!!
 
Maesfen said:
This. It's your yard so it doesn't matter whether she feels she's picked on or not. Your rules and if they don't like it they should go.
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Absolutely this, the more I read on here, from both sides of the situation, the more thankful I am not to be on a livery yard and even more thankful that we don't have liveries!
 
Thanks all (for Arzada, every time as in a handful of times over the 2 years she has been here!) - it's a small private yard, livery only to help with costs, and I wonder if she would be like that in someone's home. The request to not use that particular part of the muck pile was just in passing, not a premeditated thing, and TBH I can't be walking on eggshells like that every time she is around and I want to instigate a slight change. She is one of those immature 60 somethings for whom everything is about her.
Very tempted to give her notice.
 
"She is one of those immature 60 somethings for whom everything is about her."

Why do horses attract those people like moths to a light?

Though I could well be one when I am 60-something. :)

It's your yard. If she is driving you crazy, give her notice. My yard owner will come up you and be very straightforward: "Don't do x." It is easier to say, "Okay, cool." I don't know why you wouldn't, even when you disagree. Usually YOs aren't being totally unreasonable (except for the one time he was)
 
I am in the 'life is too short, give her notice to leave' camp. But if you feel that is too harsh then perhaps a softer option is to take her aside (gulp!) and say something like, I didn't enjoy the exchange we had the other day, I felt you were shouting and behaving inappropriately and I need to let you know that if there are any more episodes like this I am afraid I will give you notice to leave the yard.

And any more episodes, for me, would include an outburst in response to that.

(Although I have to say when there is a note on the board at our (wonderful!) yard that says please can you clear the droppings from the school, there were 4 in there the other day - I always want to say 'It wasn't me!!' [and it never has been])
 
She does sound oversensitive and frustrating for you. Just seeing it from the other side though (and this may not be the situation but I'll throw it out there) it can depend on how the message is delivered. I'm on a very busy yard and sometimes somebody will ask me to do something differently when that is directly opposite to what we've been told in the past. Somewhere along the way a rule has been changed to cope with changing circumstances, but it hasn't been communicated to everybody. It can then feel as if you are being criticised for doing what you were told to do! I still don't react like it sounds this woman does, but I do confess I sometimes feel a bit aggrieved at being "told off" for doing something that was right last week!
 
Cowpony said:
It can then feel as if you are being criticised for doing what you were told to do! I still don't react like it sounds this woman does, but I do confess I sometimes feel a bit aggrieved at being "told off" for doing something that was right last week!
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Exactly! Bizarre isn't it? It's that inner child ... and it doesn't matter that chronologically you are 60+ but about 8 inside. Probably because some of us try to 'get it right' on other people's property and no matter how hard we try we get it 'wrong" Hey ho! Please give her another chance JillA. She's probably just doing the best she can at the time as are most of us. In life as well as on yards.
 
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Arzada said:
Exactly! Bizarre isn't it? It's that inner child ... and it doesn't matter that chronologically you are 60+ but about 8 inside. Probably because some of us try to 'get it right' on other people's property and no matter how hard we try we get it 'wrong" Hey ho! Please give her another chance JillA. She's probably just doing the best she can at the time as are most of us. In life as well as on yards.
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I feel like quoting myself. Please indulge me - I'm on painkillers tonight aka red wine. Does she try to get it right by you (OP) most of the time?
 
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Arzada said:
Exactly! Bizarre isn't it? It's that inner child ... and it doesn't matter that chronologically you are 60+ but about 8 inside. Probably because some of us try to 'get it right' on other people's property and no matter how hard we try we get it 'wrong" Hey ho! Please give her another chance JillA. She's probably just doing the best she can at the time as are most of us. In life as well as on yards.
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Although most of us do try not to externalise that 8 year old! :D
 
