Overweight cob , best way to

[motherof2beasts!]

2 full trugs, with about 4kg of soaked hay. Do you weigh your hay? It’s key, I find.

feed trugs or water ones?! I have a feeling he’ll scoff in one to begin ?

 

[brighteyes]

He is very very good at disposing of muzzles/fly masks etc.

this sounds thick but I’ve not heard of feeding oat straw feeds instead of hay/horsehage. Someone mentioned no hay or haylage but trugs of straw chaff, someone also mentioned hifi molasses free. Currently he has a very small handful of hifi molashses free a day and wolfs it down so if I did leave trugs of it he would 100% eat it all. Is there one that’s less tasty than hifi molasses free and how much do you leave in stable ?!

Rule of thumb: 'if they wolf it down it has calories'.

There are currently (I think) 4 safe and boring bagged chaffs round us
Honeychop plain - looks like bedding (baled, chopped oat straw) but less palatable (no idea why!)
Honeychop Lite - slightly more interesting with a cinnamon and marigold influence
TopChop Zéro - minty version of first option and posher bag/more £££
TopChop Light and Healthy - slightly lighter (weight per scoop) version of ...
Dengie Hi-Fi Molasses Free - the most dense and tasty of the 4

All the above have low sugar and starch combined % per kg as fed (aim for below 10% but ideally half that) BUT don't feed by volume or scoop as the volume of a kg of feathers is way more than a kg of lead, especially when considering the last two options. The calorific value of all the other diet stuff Hi-Fi Lite and Happy Hoof etc are much higher scoop/kg -wise.
I blend at least 3 of the above for palatability and add soaked speedibeet which can, for added security, be rinsed after soaking. Helps the chewing being succulent and adds that element to what can be a very dessicated diet unless you are soaking forage.

Can/do you swing your net away from the wall (e.g. from a stable rafter)? That slows them also. Remember to feed a few handfuls of the ration loose and easy to get, so as not to cause frustration.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

He is very very good at disposing of muzzles/fly masks etc.

this sounds thick but I’ve not heard of feeding oat straw feeds instead of hay/horsehage. Someone mentioned no hay or haylage but trugs of straw chaff, someone also mentioned hifi molasses free. Currently he has a very small handful of hifi molasses free a day and wolfs it down so if I did leave trugs of it he would 100% eat it all. Is there one that’s less tasty than hifi molasses free and how much do you leave in stable ?!

We have had horses that can't tolerate alfalfa, so routinely avoid it. We used to use it for an elderly cob to maintain her weight but have young horses now.
I rationed the hay for the obese Draft horse, she had a small amount when she came in for the night, about 5.00pm in the darkest winter nights, then another small amount about 7.00pm and a top up about 11.00 pm. She had a trug full of Honeychop plain oat straw chaff (NOT Lite & Healthy). I didn't want to encourage her to eat it, but it was available if she felt the need to eat. This regime 'reset' her and encouraged her to only eat when she was hungry. I knew where she had been before the people that I bought her from, she would have been fed and worked appropriately but unfortunately for the 9 months before she came to me, she had been overfed on inappropriate feed. At her fattest/hungriest we got through 2 bags of Honeychop each week.
The 2 horses that we have now lived out this winter, with haylage and trugs of oat straw chaff available in their shelter, so that they did not get too fat.

 

[brighteyes]

No one is ticking you off. People are talking from (+ bitter ) experience to help. X

<--- I inherited an overfed EMS/PPID Pony and battled with none of the knowledge and meds we have now. HHO helped enormously, but I consider a sound knowledge of feeding requirements and values combined with the absolute ideal body score condition to be essential. Hence also my comments re taking on a horse known to be previously (or currently) overweight as being very brave.
Fat (as stored on the body ESPECIALLY on the crest) is not an inert feature. It secrètes damaging hormones which are essentially a ticking time-bomb and you (or another owner further down the line) will inherit a metabolic nightmare.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Rule of thumb: 'if they wolf it down it has calories'.

There are currently (I think) 4 safe and boring bagged chaffs round us
Honeychop plain - looks like bedding (baled, chopped oat straw) but less palatable (no idea why!)
Honeychop Lite - slightly more interesting with a cinnamon and marigold influence
TopChop Zéro - minty version of first option and posher bag/more £££
TopChop Light and Healthy - slightly lighter (weight per scoop) version of ...
Dengie Hi-Fi Molasses Free - the most dense and tasty of the 4

All the above have low sugar and starch combined % per kg as fed (aim for below 10% but ideally half that) BUT don't feed by volume or scoop as the volume of a kg of feathers is way more than a kg of lead, especially when considering the last two options. The calorific value of all the other diet stuff Hi-Fi Lite and Happy Hoof etc are much higher scoop/kg -wise.
I blend at least 3 of the above for palatability and add soaked speedibeet which can, for added security, be rinsed after soaking. Helps the chewing being succulent and adds that element to what can be a very dessicated diet unless you are soaking forage.

