Overgrown feet on a zoo zebra - is it ok?

The Zoo check might work but from moorman's post it seems there is a huge lack of understanding and 'belief'/commitment. Human values also seem to be an endemic problem evidenced by some feeling abrasive surfaces are cruel. :confused:
 
I may be in aminority here but IMHO there is no reason why they can't be taught to have their feet trimmed by a farrier without the need for sedation. They are hardly 'wild' animals are they! It would be different if they were being bred for release but these animals are born in zoo's and most likely will die in a zoo. It wouldn't be like they were being totally domesticated.
 
Perissa said:
I may be in aminority here but IMHO there is no reason why they can't be taught to have their feet trimmed by a farrier without the need for sedation. They are hardly 'wild' animals are they! It would be different if they were being bred for release but these animals are born in zoo's and most likely will die in a zoo. It wouldn't be like they were being totally domesticated.
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I'm with you Perissa and I think moorman is too as he wishes to trim them standing. This is the point I was trying to make earlier about them being in limbo.
Having said that, if they provide the right environment and feeding there should be rare need to trim.
 
Perissa said:
I may be in aminority here but IMHO there is no reason why they can't be taught to have their feet trimmed by a farrier without the need for sedation. They are hardly 'wild' animals are they! It would be different if they were being bred for release but these animals are born in zoo's and most likely will die in a zoo. It wouldn't be like they were being totally domesticated.
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Imv there a tendency to talk up how impossibly dangerous zebras are to handle - I'm thinking of some threads on CoTH. However, zebras can be trained, even wild ones e.g. Dr Marthe Kiley-Worthington & a young zebra stallion Zanitaye in Zimbabwe (described in Equine Behaviour Vol.36).

There are species differences in temperament - iirc, plains zebras are more docile than mountain zebra - and none is as docile as horse, so handlers need to be skilled and vigilant. That said, my experience of zebras is almost nil. I spent some time mutual grooming with a plains zebra stallion in Amsterdam zoo and did not detect any particular 'edginess' in his demeanour, presumably because he had received plenty of sympathetic handling from his keepers.
 
Thank you all :-) I am on the case :D I will pm those who have asked which zoo it is, but it will be a bit later as i can't pm on my phone.
I think it's just the pathetic health & safety regs that prevent them from being trimmed without sedation :-/
 
Wasn't going to get involved here, but things are not as simple as it seems. Zebra are not domestic animals, their temperaments are massively different from the modern domestic which is generally bred partly for temperament. Yes, there have been some trained as we all know, but it is unusual, they are on the list of Dangerous Wild Animals and need a license for a reason. Can you imagine how much time it would take to handle and train a zebra? A hell of a lot more than a horse. Yes, you will find that (especially) the stallions enjoy having a good scratch through the bars from anyone willing to provide it, but you go into their enclosure and they are dangerous. Most Zoos have a hands off approach to their animals now as handling them can cause behavioural problems as well as being dangerous.

This Zebra's feet definitely need attention, there is no question. It is possible that there is a conformation problem which stops them being worn down naturally, and certainly it would be dangerous to the animal have to knock it out every six weeks for a trim (very unlikely it could be done with sedation) as we all know equines often respond badly to anaesthesia. And there is not likely to be a nice well padded stable for them to recover in! Maybe the zoo in question will be able to shed some light on the situation. It may be that it should be culled if it has an ongoing problem, or it may be an important stud book animal with important genes (though breeding from it should be a no-no) Zoos are not just a dumping ground for any old animal, there are a lot of globally managed stud book species, and that includes several species of zebra.

And in case anyone is wondering, I don't work in this or any other zoo, and don't know which one it is, but I have in years past, and it a complicated business and especially these days, safety is very important, not just for keepers and animals, but for farriers and vets too. Anybody remember the uproar when a keeper was killed by a domesticated, trained elephant? Or a hand raised tiger? I don't much like zoos, but some species are found only in captivity, and there have been animals bred in zoos and released into the wild, including przewalski horse, which could not have been if they had been handled as domestic.

The Okapi, by the way, was not so amenable when mature!

Sorry,:o I do go on sometimes!:o:o:o Should keep my nose out!
 
Sorry I haven't read the thread right through butI agree with Equinus.

Zebras are renowned for their disposition and cases of taming them are few and far between and often take a lot of time from a very young age. Do we know if this zebra is captive bred?

It isn't just the result of one generation of domesticating either. Dogs have been domesticated for 33,000 years and horses 5,500 to 9000 years. They don't just lose their natural instincts by being born in a zoo.

