Overly bonded horses - your thoughts.

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now_loves_mares

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This isn't really CR, so apologies, but I think there is a rather experienced bunch of folk on here!

I own two mares, who are quite frankly a pain. They are totally bonded, so much so that there is a great deal of throwing themselves about when you take one away; and you wouldn't dare turn them out on their own, or take the other away and leave one in the field. One is rising 6, the other rising 9.

I have owned the younger one since she was a foal. She was a piece of cake to back. In the October of her third year, she moved from where I had kept her down to Edinburgh where I kept my other horse. At the time I was on livery, they shared a field with another horse. Both were fairly easy to separate, I'd leave one in the field with the other mare while I rode etc.

I then moved to my own place in January 07, the year my baby turned 4. For various reasons I couldn't get back on her till the summer, but that didn't bother me as she was still young. To make life easier, I took them both back to my trainer (who helped me back the youngster) so I could start her again. The first day I got back on, she was awful - to the point where she reared up and came over backwards on top of me. Luckily by this point she was back on a lunge line as we could see things were escalating; so trainer managed to direct her head/control the body so she didn't really squash me as such.

Anyway, we all got quite a scare. So she stayed at trainers for boot camp, and I took my other mare home, who settled fine on her own (she's not great left in the stable on her own, but totally fine to ride etc so isn't really the problem, other than screaming at her buddy).

Trainer was giving the youngster glowing reports, I went to ride her a couple of times; she's defo quirky but was jumping, going well etc. She came home after a couple of months. She is always fine(ish) to ride as long as you take her away in the box; albeit sharp as a tack. But since that first time, she hasn't reared with me again.

Yesterday I got an almighty fuss from them, because she is a bit sore on a splint, so I turned her into a little bit of hardstanding and turned my other mare out in the paddock literally right next to her. They both screamed and had a fit about it. Luckily they did settle, and today they mosied out to their separate turnout areas without a whimper. But they both behave atrociously when separated, and just before new year the baby ran over the top of me because my OH was leading her friend into her stable and she'd gone round the corner. Cue one twisted knee and one OH nearly throttling the baby there and then
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I don't really know what I'm getting at here- but am I putting up with too much from them? (Answer is yes, I'm sure!) The baby (can't really call her that any more, can I
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?) has been off work for flipping months, and I'm wondering on several levels if I'm better off shipping her out somewhere to be started again, where she doesn't have her buddy. However, as I don't have a school at home, I'd be trailering her off somewhere as it is. I'm not sure if there is anything I can really do about this bonding? Their stables have bars between them; and I wonder if I should cover them up. One night I had to put one in the box across the yard, and again they spent ages thrashing about as they weren't right next to each other. They drive me flipping batty
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One option is a companion, but I'm not sure I can fund another set of shoes etc. Plus I'm a wimp and probably wouldn't leave it out on it's own when mine come in at night; so I'd end up mucking out three instead of two
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Thank heavens that I can at least mooch away on the older one on a hack without a fuss, but I'd never dare hack away from the stables on my litle one - she'd most certainly nap like a good 'un. She certainly meekly walks into the box when you take her away; and loves to work. But OH and I are hoping one day to move to a place with more land where I can build an arena. He'd kill me if I said I can't ride her at home because they scream and shout at each other and refuse to behave.
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God this has become a very whinging post, sorry! Feel better already for having shared, but feel free to come up with some ideas! In actual fact I had a great weekend, the sun was shining, I had two lovely hacks on my sensible horse (wearing my new musto snug chaps which might be the world's best invention ever
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) and am drinking some lovely Wolfblass! So all is good really, but I have to sort out this flipping ridiculous lesbian love-in my horses have.
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I have two mares at home too, and I feel your pain. Mine aren't quite as bad though, can hack them both out seperately and ride in the school with just a bit of shouting, but I def wouldn't turn one out without the other one, and they are pains when taken out to a competition together.

I think perhaps you have to bite the bullet with your younger one, and try a short hack on her own. It may actually make her feel more confident in herself. Would your OH come out with you on foot or a bike??

Fiona
 
It's the biting the bullet part that worries me
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Seriously though, I think we're a bit away from that; but you are right at some point it will have to happen
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. And right now there is no way I'd take both competing; especially as I have a trailer as I think they would trash it beyond repair
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I presume this is a mare thing, I don't remember it being this bad when I had two geldings
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I might just have to change my username
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Well I 'bit the bullet' and took my mare hunting (she had been out before on her own and was fine). She was an idiot because OH and his mare were up in front as whipper in, and galloped through rather than over a ditch in a panic (silly witch). We were both lucky not to break our legs.

Seriously though - if you can gradually get them to spend more time apart (starting even with a couple of minutes) hopefully they will get better with time.

Fiona
 
Your hunting story sounds scary as hell
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glad you both survived unscathed!

I did take hope from the fact that they were so settled today after yesterday's nonsense. At least they are smart enough to figure these things out. But if not, one will be looking for a new home soon
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there is an old saying "keep one or three". two get terribly clingy especially mares! get a companion who is barefoot and minimal upkeep! your youngster is not a youngster if 4 in 07 she is now 7 no excuse for lack of manners!
 
