Overuse of the whip at BE events?

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MagicMelon

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Is there any rule about overuse of the whip at a BE event? Went XC fence judging yesterday (as not competing due to pregnancy) and saw what I would definately call overuse of the whip with a horse refusing a fence. Hit 4 times first refual, 4 times again second and then 5 times for 3rd refusal, and these were hard hits (one hand on rein and full smacks type). It wasnt at my fence or I would have reported it and Im unsure if the fence judge on that fence did. Either way, I know theres a rule as to how many times you can hit a horse in a BS class but is there anything specific for BE?

Personally I was pretty horrified, as someone who doesnt even carry a whip anymore at home or when competing, I cant fathom this acceptance of whipping and would happily see whips banned! I just wondered what rule, if any, there is :(
 
Yes, overuse of the whip can and ought to be reported. I’ve done so in the past.

Did the FJ not mention it to control? Control need to be aware so that they can monitor the round and, if necessary, pull the rider up.

ETA You could contact the organisers now with your concerns if you have the rider’s number.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Yes, overuse of the whip can and ought to be reported. I’ve done so in the past.

Did the FJ not mention it to control? Control need to be aware so that they can monitor the round and, if necessary, pull the rider up.
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No they didnt over the radio. In this case, the rider was eliminated at the fence anyway so no further monitoring was needed.
 
MagicMelon said:
No they didnt over the radio. In this case, the rider was eliminated at the fence anyway so no further monitoring was needed.
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OK. The FJ should have notified control rather than just write it in comments. TD could have hot footed over and dealt with it there and then, which is what happened when I reported a rider. The horse should have been checked over for whip marks.
 
I remember Lexi posting this a few weeks ago. What sort of pre XC briefing did you get, MM?
Lexi_ said:
A full weekend of fence judging at Cholmondeley. Woo hoo!!! I cannot wait. We haven’t done any since Kelsall last September (I think - feels about 6 years ago!) and I’ve missed it so much.

Shall report back about what it’s like in this weird new world. I’ve watched the briefing video on YouTube and particularly enjoyed the TA in full eventing kit on his horse to demonstrate safe whip usage ?
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The video should be viewable by anyone on YT I think - it was a BE one. There was clear info on there about what’s acceptable frequency and placement of whip usage.

I’ve had TDs in the past who’ve encouraged us to report anything to Control if we think it’s not right. That way they can monitor it around the course if the round is still in progress. Obvs not the case here but still! Control can be a hectic place and they don’t always see everything.

MM, I’d email them if I were you. The fact the rider got eliminated doesn’t really mean anything - they deal with misuse of the whip separately.
 
I would have just requested that the TD visit my fence if you didn't hear the fj say anything. You could have then reported the rider directly to the TD. But if control had sight of the fence they may have seen it however usually control would have told the FJ's that they had noted it.
 
Henry02 said:
I will point out that whips (when used correctly are a useful tool). Just because you don’t have to use them, there are many people that do
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True but I think it’s really rare that it’s ever actually ok to whack a horse for refusing a fence. A slap down the shoulder to keep the horse straight if needed going in perhaps, or some encouragement if backing off, but a horse refusing and being belted for it repeatedly? How many horses actually refuse out of “naughtiness”? Unless napping or doing something dangerous I just can’t understand it.

I think it’s really unpleasant to see tbh.
 
I reported someone when I was a FJ.... 2 other FJ's did as well.... the person was allowed to continue and won their section. I was very sad (it was a BE event and not unaffiliated, I sent an email complaint in as it made me feel very uneasy).
 
I score every week at eventing ireland registered events, and we make sure that we check the FJ score sheets for comments like this in case they didn't get them reported at the time (sometimes as above it is because the person is eliminated, but there is a separate 'punishment' for over use of the whip which is not related to the elimination).
I would encourage fence judges to note this even if it isn't at their fence (with a comment to that effect) as the chief steward / TD needs to investigate. Sadly recently seen most with kids on ponies in the 90 & 100 class, which is depressing :-(
 
Most riders are very aware of the whip rules and adhere to them .
I do think use of the whip should be spoken about at every FJ briefing so each time the FJ’s are clear when they should radio in and when they should note on their sheet
 
Henry02 said:
I will point out that whips (when used correctly are a useful tool). Just because you don’t have to use them, there are many people that do
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No one is disputing that. Unfortunately most people use them as a tool for punishment, which is never what they were intended for.

I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I've carried a crop in the last 10/15 years. I don't even own one!
 
IrishMilo said:
Unfortunately most people use them as a tool for punishment, which is never what they were intended for.
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Whoah, steady on :eek:. Not true in my experience. A light correctly timed tap for encouragement or correction can be invaluable.

I wonder if whip refuseniks are best placed to judge whip misuse?
 
I was taught never to get on a horse without a whip and doubly so if out hacking on the roads. Just because you carry a whip does not mean you have to use is. A stick laid down the shoulder is very effective at stopping a horse stepping out into the traffic or held out at right angles keeps cars from getting too close.

I do however agree that it isn't designed to be used as a punishment - that is down to ignorance / bad temper.
 
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