overbreeding? what do you think?

[Megibo]

before i get any angry people replying just let me explain.
what i want to know is, why do people keep mares in foal? e.g i've read a few posts on here and knew someone once that had a mare with a newborn foal at foot and were planning to have them put back in foal as soon as they could afterwards. is that not very tough on the mare?
and also a post where someone said that the foal was the mares 12th and another where it was her 18th baby! is there not a limit before it becomes too much or does it depend on the health and quality of life the mare has?
now, i would just like to say that on this part of the forum there are (obviously) very very experienced breeders and if the mare is put back in foal she has a 3 week break after birth etc and the mare is given the correct care so she stays happy and doesnt get pulled down etc. thats fine.
but it seems like there are people (not on here) who just keep their mares in foal, sometimes as just baby makers and will do it til the mare is no longer fertile enough and then its the knackers for her!

whats your view of that ?

and also, to the experienced breeders, if you have your mares in foal every year do you ever give them a year out or just come to a point where she has no more babies based on your own assessment of the mare?

please no angry replies as i am just curious and would like peoples thoughts on things like this.

 

[Revena]

Personally, I like to give my mares a rest and I breed them every other year. This is also due to the fact that I am very much a hobby breeder, I cannot afford to put them in foal every year and I would not have the time to do the youngsters justice on top of work and other commitments. I also do not have the space to keep the youngster so would have to sell some foals at weaning, I would not like this as I like to know that they are well handled when they move on and on a sentimental basis, I like to see what they turn into.
I can absolutely understand people putting a mare in foal every year. If a mare is kept healthy and up to weight I see no reason why there would be a problem. I believe I am right in saying that this is what would happen in the wild?! (I'm happy to be corrected, I'm always interested in learning more!)

 

[eventrider23]

I have a livery mare who was only bought by her current owner in foal this year and yes this is her 12th (she is 17 now) and yes she is putting back in foal this year as will sell the foal she has in her at mo (has a buyer waiting) and planning on the next being a keeper for herself as a hunter.....whether she breeds again after that or not will be up to her but I doubt she will have many more as she essentially wants to get something for herself alone from her.

 

[Megibo]

Personally, I like to give my mares a rest and I breed them every other year. This is also due to the fact that I am very much a hobby breeder, I cannot afford to put them in foal every year and I would not have the time to do the youngsters justice on top of work and other commitments. I also do not have the space to keep the youngster so would have to sell some foals at weaning, I would not like this as I like to know that they are well handled when they move on and on a sentimental basis, I like to see what they turn into.
I can absolutely understand people putting a mare in foal every year. If a mare is kept healthy and up to weight I see no reason why there would be a problem. I believe I am right in saying that this is what would happen in the wild?! (I'm happy to be corrected, I'm always interested in learning more!)

That's understandable
good point actually, now you mention it! apparently a mare will be driven out of a herd if she is the right age but wont allow herself to be covered yearly..i guess the main thing is when it happens to domesticated horses but purely for the money-and i mean like proper breeders and hobby breeders may produce to sell but its done properly unlike some others who breed for the sake of it from anything year after year. i remember reading a story of someone who went to the sales of a 2 year old with a foal at foot, and the gypsy owner was delited that the foal was a filly as it meant another foal-making machine as soon as it would be old enough

 

[Megibo]

I have a livery mare who was only bought by her current owner in foal this year and yes this is her 12th (she is 17 now) and yes she is putting back in foal this year as will sell the foal she has in her at mo (has a buyer waiting) and planning on the next being a keeper for herself as a hunter.....whether she breeds again after that or not will be up to her but I doubt she will have many more as she essentially wants to get something for herself alone from her.

but at least she's already planned for the unborn foal's future. and if she does breed her again she's breeding to keep. i guess people have different views but if you have more than one broodmare why make each one have at least 12 babies? but as i said-proper breeders look after their mares and i've read on a few posts that some leave it up to the mares as to whether or not they put them back in foal, and if not most go to loan homes for some reasons or just retire in the field

 

[volatis]

Actually with older mares, keeping them in foal each year is often better for them reproductively than leaving them empty. I know plenty of breeders who have rested an older mare for a year or two and then been unable to get her back in foal afterwards.

