Overweight Horses!!

moleskinsmum said:
I still find it harder to condition score cobs than other horses and constantly keep an eye on his weight.
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This!! Mine will take a while to come back down. I can just about find ribs, he is cresty and has a whopper of an *rse.

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Although you say this post is not aimed at those that try to keep weight off how do you actually know what people are trying to do? It’s not as if they go around with a billboard explaining their management regime.

I’ve struggled to keep weight off my now 23 year old without making his life miserable. Eating is his life.

When he had to lose weight for an op 4 years ago he lost about 20kg in two months but only because he was kept in a tiny starvation paddock. The vet expected him to lose 50kg but as he had virtually nothing extra before his diet it was hard to cut anything further out. I was a bit cheesed off with the vets accusatory tone as if I stuffed him with food!

He has 4kg of all day soaked hay at night Up to 6kg in winter, unmolassed chaff and a balancer or micronised linseed to go with his turmeric, brewers yeast and Buteless. He may have a cup of fibre nuts in the winter.

I can’t ride off the calories anymore as he’s not up to intense schooling or fast hacks anymore. Muzzles rub him badly and if you put him in a starvation paddock he either breaks out of throws a tantrum - literally! I fear he will injure himself. He’s Cushings tested at least once a year and I hope that being a WB and not suffering any underlying condition he won’t get lami.
 
OP your boy is SO similar to my Sec D (not the horse in my avatar). They are virtually identical (including weight) aside from face markings.
 
Mine breaks out of her stable if she gets hungry and goes and steals the old pony's net over his stable door! And apparently top chop zero does not count as food in her book anymore (it worked for a while!). So it is a balancing act but we've still managed to get 40kg off over winter. I am placing my hope in a fast approaching yard move and access to better hacking so I can work some more off over summer!

It's hard (for both those with good doers and those who struggle to get weight on) and all too easy to judge.
 
Agree with the OP - I fight all year round to get weight off them over winter or keep it at bay or reasonable in summer.

A good friend of mine has a horse on loan who was morbidly obese she. She got her late last summer. She struggled for time anyway and it was mainly for her son to ride who is at school so little hours over winter in daylight. She was rugged in case son wanted to ride and on ad-lib hay as her field companion is old and needs it. She’s come out of winter as fat as she went in and now has laminitis in all 4 feet ��

My Friesianwas obese when I bought her and she lives out, was put on a track system and ridden as much as possible no rugs in sight and I got the weight off her and still do the same now just to keep it down. I hate the show condition ponies I see winning rosettes who should be on a severe diet grr
 
PapaverFollis said:
Mine breaks out of her stable if she gets hungry and goes and steals the old pony's net over his stable door! And apparently top chop zero does not count as food in her book anymore (it worked for a while!). So it is a balancing act but we've still managed to get 40kg off over winter. I am placing my hope in a fast approaching yard move and access to better hacking so I can work some more off over summer!

It's hard (for both those with good doers and those who struggle to get weight on) and all too easy to judge.
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I agree!
 
Sussexbythesea said:
Although you say this post is not aimed at those that try to keep weight off how do you actually know what people are trying to do? It’s not as if they go around with a billboard explaining their management regime.

I’ve struggled to keep weight off my now 23 year old without making his life miserable. Eating is his life.

When he had to lose weight for an op 4 years ago he lost about 20kg in two months but only because he was kept in a tiny starvation paddock. The vet expected him to lose 50kg but as he had virtually nothing extra before his diet it was hard to cut anything further out. I was a bit cheesed off with the vets accusatory tone as if I stuffed him with food!

He has 4kg of all day soaked hay at night Up to 6kg in winter, unmolassed chaff and a balancer or micronised linseed to go with his turmeric, brewers yeast and Buteless. He may have a cup of fibre nuts in the winter.