Can/do you swing your net away from the wall (e.g. from a stable rafter)? That slows them also. Remember to feed a few handfuls of the ration loose and easy to get, so as not to cause frustration.

I have a nibbleze net which slows him down but only a fraction unfortunately. He has hi fi mollasses free already with his supplements and wolfs it down so I think if I left 2 trugs of that he’d stuff it quick so might try top chop zero.

he eats sooo fast I worry that by now he has probably ploughed through the nibbleze net of blue horse hage and will be hangry. Do you think it’s best to soak hay for 12 hours then give more than the current portion of horsehage? He has already cottoned on and was not easy to catch this morning !

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Rule of thumb: 'if they wolf it down it has calories'.

There are currently (I think) 4 safe and boring bagged chaffs round us
Honeychop plain - looks like bedding (baled, chopped oat straw) but less palatable (no idea why!)
Honeychop Lite - slightly more interesting with a cinnamon and marigold influence
TopChop Zéro - minty version of first option and posher bag/more £££
TopChop Light and Healthy - slightly lighter (weight per scoop) version of ...
Dengie Hi-Fi Molasses Free - the most dense and tasty of the 4

All the above have low sugar and starch combined % per kg as fed (aim for below 10% but ideally half that) BUT don't feed by volume or scoop as the volume of a kg of feathers is way more than a kg of lead, especially when considering the last two options. The calorific value of all the other diet stuff Hi-Fi Lite and Happy Hoof etc are much higher scoop/kg -wise.
I blend at least 3 of the above for palatability and add soaked speedibeet which can, for added security, be rinsed after soaking. Helps the chewing being succulent and adds that element to what can be a very dessicated diet unless you are soaking forage.

Can/do you swing your net away from the wall (e.g. from a stable rafter)? That slows them also. Remember to feed a few handfuls of the ration loose and easy to get, so as not to cause frustration.

I wouldn't feed a chaff with *anything* added - that rather defeats the object imho. Halley's also make a plain oat straw chaff.
I agree that haynets can be very frustrating - I feed hay loose, as horses are grazers rather than browsers by nature. The Draft horse always had 2 big trugs of water available because I really didn't want to soak her hay.

 

[brighteyes]

feed trugs or water ones?! I have a feeling he’ll scoff in one to begin ?

I bet he won't scoff Honeychop oat straw! If he does, Lord help you with this diet

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I have a nibbleze net which slows him down but only a fraction unfortunately. He has hi fi mollasses free already with his supplements and wolfs it down so I think if I left 2 trugs of that he’d stuff it quick so might try top chop zero.

he eats sooo fast I worry that by now he has probably ploughed through the nibbleze net of blue horse hage and will be hangry. Do you think it’s best to soak hay for 12 hours then give more than the current portion of horsehage? He has already cottoned on and was not easy to catch this morning !

Horses usually wolf down Top Chop Zero, too. Honestly you need to feed something that doesn't encourage him to eat it. He will eat plain oat straw chaff if he is hungry, if he won't eat it, he doesn't need it. With a fatty you really do need to harden your heart.

 

[Widgeon]

For context mine did just over 100 miles in walk and trot in March and that just about kept on top of the weight gain from spring grass intake.

Mine has done similar this last month (so no spring grass to contend with!), but with more canter and lots of hills. He's also a 15.1hh cob, in a restricted grazing paddock (I strip graze him to control his intake) and two small feeds of oats a day otherwise he runs out of whizz and we can't manage enough exercise to keep him fit. On that regime he's maintaining a nice respectable weight. I could get him slimmer but then he'd be constantly hangry so this is a compromise. When the spring grass is coming through I have to muzzle him or he balloons. In winter he's in at night with really poor quality hay and then he nibbles his straw bed. It's really hard OP, and you will probably have to get used to feeling quite mean, a lot of the time. Also - take each day as it comes - I (visually) check my horses's condition every day and his access to grass is adjusted accordingly, and depending on how much I can ride that week. Good luck, sounds like you've got quite a tricky one to sort out.