 

[Megibo]

Actually with older mares, keeping them in foal each year is often better for them reproductively than leaving them empty. I know plenty of breeders who have rested an older mare for a year or two and then been unable to get her back in foal afterwards.

if she'd had plenty of foals in the past though why the need to breed her again? is it done because of her bloodline, no other broodmares etc..? she throws a certain quality foal the owner wants to keep getting till she cant have any more foals?

 

[volatis]

I cant speak for the particular breeder you are refering to, but if you are a commercial breeder (big or small) then you hopefully have some broodmares that you feel have the qualities you want in your stock, and so you continue to bred foals from them. I know one of my mares venezia, has been a career broodmare (now 17) and her dam Vabanque was having foals in her 20s without problems. Its a super mother line and both mares have been producing excellent foals, so if they are fit and healthy, you continue to breed from them

 

[Touchwood]

Why would you breed from them in the first place if they were not good enough to be bred from?

My girls are career broodmares now, so that is their job! If they need it, they will get a year off but they rarely do - I gave one a year off as she foaled quite late, and she does have a tendancy to get pulled down by her foals, so I didn't want her back in foal when she had already had a late weaning. She got covered nice and early this year and is straight back in foal, so I will suspect she will have another 3 on the trot like last time. She's one of my best mares, produces fantastic offspring, is graded with multiple societies and has bloodlines that I really value as part of my breeding program - as a commercial breeder, why would I want to lose a year from her unnecessarily?

 

[Megibo]

Why would you breed from them in the first place if they were not good enough to be bred from?

My girls are career broodmares now, so that is their job! If they need it, they will get a year off but they rarely do - I gave one a year off as she foaled quite late, and she does have a tendancy to get pulled down by her foals, so I didn't want her back in foal when she had already had a late weaning. She got covered nice and early this year and is straight back in foal, so I will suspect she will have another 3 on the trot like last time. She's one of my best mares, produces fantastic offspring, is graded with multiple societies and has bloodlines that I really value as part of my breeding program - as a commercial breeder, why would I want to lose a year from her unnecessarily?

well thats the problem really isnt it, the unscrupulous ones who just do it.

There's no problem at all if the mare is fit, healthy and that is their purpose. it seems that when mares are constantly pregnant its detrimental and just a big production line of foals year after year-but as i've said, if the mare is healthy and happy to be a mum every year there's no issue really. also if the breeding is well thought out etc and there is purpose behind it. as someone else stated that is what happens in the wild (they have a foal every year) and it's natural for those mares to have them-and if they dont have a foal at foot it was the mares choice or she's too old for it. what's annoying is when people have their mares constantly pregnant which must be tiring just so they can have foals year after year and make money from it-and of course the mares don't have a say in whether they have babies or not.
however, i am talking about those types of breeders, NOT about any of the breeders on here because to date everyone who has bred a foal/foals on here have purpose behind it, either cause they're a 'business' or they want a baby to keep. my main way of thinking is of horses carelessly run with a stallion all the time and surplus of horses being created-there arent enough homes for them all as it is-i believe there is someone on here who used to work for a stud and thats how they did it (stallion loose with the mares) which was more natural, but again it was all planned and done responsibly etc etc
so when horses are bred with the future of the foal already sorted, and the mare is happy and healthy, there's no problem.

 

[pintoarabian]

This is my personal viewpoint and it is not intended to be critical of anyone who has different views or circumstances. I have a number of top quality mares here, some retired now but more than a few of breeding age. Since 2008, I have only bred 1 foal(retained) and have only put 1 in foal for next year (to be retained). I refuse to churn out foals to saturate an already flooded market. I like to think I am a responsible breeder and will only breed if i can guarantee the foal's future. The maximum number of foals I have bred from one mare is 5. That works for me. All of the mares I've bred from enjoy having foals but I have to be sensible.