Give the zoo a reasonable amount of time to contact you before reporting it, unless several animals were in a state I'd be inclined to think there was more behind the story

Pan
 
There were 4 zebras in the 'enclosure'. Perhaps an acre of paddock, plus a hard-standing corral area (their turnout when the paddock is not bone-dry) and a stable area (split in half - 2 zebras in each). All 4 needed their feet seeing to :(
 
Equinus said:
Zebra are not domestic animals, their temperaments are massively different from the modern domestic which is generally bred partly for temperament.
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This point is worth repeating.

Can you imagine how much time it would take to handle and train a zebra? A hell of a lot more than a horse.
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I guess the correct answer is "it varies" or "it depends". In the case of Zanitaye:

"Lifting up and holding his front legs was achieved quietly within 24 hours of capture, and the hand would be run all the way down his hind leg to the hock without him attempting to move or lift his hind leg even though zebras can kick forwards and sideways so that the hind hoof reaches the zebra’s knee. Only once during the handling did he lift his hind leg at all, and made no intention to kick movements (e.g. swishing of the tail, turning of the quarters). Only once in period of 21 days handling did he do this to any person. He also showed no sign of biting or intention to bite during this period. [...]

On day 10 we gave him his first lesson in lunging. This is where the animal circles around the handler who stands in the middle and has a rope attached to the head of the subject. The idea is to ensure that the subject learns word commands to go forward, to stop and to change the gait as asked. [...]

On day 12 we put on a bridle with a bit but no blinkers, and long reined him with someone near his head.

[...] Good consistent handling is not only important at the start of the teaching period, but must be continued for the first month or two if trouble free learning and teaching is to continue.

The speed at which this zebra learnt and quietened down as a result of the development and use of improved handling was remarkable and took the researchers, as well as others, quite by surprise. It certainly indicates, even with this one sample that ease to be handled by humans, to learn and to work is not different between wild and domestic equines. This wild zebra, never in close contact with humans before, was easier and quicker to be handled and lead than many young domestic horses even using the same techniques."

Yes, you will find that (especially) the stallions enjoy having a good scratch through the bars from anyone willing to provide it, but you go into their enclosure and they are dangerous.
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Assuming you're referring to what I wrote, it was mutual grooming over a low wall, not through bars, and the zebra was making direct contact with his teeth. It was a hot, sunny day and I was wearing a short-sleeved shirt.
 
P.S. to Equinus. To be absolutely clear: by quoting from the article by M.K-W, I'm not saying that I also agree with her statement "ease to be handled by humans, to learn and to work is not different between wild and domestic equines". It seems to imply that anyone who is capable of bringing a horse to the standard of training described (approach, catch, handle, lift legs, lead, bit, bridle, lunge & long-rein) would be able to do the same with a wild zebra. I strongly disagree with that implication. However, I believe it does show what is possible with good handling. It's like saying that, just because Monty Roberts can back a horse in less than an hour, all trainers should be able to do that with all horses.

Furthermore, the end result may be a zebra that can lead and allow people to pick up its feet etc. It does not mean successfully trained zebras can be considered as docile and safe as e.g. well-trained Shetland ponies. I am sure their temperaments differ - just as the temperaments of geldings and stallions differ. I expect the zebra to retain an unpredictable element of behaviour, and to be less forgiving of mistakes.

What the experience of M.K-W (and others) does show in relation to this case is that training a zebra to have its feet trimmed is not completely out of the question. In practice, though, 'health and safety' may prohibit the attempt.
 
I agree, there are always exceptions, and I was being general about the "docile" looking Zebra in Zoos.:)

Slightly off topic, but while I was working in a zoo, we had a couple of Grevy zebra stallions who loved a bum tickle, notably one called Danny, who had regular visits from a man with a mac who used to furtively tickle his...er...bum!:eek: This was in the 70s (the first spell in a zoo) before there was awareness of things.:eek::eek::eek:

Back to topic, I hope the OP gets an answer from the zoo, there should be someone who investigates and replies to concerns from members of the public. After all, they can't survive without them! But as one poster said earlier (zoo farrier maybe?) hard standing is essential to keep hooves in good condition, as is bare paddock. Obesity and laminitis are real concerns, and donkey-like hooves do not cope well with wet land.
 
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The zebra do have access to hardstanding, but all they do is STAND. There's nothing to encourage movement and therefore, they're not self-trimming.

I have received this reply:

" Good afternoon
*
Thank you for your email concerning your visit to ******** Zoo.* I have passed your comments over to our animal team for their consideration and will reply to you next week.
*
Thank you for taking the trouble to express your concerns."

We'll see....
 
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