 

[brighteyes]

I have a nibbleze net which slows him down but only a fraction unfortunately. ***He has hi fi mollasses free already with his supplements and wolfs it down ***so I think if I left 2 trugs of that he’d stuff it quick so might try top chop zero.

he eats sooo fast I worry that by now he has probably ploughed through the nibbleze net of blue horse hage and will be hangry. Do you think it’s best to soak hay for 12 hours then give more than the current portion of horsehage? He has already cottoned on and was not easy to catch this morning !

See my post re volume vs weight and sugar and starch combined % AS FED. It's dense and heavy. And tasty.

 

[brighteyes]

Horses usually wolf down Top Chop Zero, too. Honestly you need to feed something that doesn't encourage him to eat it. He will eat plain oat straw chaff if he is hungry, if he won't eat it, he doesn't need it. With a fatty you really do need to harden your heart.

It must be the mint. Mine aren't so starving that they attack the two plainest chaffs but i blend them all, proportionately.

 

[brighteyes]

@Pearlsasinger - same page, eh!

 

[brighteyes]

I wouldn't feed a chaff with *anything* added - that rather defeats the object imho. Halley's also make a plain oat straw chaff.
I agree that haynets can be very frustrating - I feed hay loose, as horses are grazers rather than browsers by nature. The Draft horse always had 2 big trugs of water available because I really didn't want to soak her hay.

Agree for dieters. I forgot to qualify mine have been on lifelong preventative regimes and I have flexibility. And a set up which allows fine-tuning and mix and match. And a horse walker. You are correct for the reduction stage. And if you are unlucky, the future.

 

[windand rain]

I don't need to feed much oat straw as they are out 24/7 so always have grass to nibble on and find they have the oat straw as a supplement if the poo rate drops too low which means not enough fibre is being found. I know I am lucky to be able to have grass no mud and keep them out on the track as I have pretty much control over every blade of grass

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Agree for dieters. I forgot to qualify mine have been on lifelong preventative regimes and I have flexibility. And a set up which allows fine-tuning and mix and match. And a horse walker. You are correct for the reduction stage. And if you are unlucky, the future.

We are very careful wtih our current, younger horses. Now that they have stopped growing, they have the chaff available to fill up on, rather than risking ulcers or over-eating.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

feed trugs or water ones?! I have a feeling he’ll scoff in one to begin ?

2 feed trugs, I have the standard black tyre types. Mine is a huge fuss ar$e but likes Top Chop Zero, it is soft and smells nice. He only gets a hard feed to get his Danilon down. Has anyone mentioned fast fibre yet? Low calorice, filling, mine has half a handful with his chaff.

 

[southerncomfort]

Just wanted to say that I've found this thread really helpful.

I've been really struggling with my mini shetland who can't be exercised due to a wonky hind foot.

Despite doing literally everything I can she is not losing any weight.

I've now just ordered some Honeychop oat straw chaff to give her during the day instead of soaked hay, which I've been unconvinced has been helping.

Fingers crossed this will make a difference!

 

[motherof2beasts!]

I have also found you all very helpful, sorry about my initial defensiveness , I have up till now never had a good doer and it’s been a bit of a shock.

I am trying to find out his ideal weight but struggling if anyone knows a good guide. He is 15.2 with 9 inch of bone !

 

[HappyHollyDays]

For those that feed chaff such as HoneyChop as a hay replacer do you give the same weight you would give in hay? I feed a handful soaked to my Connie as he has Danilon and supplements but he also has 4 small soaked nets in a 24 hour period which equate to 1.5% of his body weight. He isn’t overweight but is getting over concussion laminitis and has always been on a low starch sugar diet along with the other one who has EMS.

Motherof2beasts you need to either get a weigh tape or take him to the vets and put him on the horse scales. The latter are far more accurate but the tape will give you a good idea.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I'd do all the following;
1. Restrict his grazing to a smaller paddock within the paddock.
2. Bring him in and give him low sugar haylage (Horsehage timothy is best, but the high fibre isn't too bad). Don't soak it - you can get secondary fermentation which you really don't want.
3. Don't use soaked hay - the sugar levels are too unpredictable even after 12 hour soaking.
4. If you want to reduce calories further, consider giving him some low sugar chaffs in the stable instead - Top Chop Zero (very low), Hi Fi Molasses Free, Honeychop Lite and Healthy, Bailey's light chaff, etc.
5. Weigh tape him (round his girth area) and keep a record so that you can tell if he is actually gaining or losing weight.
6. The Blue Cross website have good charts for condition scoring (and I think some videos too).