I can’t ride off the calories anymore as he’s not up to intense schooling or fast hacks anymore. Muzzles rub him badly and if you put him in a starvation paddock he either breaks out of throws a tantrum - literally! I fear he will injure himself. He’s Cushings tested at least once a year and I hope that being a WB and not suffering any underlying condition he won’t get lami.
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But I’ve made it clear in my original post that my frustration is aimed at owners who are happy that their horses are overweight, with posts on social media saying - “look at his/her amazing neck” which is just all fat and very little muscle. I saw a picture of a horse posted only yesterday with the owner boasting he is 800kg and people were swooning over him! It’s this attitude I’m against.

I don’t judge overweight horses that you randomly see as like you said I’m clueless to it’s management (unless in the show ring which I think is the exception as they are produced to look like that)

I’m sorry to hear the struggles you’re having with your boy, you’re clearly doing everything you possibly can x
 
My friend has 2 section A lead reigns. She will go to some shows and be told her horse needs more condition but another that says her pony should be more toned as they are a little fat. All very misleading. I personally thought her mare looked great when she roughed out last winter and had dropped some weight but kept some muscle as she was moving around a field.
I was a tb ex racer whose ribs you can always feel regardless of his belly size! But he lacks muscle tone as he is retired. I have a spotty 16’2 who is a very good doer and she holds fat in the bad pockets.
I am very lucky that I rent a large field that I have now put a track around, so they have about 2 acres to live out on- with about 6-8 acres now shut off in the middle. Keeps retired boy moving and he gets fitter!
Sadly this is often not an option, fatties end up in tiny squares to try and reduce grass, but then they don’t move.

I do think there are mixed messages in general, not just showing.
Same with dogs actually- recently got a 3yo lab who is actually skinny- needs some more muscle as barely been walked, but vet agreed with me that he is actually a healthy weight. My MIL thought he looked emaciated!
 
I do know the sort of post you mean OP, frankly there are some terrifying 'your horse looks amazing' post on Welsh groups on FB.

Frank (welsh) was huge when I got him, but he spent most of his life with me looking ok though built more traditional than yours with a ribcage that would mean he never really looked 'slim' even with ribs showing. Any periods out of work have always been his downfall and moving from flat somerset to the wiltshire hills was the making of him! At 25 we just do what we can nowadays. It was a bit gutting when I first had to semi retire him as I was so used to him looking fit but I've gotten used to it.
 
pippixox said:
I was a tb ex racer whose ribs you can always feel regardless of his belly size!
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Belly size isn't a good indicator of a horse's weight/condition generally speaking. You can have a horse with a huge belly who's still too thin (hence visible ribs) - big bellies can be caused by poor quality hay/gas/lack of correct muscle usage etc.
 
op your horse looks great, if he is bright and lively and works enthusiastically you have got it spot on, even if some think he looks lacking in muscle, its how he feels to you under saddle.

so many horses are too fat AND unfit at the same time, too much grub, not enough hard work
 
ester said:
I do know the sort of post you mean OP, frankly there are some terrifying 'your horse looks amazing' post on Welsh groups on FB.
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The Welsh groups are the absolute worst for this, and yet most people in the Traditional groups I'm a member of are really waking up to the problem, so hopefully the former will soon follow suit.

OP, I agree that there are so many fat horses around that it's hard to remember what a healthy weight looks like anymore. One of my boys had laminitis last year, and although he wasn't morbidly obese, I look back at pictures now and know that he's carrying too much weight, yet he's slimmer on them than the vast majority of horses I see! He's particularly hard to manage, as he had to retire at seven and can't be exercised in-hand either, yet this winter I've done what I should have last winter and been absolutely draconian: no rugs, no hard feed, and out 24/7 in all weathers. He's going into spring looking slim and streamlined, as is my cob mare.

I'll tell you the really concerning part though: I constantly look at them beside other horses and wonder whether I've gone a little too far, and these are certainly not horses who are underweight! Then I remember that I'm meant to feel ribs, that the spring grass is already starting to round them out, and that in a month or so, I'll be panicking that they're piling it on too quickly! It's a never-ending cycle, and it's really hard to do the right thing when you constantly have the wrong thing (i.e. morbidly obese horses) staring you in the face.
 