 

[Megibo]

that does illustrate the point i was trying to make, in some sense or another. it's perfectly reasonable but of course as you say everyone has different viewpoints etc

i plan to breed from my mare one day but only because she's a nice mare, we've been told by welsh people she's got good breeding and is an overall good mare. also good temperament etc and any foal she does have will be kept, with no intention of selling it

 

[Eothain]

I breed from 5 mares. They have a job to do. That's why I have them. 5 mares, 5 foals please. It costs as much to feed a barren mare as it does to feed an in foal mare. My mares are professional mothers. There's no sentimental value. Just the big picture. Does that make me heartless? Maybe! But my mares must get foals on the ground every year or they are a liability. There's none of this pink-fluffy-give the poor mare a year off nonsense for me

 

[hippomaniac]

I breed from 5 mares. They have a job to do. That's why I have them. 5 mares, 5 foals please. It costs as much to feed a barren mare as it does to feed an in foal mare. My mares are professional mothers. There's no sentimental value. Just the big picture. Does that make me heartless? Maybe! But my mares must get foals on the ground every year or they are a liability. There's none of this pink-fluffy-give the poor mare a year off nonsense for me

People do forget that to run a stud it has to be profitable and that does mean mares have to produce foals as this is profit, I have a mare that is very unhappy if she does not have a foal on her and is always blooming when in foal. However we can still get pink and fluffy and sentimental, that is human nature.

 

[Bertthefrog]

Professional studs, produce quality foals, from quality, successful mares and stallions. The horse's welfare is paramount, to ensure a quality product. That way the foal is valuable and will sell.

The issue isn't with this end of breeding. It is with those using poor stallions and poor mares, that breed with no disease precautions, or with any thought for the health and future of the offspring, It is done purely for status, and to make money. The foals end up at auction, sell for a pittance and add to the already increasing numbers of low quality equines that generally end up either neglected or at the abbattoir. Fillies are covered the minute they come into season.

This, and the individuals that have a substandard, lame or unrideable mare, and decide - to "give it a chance"........to produce another lame or problematic foal....

What are the answers - no idea sadly. Although at the moment I do think a cull may be the way forward. Problem is - how do get hold of the horses that shouldn't be bred from?? Stallion licensing not an answer either, as the ones that abide by the rules are usually the legitimate, conscientious breeder anyway!


Arrrrggghhhhh

.....and relax.

 

[nokia]

Im glad im not a horse...and i am glad you dont own me you sound ruthless !!!

Thing is their are to many people breeding horses...their are far to many stallion and not enough buyers.

Their are to many studs these days..to much choice..i dont understand why people continue to produce foals.

The goverment will have to act soon..i hope they impose a big tax to stop the overbreeding in the UK...I think 1500 pounds per foal would be a good plan...would make people think twice.

 

[Eothain]

While also crippling an already struggling industry. Good job with that! When the auxillary jobs in the Equine sector are lost, you can pat yourself on the back.

Was it me you were calling ruthless? Am I ruthless? Perhaps I am, but hey, business is business

 

[flyingcolors]

There are far too many horses bred from non approved stock, mares that should not be bred and stallions that have no approval.

 

[Tiny Fluffy Coblet]

This is not aimed at anyone here just a comment that came to me while horse (window) shopping. Every now and again I browse the various horse for sale websites for horses under a grand because I could afford them, unfortunately I still couldn't afford to keep one but oh well.

The point of my post is that a lot of these ponies going for 300, 400, 500, 600 quid are really nice. Mostly young-stock between 2 and 6, often the older ones are green-broke. TB/pony crosses, nice looking tall ponies, Welsh Ds with decent conformation. The more worrying thing is that many of these cheap ponies are mares being marketed as 'Broodmare/riding horse' often with one or two foals on the ground at 5. If the mares are going for 500 quid or less what the HELL are people doing breeding them or advertising them as broodmares. There are even young pure Arabs, PB Arabs, registered ponies, registered TB crosses going for 500-1000.

If you want to breed then take a look at the bargain bins, if horses or ponies with similar breeding/type to what you are breeding are in there DON'T. Believe it or not even the pretty colours are in there, Palomino 'proven broodmares', Spotted ponies, Tri-Coloureds, Duns, Buckskins, all for under a grand. And guess what takes a very similar pony up to the next price bracket.......training. A dead broke kid safe 14hh half decent 6yo Welsh is going for double or more than the 500 quid the green-broke, 'broodmare prospect' 14hh half decent 6yo Welsh.

 

[GinnieRedwings]

what's annoying is when people have their mares constantly pregnant which must be tiring just so they can have foals year after year and make money from it-and of course the mares don't have a say in whether they have babies or not.

Sorry, but that had me rolling on the floor laughing....

Not wanting to be patronising but I really can't put this in a way that won't be, so I apologise in advance - everyone is entitled to their opinion of course.

Why is it people always want to attribute human feelings to animals???