Good luck.

Pretty much this.

Also with mine I, if in work, clip but seriously under rug. As long as they are warm and not "toasty" they will be using their own body weight to keep warm.

Mine has a truck full. Of lite and healthy and smaller amount of hay.


You need to feel the ribs easily and see a shimmer when they move.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I have also found you all very helpful, sorry about my initial defensiveness , I have up till now never had a good doer and it’s been a bit of a shock.

I am trying to find out his ideal weight but struggling if anyone knows a good guide. He is 15.2 with 9 inch of bone !

You need a weight bridge to really know his weight now weight tapes aren't totally accurate.

Body condition scoring will be your best bet. Feel ribs easily and see a shimmer when moving.

This is how I do mine. But we also have spillers out twice a year with the weight bridge.

 

[brighteyes]

Just wanted to say that I've found this thread really helpful.

I've been really struggling with my mini shetland who can't be exercised due to a wonky hind foot.

Despite doing literally everything I can she is not losing any weight.

I've now just ordered some Honeychop oat straw chaff to give her during the day instead of soaked hay, which I've been unconvinced has been helping.

Fingers crossed this will make a difference!

If it doesn't seem to be working, you might need to test for EMS and go about calculating rations scientifically.

 

[southerncomfort]

If it doesn't seem to be working, you might need to test for EMS and go about calculating rations scientifically.

Vet said she almost certainly does have EMS and we can talk about going on Metformin for a period if I can't get her to lose weight at all.

Not being able to exercise her is the killer really. Remarkably she has never had heat or raised pulses and never had laminitis to my knowledge but I treat her as if she has it anyway.

 

[brighteyes]

Vet said she almost certainly does have EMS and we can talk about going on Metformin for a period if I can't get her to lose weight at all.

Not being able to exercise her is the killer really. Remarkably she has never had heat or raised pulses and never had laminitis to my knowledge but I treat her as if she has it anyway.

Not sure where you can go from here as you have all the bases covered. Unless you can take her swimming!

 

[windand rain]

Swimming could be perfect but finding a good value pool or safe spot is a bit more difficult I would guess

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Another advocate for horse swimming here. Both mine go and it is fantastic for boosting the metabolism. The more muscle they amass the more the metabolism burns, they get fit and slim right down but as windand rain says finding a pool can be a bit of a challenge.

 

[brighteyes]

Another advocate for horse swimming here. Both mine go and it is fantastic for boosting the metabolism. The more muscle they amass the more the metabolism burns, they get fit and slim right down but as windand rain says finding a pool can be a bit of a challenge.

Under what plan do they go? Rehab livery or occasional visit or what?

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Under what plan do they go? Rehab livery or occasional visit or what?

First time they went on rehab, B had mild laminitis and the insurance paid. I sent DP with him because he has EMS and they stayed for 10 days They now go when I can get there but they haven’t been this year as they haven’t needed to.

 

[SEL]

I have also found you all very helpful, sorry about my initial defensiveness , I have up till now never had a good doer and it’s been a bit of a shock.

I am trying to find out his ideal weight but struggling if anyone knows a good guide. He is 15.2 with 9 inch of bone !

My Ardennes is 14.3 with a lot of bone and weighs in at around 660kg when you can just feel ribs. Tape vs bridge was in the same ballpark for him

His part bred partner in crime is 15.2, has legs that are too skinny for her torso, but still weighs in at 620kg when at her slimmest (ribs were there if you poked hard). Right now she is out of work and over weight and I suspect around the same as the Ardennes. Tape was 40kg under compared to weigh bridge with her.

I don't worry too much about their actual weight (especially as a lot of weigh tapes stop at the 600kg level!) but I do want to be able to feel ribs with a bit of a poke. The Ardennes will drop weight significantly around October when his massive winter coat starts growing so right now I'm happy with him carrying a bit extra. The part bred has spent her life on a diet and I can never take my eye off the ball with her annoyingly.

 

[SEL]

In during the day, out for a limited time at night if possible. Is there anywhere he can go that isn’t grass so you can control his intake? I think upping work and having a calorific deficit is the only solution, same as us on a diet.



I was told off by the saddler for ’allowing him’ to lose so much weight over winter. He’s not thin here, but he’s a healthy weight, IMO, not rugged over winter unless fully clipped.
View attachment 77797

Looks like a nice weight there - I'd be over the moon with that!