[ QUOTE ]
there is an old saying "keep one or three". two get terribly clingy especially mares! get a companion who is barefoot and minimal upkeep! your youngster is not a youngster if 4 in 07 she is now 7 no excuse for lack of manners!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, whoops no we moved here in Jan 08! She's def only still 5, not 6 till end of April
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I like the saying though! Not sure what OH would think about the wisdom of another horse though...
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I too have 2 mares. I have owned one for 7 yrs and the other for 2 yrs. I had them in seperate fields until about 6 wks ago for the very reason you are on about. They are in the same indoor stables opposite each other. I decided to put them together after S was in the field with a little grey mare who she was quite attached to until about 2 months ago when the little mare was PTS. S was fine on her own after 2-3 days but then new liveries came and her field was a nicer easier field so I decided to put them together. I ride S in the morning first, then let her out and ride R then put her out. S does shout at us if we are in the menage and skips at the gate when we are on our way to the field, but I know that if all others are in mine are out together. I also make a point of fetching them in seperately for the farrier, physio etc and I do take them out partying seperately. 2 weeks ago another horse was put in with them which makes it easier too. But the new one doesnt venture far from the gate yet but they all seem to get on.
I also give S some chickory from the Bach flower remedy range as this is supposed to help with possessiveness and attachment issues etc. It helped her loads with the little grey mare as she used to wait at the gate calling if the grey was out riding etc and then rear and bronk at the gate when she could see them coming to the gate to put her out.
With mine I was already in the habit of riding one whilst leaving the other in etc so it was easier, but your situation is harder and I can sympathise with you. When I am riding S, the other is in the stable so no problems as the other doesnt shout out, just eats haylage. And when I ride the other one, S is in the field and can see us so stands at the gate and shouts the odd time but R doesnt bother except give her the odd glance so I am quite lucky compared to you.
I would be inclined to get a friend to share the field if you have the room or buy a donkey or pony that can live out or even if it had to live in, it would be worth the extra mucking out to give you a better time with your mares.
You could always try putting them in the next fields again for a few days then moving say, 2 paddocks away and gradually seperate them but so they could still see each other.
Anything is worth a try as she is getting dangerous and it wont get any better if you keep it as it is.
It is so stressful when we have to watch our horses worked up but its worse when our own safety is at risk.
I hope you sort something out. Try the chicory even. Good Luck...
 
You're right, I've not made things easy on myself by letting this go on for so long; and just having the two with no other horses even within sight is the worst possible scenario.

Will definitely look into the chickory. Anything is worth a try
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We have a mare like this on my yard and she is an absolute nightmare, they have owned her for just over a year, she is attached to the horse they had first to the point that if they are separated whoever is left in the stable runs round it screeming like a banshee, they were hosing her legs after last Easter and she wanted to go back to her stable and literally threw herself at a brickwall a couple of times, she had been left tied up and unattended, caught it on the CCTV, she managed to smash the wall which was built of breezeblocks. They then brought a nice little mare to sell on before christmas the mare had only been on the yard two weeks and was taken out to be worked and the original mare totally freaked out and appparently kept throwing herself at the doors, terrified one of the younger liveries who can running to get me by the time I got there she had smashed the stable door down and the brick pillar and was standing at the back of her stable shaking. She has also jumped out of a field because there were some people walking by and then promptly galloped around the yard for about 1/2 hour before we could get anywhere near her to catch her and when we caught her all she did was kept rearing all the way back to the stable block. She is the only mare I have ever come across that is like this to the point that I even said to the owners to get shot of her as she is so klingy she is the same at shows and kicks seven bells out of their lorry.
 
How funny, because all my mae would have rather cut their heads off than call for one of their friends/ sisters.

I have the same problem with my gelding now and it drives me nuts. He will happily go anywhere alone, and behave like a dream, but OMG if he goes with another horse he is a nightmare. Screaming and shouting, refusing to concentrate (unless its jumping). He'll warm up beautifully if they are there, but if not I might as well forget it.

I think he's worse after this enforced snow break, and I accept I'm going to have a few wasted entry fees until he starts to get a bit better again.

I will add he is fine at home, as he knows his friends sre in the field, but if you keep him and another in, and then take the other away, its toys out the pram time.

I don't pander to him at all, and just carry on, and let him have his paddys. It does eventually get better.
 
My boy is clingy, he's very attached to my pony and also the shetland, wont let another horse go in between him and then when being ridden, yells the place down and fence/box walks if my pony if taken out riding or in without him despite him being out or in with other horses.
He's fine if either myself or my friend stay with him while the pony is taken away or if he's ridden or brought in without her though.
He's very jealous and over protective it makes things harder to deal with but with perseverance if manageable.
 
It sounds as though you have enough stables/land to enforce a gradual 'weaning' by having them in seperate turnout areas and stables that are not next to each other. You need to make a point of turning them in/out seperately (start off with literally a few mins and increase slowly) and apply this philosophy to everything you do with them. If either one is unlikely to walk calmy when the other is out of sight then carry a stick - it is amazing how the surprise of a smack can snap them out of it - much like a slap to a hysterical woman! I know its hard but you are strengthening this bond and behaviour every day that you give in to it and I can guess that when you try to take your 5/6 year old out by herself it will not be fine at all - you can't allow this behaviour in every other area then suddenly expect her to forget about it one day because you want to tak her out alone - it just doesn't work like that.
Make a start now and if you really can't make it work then you need a hardy pony that can go barefoot and live off fresh air so that neither one ever gets left alone but you will still need to wean them off each other.
It is always a good idea to change routines/turnout/stabling arrangements frequently when you only have two - that way you don't allow them to develop too much of a dependancy - but it does take more effort and you will have to be strict and consistent if you are to succeed.
 
Hi everyone, just wanted to say thanks for all the replies, I can't get on HHO at work (wonder why
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) so only just getting back to it now.

Lots to think about and Lulup you are totally right, I know that if I want her to behave when ridden she needs to get the message on the ground/day to day life first.

Mind you, at least they aren't as bad as one of the posts above! The 5yo actually stands very quietly in the stable when left behind; and the older one whinnies and box walks, but no thrashing. So at least I can still separate them this way!

Unfortunately the 5yo is a bit lame just now so not about to encourage mad galloping by separating them. But as soon as that's sorted I'll work out a plan
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