JillA said:
My livery is doing my head in - she argues and argues and can't take what wasn't even criticism :(
I asked her this morning to not put any barrows full of poo on a certain place because it is getting out of control, but instead to put it in another one I specified. No problem you might think. Ok, no worries you might think Yes okay you might think.
Instead I get a tirade of "It wasn't me, I didn't put any there ramble ramble ramble" and my reply was well it might have been x or the hens might have spread it.........................................but it was on and on and on "I didn't do it". And "why are you always so negative, why can't you be positive like you insist on with the horses". To which I asked how else would I say please do it differently? And sometimes it is easier just to say okay.
On and on and on in a loud voice so I asked her to come into the building and discuss - "no, I'm not discussing it" carrying on almost shouting. EVERY time I point out something should be done differently I get this "wasn't me guv" type of argument............I don't need it!!!
What would you have done?
I asked her to leave the yard and go home before she started upsetting the horses and I would finish off.
And told her she was of course free to move her horse elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Is she your only livery? If not, then you need to highlight any issues with all the liveries, so as to avoid the 'why pick on me scenario' & the defensive response. In response to some replies - Yes, it is your yard & your rules etc etc, but you are being paid to provide a service & she is a client. If liveries are more hassle than they're worth, why do it?
 
She is my only livery, and yes, she does try and get it right - it's the arguing though, often unconnected to horses (in which she acknowledges I am way more knowledgeable and experienced and is glad if my help) I say black, she says white. My yard is my relaxation, and I am not prepared to have someone introduce so much stress to it - I don't need her money that much. My fuse might have been a little shorter than usual today, for a good reason in that I have lots to do and pain from sciatica, (she "enjoys" poor health and parades it but never enquires about mine) but I cannot be treading on eggshells for fear of her exercising her inner brat.
We'll see what tomorrow brings, I like the idea of a "shot across the bows" if I feel brave enough lol
 
Arzada said:
So true but sometimes she's just so strong that the 60+ yo gives up! How do you get that smiley in your posts?
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When you click reply there are three buttons under the typing area. Click on "Go Advanced" and you get a choice of emoticons.
 
Tobiano said:
I am in the 'life is too short, give her notice to leave' camp. But if you feel that is too harsh then perhaps a softer option is to take her aside (gulp!) and say something like, I didn't enjoy the exchange we had the other day, I felt you were shouting and behaving inappropriately and I need to let you know that if there are any more episodes like this I am afraid I will give you notice to leave the yard.

And any more episodes, for me, would include an outburst in response to that.
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I'd also replace the leave the yard with leave MY yard. As your only livery, it is likely that she is the one doing stuff. I'm afraid I would wave goodbye with a huge sigh of relief if she does anything like that again. She has no right to shout at you when you've asked something completely reasonable. If she doesn't like it, as my YO has been known to say, then she knows what to do.
 
JillA said:
She is my only livery, and yes, she does try and get it right - it's the arguing though, often unconnected to horses (in which she acknowledges I am way more knowledgeable and experienced and is glad if my help) I say black, she says white. My yard is my relaxation, and I am not prepared to have someone introduce so much stress to it - We'll see what tomorrow brings, I like the idea of a "shot across the bows" if I feel brave enough lol
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A difficult situation - I would avoid that stress if I could. I see where you're coming from now that I know that it is just the two of you. I think that I would be asking myself if a replacement livery would be an improvement. You see if I had my own place I'd want it to me and my horses only! It's hard just the two of you.
 
This. People who don't take responsibility are the bain of my life (at the yard!)

My yard owner is very cut and dry, she doesn't like something, she will tell you outright and that's fine. Her land, her rules and it's never anything unreasonable. Just managing the land accordingly.
 
I'd get rid of her. It's your home, and you shouldn't have to feel like you do, regardless of who is upsetting who.
I've just had a week from hell with one of my new liveries, who thankfullly jumped before she was pushed, as she got a job elsewhere in the country. I had a bad feeling about her from the start, and I was proved right in the end. She left on the Monday, and on the Friday, she posted a horrible "warning" about me on a local Facebook page because I hadn't immediately refunded her deposit (having first blocked me, so that I couldn't see it!) Thankfully, she got an absolute roasting from current/past liveries, friends and people I didn't even know! It actually worked in my favour, as I got over 20 enquiries about my livery vacancy, but it still really upset me!
 
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