Mares WANT to have babies every year for 2 reasons:
1- their hormones are telling them to - I would argue it is a lot more cruel to let mares suffer mood swings and sometimes pain, expecting them to carry on working/performing through cycle after cycle, than have them what they are designed to do... make babies!
2- all animals have the 2 genetically engrained NEEDS to survive themselves as an individual and reproduce to ensure the survival of their species. If it wasn't the case in horses, then there would now be no horses...

It must be tiring???? Well going round Badminton is tiring, and a damn sight less natural!!!

And back to the REAL world. Eothain is absolutely right, business is business. Provided there are no welfare issues, a broodmare's job is to have babies. Like a riding horse's job is to work under saddle. Once a horse can no longer perform the job it is meant to do, for whatever reason, then yes, it ought to be put down.

I am not being unkind or cruel. I am being realistic. How many ads are there out there for ex-riding horses as light hacks or companions? Honestly, who can afford to have an ex-racing TB as a companion??? Because people cannot afford to keep them as field ornaments and they haven't got the guts to make the decision to have them put down, those horses get passed from pillar to post, buted up to the eyeballs & sold on and on by unscrupulous dealers. Now, THAT's cruel.

Before I get slaughtered, I myself own 2 mares and a gelding pony who, if it wasn't for my intervention, would have been glue a long time ago. But I only took them on because I could see a purpose for them. One was a very talented SJ with excellent bloodlines and she had 2 beautiful babies for me. She is now back in ridden work and doing well. The other is an ex-racing TB, who after a lot of dedicated work, has turned out to be a very good little riding horse. The pony I bought as a completely wild unhandled 3 year old at the Watton horse sales, 11 years ago. He is a great riding pony and a steadfast companion for the youngsters.

But, had any of them turned out to prove me wrong about their potential usefulness - and I do give them a lot of chances - then they would have been put down. Why pass on your problems to someone else? That's not fair to the horse.

I have said this before and will repeat it til I'm blue in the face. With the exception of the indiscriminate gypsy breeders, breeding less is not an answer to the equine overpopulation. Well-trained, sane, talented horses are as rare as hen's teeth and fly off the shelf with enormous price tags. The vast majority of horses that cannot find a home have been damaged one way or another and may or may not ever have a useful job to perform.

I think people need to have the guts to recognise the fact that their horse no longer has a use, and do what's needed, that would be part of the answer to horse overpopulation...

 

[LMsporthorses]

I breed from 5 mares. They have a job to do. That's why I have them. 5 mares, 5 foals please. It costs as much to feed a barren mare as it does to feed an in foal mare. My mares are professional mothers. There's no sentimental value. Just the big picture. Does that make me heartless? Maybe! But my mares must get foals on the ground every year or they are a liability. There's none of this pink-fluffy-give the poor mare a year off nonsense for me

Here Here...

Completely agree... A year off to do what ???? Nothing other than get fat in a field (and probably develop laminitis or other problems), I'm sure if a mare could talk thay would choose a life of having foals as opposed to being ridden and stabled all the time.

I used to work at a large stud in Ireland and the mares were there to do a job and were all well looked after and were happy as larry in the field all year round.
Think the whole resting mares is more to make humans feel better than the horses. My mare loves having a foal at foot and only because I cant afford to breed again (she has produced 2 beautiful foals) next year, I haven't put her in foal again. I'm gonna bring her back in to work for a couple of years as she is only 11. then in about 3/4 years i will put her back in foal again and she can breed for as long as she is able as far as I'm concerned, especially if she keeps producing quality foals like she has been doing!!

 

[nokia]

Business is Business are you lot for real ? We are talking about foals here..you are not on the Apprentice.

You are producing foals for a totally overcrowded market place...high class foals may of once been sold for high prices are not reaching these prices anymore.

Im stick of visiting Brightwells sales and seeing horses in appaling conditions..reading about the uk problem of overbreeding in this country and IE and yet people keep breeding.

You can get a great woodlander foal for great prices these days...their aint the market their used to be...people are skint ...horses are to expensive...people dont want horses

I hope the goverment starts a foal tax that will put breeders of producing more unwanted babies

 

[stolensilver]

The market is still there if you are breeding what people want to buy. I sold last year's foal to a great eventing home and they want to buy this years foal off me as well. The only problem is that I want to keep this year's foal for myself!