EKW said:
You might hate people going on about overweight horses but I hate it when people say they "rescue" horses from racing and they are far too thin. No they are fit. They are super fit and muscled for the job.
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Agree with this totally, same goes for other horses in hard work, such as hunters and eventers. You wouldn't expect Mo Farah to be chubby and the same goes for equine athletes!

I'll never forget some dressage bod on FB criticising how Chilli Morning looked at the Rio Olympics, saying he was too thin and lacked topline! He was a top event horse at peak fitness, FGS!
 
What do people do to manage their cobs weight then? I acquired one late last year, before that I had a young tb type and I still have a Connie x tb so I've never been in the fat cob club before. She's lost a lot since last August but still very over weight. Out in the day, in at night and that can't change due to yard restrictions. Has a soaked net and a bucket of baileys light chaff at night (can't starve her, food is life and she's miserable with less). Working 6 days a week either schooling, jumping or hacking. Grazing isn't great which works well for me. Is it a case of just keep plodding on? What do others do?
 
PonyIAmNotFood said:
What do people do to manage their cobs weight then? I acquired one late last year, before that I had a young tb type and I still have a Connie x tb so I've never been in the fat cob club before. She's lost a lot since last August but still very over weight. Out in the day, in at night and that can't change due to yard restrictions. Has a soaked net and a bucket of baileys light chaff at night (can't starve her, food is life and she's miserable with less). Working 6 days a week either schooling, jumping or hacking. Grazing isn't great which works well for me. Is it a case of just keep plodding on? What do others do?
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I just do my best and try not to stress! Mine was kept in a stable for 6 weeks before I got him, with nothing to eat but straw. He was still fat so I don’t think anything I do is going to make him a normal weight. I just try and keep him at a weight that isn’t too bad. He did lose 100kg while on box rest with me His hay was soaked in a teeny holed net and was supplemented with straw. He was never hungry either but that’s clearly not sustainable long term.
 
Work for mine has always been key, and plenty at a good speed/interval work. But he also looked much fitter at 21 when we moved somewhere with daily hill work than he ever did at 14 on the somerset levels. It is what you do during those working 6 days that makes a difference.
 
You have to get heart rates up for exercise to work really well so that needs to be sweating and breathing heavily several times during each ride .
 
Did anyone see the wee chubby welsh a foal? He was adorable, I could just smoosh him! Still a wee baby so must have been some good milk from mama!

Nero comes out of winter lean, and gains over summer. Up and down every year. Seems the most natural way.

I’ve got a fat pony though whom I got a couple of months ago, muzzle will be going on this week!
 
Goldenstar said:
You have to get heart rates up for exercise to work really well so that needs to be sweating and breathing heavily several times during each ride .
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Interestingly, the WHW "right weight" campaign gives different advice, and recommends more time doing active walking and trotting, as this supposedly burns fat better than fast work, which uses up primarily carbs (aerobic vs. anaerobic energy use, is my guess). I wonder how this fits together.
 
It's true for people too, which is why you get 'fat burning zones' on cardio machines based on your heart rate. But I think generally people don't spend as long doing active walking/trotting as would be required, given how far horses ought to travel daily as most of us are time limited- though I'm a big fan of the 3/4 hour hack at weekends.
 
supsup said:
Interestingly, the WHW "right weight" campaign gives different advice, and recommends more time doing active walking and trotting, as this supposedly burns fat better than fast work, which uses up primarily carbs (aerobic vs. anaerobic energy use, is my guess). I wonder how this fits together.
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Once they are reasonably fit most chunky types will be able to do steady exercise for several hours without getting tired or it having much influence on their weight, other than not eating in that time which may be helpful, with all of mine and they include tb's as well as cobs and natives I have found the best way of keeping on top of their weight is to get the heart rates up regularly by more active work and you can see a difference once they are more active, most people can do an hour or so but very few can do 2 plus every day, WHW may like to think we can but in reality getting them fit slowly then gradually increasing the work is the best way.
Judging by the horses WHW have available for loan I am guessing they rarely get anything fit themselves, in the true sense of fitness, and are basing their advice more on what they think is correct and on veterinary advice with horses in rehab rather than from direct experience, having had numerous fatties through my yard I know how these types look after themselves and that most don't do enough exercise given half a chance but most once fit and genuinely getting some active fun work will get more enthusiastic and slim down but it can be tough going for the owner to get the balance right.
 