 

[Mugsgame]

Business is Business are you lot for real ? We are talking about foals here..you are not on the Apprentice.

You are producing foals for a totally overcrowded market place...high class foals may of once been sold for high prices are not reaching these prices anymore.

Im stick of visiting Brightwells sales and seeing horses in appaling conditions..reading about the uk problem of overbreeding in this country and IE and yet people keep breeding.

You can get a great woodlander foal for great prices these days...their aint the market their used to be...people are skint ...horses are to expensive...people dont want horses

I hope the goverment starts a foal tax that will put breeders of producing more unwanted babies

Brilliant stuff!! Yes, of course all the responsible breeders should be slapped with a tax because of the 'recession' and because people are skint!! This will sove ALL the problems! Bound to .

Speaking about the market and the general horse population - I agree with a lot of what Ginnie R says, its not just about the breeding, it is also about the rest of life and use of these animals.

As for broodmares having foals every year - why not? If they are fit and well, looked after properly - what makes them any different to other horses used for jobs? Hunting? Eventing? Or should we not be doing anything with horses anymore? My mares (and pretty much every other broodmare I know of) live great lives, are able to enjoy a small herd life, interact with their foals, interact with other foals, get fed correctly, have attentive healthcare, footcare, vaccinations and worming, enjoy chilling out in big fields, and so on.

As for everyone being skint... horses have never been cheap to do anything with as far as I am aware? A big problem is that people seem to think they can use the credit crunch as an excuse to rip other people off!

Lastly... Nokia, are you vegetarian?

 

[TarrSteps]

I'd rather see a top quality mare, well cared for by a responsible breeder, with a proven record of producing good, saleable horses (not just for the profit element, but because they're "wanted") have a foal every year than a sub standard mare bred "just because".

I used to work for a breeder who had a mare that had 22 foals! She had sired at least one approved stallion, a number of mares that had themselves produced approved stallions/graded mares (one of her daughters, that I had the privilege of riding, produced two approved sons from her first two foals!), and a long list of good competition horses. At that point the stud still did a lot of live cover and the mare caught easily, kept her condition, foaled out with minimum trouble and was a good mother to her foals. I think any horse would be GLAD to have a mother like that. She was, in effect, good at her job and started a whole host of similarly good horses out on the best foot possible.

There are mares that catch only every other year and if they are "professional" broodmares and producing good quality foals the breeder just factors that in.

In the wild (which is a LONG was from most of our horses now) receptivity and conception are at least partially based on circumstance - condition of the mare being the most relevant - but if you're going to take the "it's natural" stance then you'd need to explain "foal heats". Many mammals don't conceive easily when they are still nursing but horses seem positively designed to do so! If the mare is particularly poor she might not conceive but she'd more than likely still come into season.

Some mares do reach a point when they don't conceive easily any more - that's nature saying they're done - but if the mare is still getting in foal and can carry it easily, why is that "unnatural"?

Most of the good breeders I know don't churn horses out, willy nilly, and in fact the best regularly "cull" their broodmare bands and send mares that aren't producing well back into the riding horse world. (One breeder I knew ran a riding school/sale yard, using only his own "products" and mares taking a year out for whatever reason often worked in the school, which also meant they were ready for another job, should that be necessary.)

As far as people breeding indiscriminately . . . that's hardly just about people breeding a mare too many times. That's just people being, well, stupid. And so long as people keep buying the products then they'll keep supplying the market. Look at the discussions on here about people not wanting to pay "market value" - as in the cost of production - for a young horse, or preferring to "rescue" a horse, even if it clearly will struggle with their demands, rather than support a responsible breeder, breeding horses for jobs.

Can you imagine the screaming from owners if we introduced a "minimum price" for horses??

 

[skyboy]

People who breed horses for a purpose will continue to breed horses for that purpose regardless of the economic climate, because it's what they love to do, it's what they were born to do and they do it to improve their horses.
People who breed horses without a purpose will continue to breed horses regardless of the economic climate, because they know no better.
I think people are a little too quick to blame the former and a litle too slow to educate the latter.

 

[LMsporthorses]

People who breed horses for a purpose will continue to breed horses for that purpose regardless of the economic climate, because it's what they love to do, it's what they were born to do and they do it to improve their horses.
People who breed horses without a purpose will continue to breed horses regardless of the economic climate, because they know no better.
I think people are a little too quick to blame the former and a litle too slow to educate the latter.

Well said.

The problem here is not the people breeding quality,well bred foals but the people who have poor quality mares, have no knowledge and produce less than adequate foals.

Tarrsteps:

I have heard of the 'culling' of the mares and foals that have bad conformational problems or are producing not so good foals. This sound harsh but I do think it is the breeders being responsible and not flooding the market with not so good produce and letting the quality sell on because it will always sell on.

I think that some of the problem lies partly in the racing industry as there are alot bred that aren't up to scratch for the track and then end up being sold cheap to private homes. For those of you that have an ex racer and it is a nice one that is going well.... I do not mean you but there are alot that people can't 'retrain' and some who end up with a mare that they cannot manage to ride etc think oh Ill put it in foal' which then often produces another handful and so on.

All I'm saying is I don't think the professional breeders are to blame here and neither the responsible ..... ' have a really nice mare(Quality/talented/rideable) and want to breed' breeders.

Breeders who are just breeding because they dont know what else to do with the mare or because they just want a foal, and the mare is less than adequate and are using poor quality stallions are the ones that are to blame IMO.

I think awareness is the key here which could help steer theses types of breeders in the right direction possible talks/seminars to either change their mind about breeding or encouraging them to be a little more picky on mares/stallions to use if they still really want to breed.

So I think if there was a little bit more understanding across the board the problem of over breeding could be reduced. And pinpointing professional breeders is not the answer. (god help us if we didn't have professional breeders!)

 

[TarrSteps]

Like everything else, it's about making good choices for our horses.

It is tricky, though, because, as discussed, people who want "just a horse" expect to get one cheaply even though it takes as much effort and planning to produce sound, sane all around "family" horses with any consistency as top competition horses. So the industry ends up with a numbers game, where people breed "average" horses and don't necessarily invest in their development as they know they won't recoup it, just to get the relatively small number that will, more by luck than judgement, have the attributes people want.

It's also about good judgement . . . in an example of the above post, I knew a woman who bred the ex-racehorse she bought who ended up too big and too sharp for her to Flynge Amiral!!! Because she "liked his trot" and wanted a dressage horse. So she ended up with something even bigger and sharper she couldn't ride one side of but which didn't appeal to the professional market because there are so many horses by similarly successful sires out of really top mares, too, so they have the whole package. So what did she do? Bred that one, too, in an effort to get something "quieter". That is not organised breeding!

The people just breeding large numbers of horses randomly will always do that, just like people will breed for puppy mills. If fact, that's easier to legislate against as it often ends up with someone having to intervene due to over crowding, care issues etc. It would be interesting to know though, how many of the horses that end up "in trouble" come from that sort of situation vs other, less obviously uncaring, situations.

 

[Megibo]

As for broodmares having foals every year - why not? If they are fit and well, looked after properly - what makes them any different to other horses used for jobs? Hunting? Eventing? Or should we not be doing anything with horses anymore? My mares (and pretty much every other broodmare I know of) live great lives, are able to enjoy a small herd life, interact with their foals, interact with other foals, get fed correctly, have attentive healthcare, footcare, vaccinations and worming, enjoy chilling out in big fields, and so on.

well i'm ignoring the first part of what ginnie said as that was childish...
though mugsgame, thats exactly what i'm saying. in those situtuons as you've described there's nothing wrong with it. the people who breed on here are getting antsy about it but what i've said isnt aimed at them as they breed sensibly and the mares are looked after. and i think most of them will have buyers for the many horses they're producing year after year.
but the issue is people producing from poor quality horses. a bit like gypsy breeders with the coloured horses who will produce and produce as soon as the mare is able to carry a foal and in the hopes people will want a pretty coloured baby and pay the earth to 'rescue' it from them etc etc

 

[TarrSteps]

But do you think those people are reading the thread? Or that they care what you - or anyone else - has to say on the matter? I'm pretty sure they know where the cast offs end up.

You're not going to find anyone on here in favour of random breeding because by definition, everyone on here is interested in horses as individuals and have horses to do jobs, even if that job is "pet".

What is your solution?

Btw, I think GR has a VERY valid point! The vast majority of horses I see that end up in trouble have soundness and/or training issues. Perhaps owners should be "taxed" to get the help their horses need or, if the aren't saleable at market prices, to either keep them or make the ultimate decisions themselves.