I can not find the reference, but I read that a horse uses 95% of its energy to keep warm, so the chances are that unless it is very fine coated or using a lot of energy in exercise for most of the year its eating enough not to lose weight.
In my experience the only time they use a substantial amount of weight is Feb/March when its usually a bit wetter and there is some wind chill. You can actually increase their amount of forage and they will lose weight, provided they are not rugged and you can find them a wind break.
When my NF mare came back off loan with laminitis I counted every calorie and half her ration was soaked barley straw, but it was August, she was on box rest, so over 8 weeks she lost very little. Over the winter I managed to get her down to a more normal weight, with no rugs and hay and out 24/7
It will get worse before it gets better. Livery yards because of pressure of space are housing equine like battery hens in smaller plots and then they are inside for almost 5months of the year, with little exercise. Then when they do go outside they have a 300g duvet on, to shuffle round a half acre patch. I do not think its a case of what exercise but any sort of exercise would be a good thing.
I was fortunate to work with hunter liveries when I left school. All the horses did a an hour and half exercise and hunted most weekends, in the time I was there we never had any lameness or stable vices. When I had my own animals I worked as far as possible to that method and although as a family we have had quite a few animals we have had no injury lameness or stable vices where as people I know seem to have a catalogue of injuries and problems.
 
For the first time ever, we have the opposite problem. M has always dropped a bit of weight over the winter but this winter (or rather spring - it's mostly gone in the last 8 weeks) he's lost a lot more than usual and nearly all off the top half. He's off for a cushings test tonight as, at 22, it's a distinct possibility.

A on the other hand is exactly the same as ever. I've never known a horse keep such a consistent weight all year, no matter what he eats and it's always a pretty perfect weight too. I wish I knew his secret. He's the easiest horse in the world to feed - nothing in the summer and a smallish (considering his size) fibre based feed in winter and he's happy. I dread getting another horse who will actually require managing!
 
My ID’s never loose weight until you get them doing bouts of intense work fatty is walking most days for about an hour it’s making not a jot of difference I am having to do some pretty tough removing of food to try to keep things half under control .
H is doing more intense work and getting more grass and he’s looking better .
Poor Fatty .
 
Goldenstar said:
My ID’s never loose weight until you get them doing bouts of intense work fatty is walking most days for about an hour it’s making not a jot of difference I am having to do some pretty tough removing of food to try to keep things half under control .
H is doing more intense work and getting more grass and he’s looking better .
Poor Fatty .
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Similar here! My boy is never as lean as I'd like, does carry a little bit of extra cover which I find very hard to shift. He's in ok condition though and works 6 days a week so I'm not too fussed about it. He always thinks he's being starved though !
 
It is generally fast work that gets horses lean. Endless plodding (as recommended traditionally) doesn't do enough unless it is on hills or over rough terrain. And horses should sweat and puff a little too.

What passes for "work" nowadays is usually just a little meander for half an hour....
 
With native ponies, I take the amount of food that I think looks right and then give them 1/10 of it :D

this long, cold spring has been great-despite a fairly hard winter and very little supplementary hay (and no feed) they came out a bit too well. in over night in the barn for the last month on soaked hay and muzzled during the day, plus getting them back into work (somewhat inconsistantly granted) has done wonders-the mealie is looking the best he has in a couple of years and the Fell needs some muscle building and a little weight losing (bit like myself!).

I took on an extremely obese Exmoor on years ago. once we got him walking out for 30mins without puffing, I ran with him-we'd do a minute walking and a minute running-worked wonders and we replicated it on the lunge as well.
 
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