Owner badly bitten – advice please!

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happyhorsey

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Hi All,
I would appreciate some advice. I have had a new horse for the past 4 month which is on full livery in a new yard, although I muck out, feed, rug, bring in, etc, as often as I can. But because I work shifts, I need my horse on full livery to ensure its basic needs are met when I work a 12 hour shift and can’t attend.
Tonight however I was very badly bitten, this has never happened before. I believe the reason for this was that my horse was brought in from 6 hours turnout around 3pm and remained without food until the incident at 8:15pm. I was very distressed, plus I put the care of my horse as my top priority, and I’m not a first time owner and have had horses before at different yards, who received a hay net when brought in. Due to work location I had to move yards.
After the incident I enquired at the yard about feed and was told the horse couldn’t have been hungry (despite having no feed since 3pm) and it was my fault for feeding a few carrots each time I visit…
Any comments or advice welcomed with thanks!
 
For me it would be totally unacceptable to bring in & leave without hay for that long & I'd be telling the YO this. However it doesn't justify biting.

I don't hold with the belief that titbits lead to biting, horses aren't idiots & they can be trained.

I wouldn't be at all happy with the yard's stable management, or how it responded, but I'd also be looking to teach my horse better manners.

I hope you're ok.
 
If you're not happy, vote with your feet :).

I was in an American barn system and one particular owner took it upon herself to titbit or hay some horses when she came. When she turned up, all the horses were agitated, some kicking doors because they knew they were going to get fed. The woman was an absolute liability.

I moved my youngster to a different building because I didn't want this woman instilling bad manners/behaviour in her.

My mare can be brought it and stand without a net for a couple of hours, it doesn't cause her to bite me when I arrive and she absolutely lives to eat!!

I would ensure that other liveries aren't titbitting her for starters.
 
If your horse is on full livery ,it should be getting its turnout,hay feed etc as routine if the yard cannot or will not do this they are failing to meet a horses needs. No horse should be left in for that long with no hay,it is not excusing him biting you but it is likely that he is unsettled and grumpy if he has no real routine and is getting hungry.
It is more than likely that he has often gone without hay for long periods of time,without you knowing, if the YO feels that 5 hours is not long enough for him to be hungry.
I would find a better yard and try to get him in as good a routine as possible,even if you are going to ride in the evening he should still have access to a haynet when he comes in and you could refill if required.
 
I wrote out a long explanation but my computer lost it so forgive me if this is rather blunt. Your horse did not bite you badly. You are here on the internet. If he had done, you would be still in a&E. What your horse did do was discipline you for straying from the herd . He is hungry ,angry ,and you wander back. Where the hell have you been ,BITE! Treats are a double edged sword. Your horse probably is better without them.He is also better with ad lib hay.Sorry for your pain but since I also have the scars I felt I should say it as I see it. You have a dominant horse be carefull!
 
I think it is totally unacceptable to leave a horse for that long without forage. However, that's no excuse for the horse biting you. I've left horses for longer (vet's instructions) and not been bitten. Was the horse anxious and stroppy the moment you arrived? What happened just before he bit you? Where did he bite you?
I wouldn't be happy to have my horse on a yard where he was left for that long without food.
Btw, I feed tidbits and NONE of my horses bite, ever.
 
Any yard worth their salt should be putting hay in as a matter of course if they know you will be a long time and as you're on full livery, I would explain that is what you want to happen that when he comes in he gets a leaf of hay to tide him over.
As to the bite, I'm totally with Mike. I hope you walloped him as that is unacceptable behaviour from any horse, I'd be down on him like a ton of bricks no matter what the cause and stop the titbits if they are your apology to him for being late; if you have to give them then make it last thing as you go out the door.
 
I would have thought if your horse was a biter, that after 4 months he would have bitten you before. Hopefully this is a one-off because he was unhappy and probably hungry. I bought a horse who was a pleasant and friendly horse. One day when I was leading her in, she bit me on the forearm, very, very hard. It was painful and I was left with a bad bruise, I have no idea why she did it. She never did it a second time.
 
Our horses have titbits and never bite so I don't follow that titbits lead to biting. However I have met horses that bite and are titbitted regularly so I think it's to do with manners.
I also think its unacceptable for your horse to be left that long without food - horses are the type of feeders (I can't for the life of me think of the word!! Trickle feeders??) that eat little and often throughout the day (they're designed to eat constantly little bits) I'd always prefer mine to have something in their stable - the most they are left without food is an hour or so once they have finished their nets.
K x
 
Youre the customer... Tell them you want him to have a net when he comes in. Also make sure he's still Hayed up last thing too. Pay extra if you have to.
They are bloody rude to blame your titbits. However as others have said, your horse should not have bitten you.
If your yard will not accommodate your request, and are rude again then find somewhere better... I do not think it is good practice to bring a horse from the field and leave it for hours without forage on a regular basis
 
I've been bitten by a bad tempered horse and it hurts like hell. A bucket of water over her head ensured it never happened again........ Mine, like yours was not severe. They look awful though becuase of the brusing.

Your horse doesn't sound as if it's on full livery - and it might well be that that is where the real issue is.

Your horse may not know whether it's comming or going nor the YO who is doing it for you when you can't.

Don't know what to suggest really, other than to ensure lines of communication between you and the YO are 100% clear. And that on the days that you are doing him (so he's not full livery) you still ensure that a full net of hay is put in for your horse for when he's brought in.
 
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As an aside - horses like routine - so if 8.15 is wildley out of routine for yours, then you may have to re-think timings......
 
Firstly, hope that you are not too sore :)

Secondly, I would stop feeding the horse by hand. I don't think in this case it has much to do with the bite but you are better just feeding the carrots in his dinner. There are loads of horses who can be fed by hand and won't bite but I would not take the risk with a horse which has bitten.

Lastly, no I don't think it is ideal to leave a horse without food for that length of time, certainly not as routine, although horses manage pretty well at competitions/endurance rides without food for that length of time :) Talk to the YO and explain you want your horse to be given hay when he comes in, I don't think this is too much to ask!
 
My mare bites when she is stressed or cross - she usually marches over to the nearest equine bottom and takes it out on her hapless victim. But if she is cross with me, she will bite at me. Generally it isn't meant to be damaging and often she is satisfied with just grabbing my clothes but occasionally she goes too far and really means it and I really let her know it isn't on! I think your horse was unhappy because he was hungry and his routine had gone up the spout so it is better to treat the cause and not the symptoms by making sure the YO always provides hay and water if a horse is in its stable, even if it is only in for 15 minutes. If he normally comes in and there is food there, and suddenly there isn't what is he supposed to think?

I always use homeopathic arnica tablets or arnica cream for bruises - best thing there is.
 
Ouch !!!

When talking about biting and how to deal with it - some comments like let him have it, really tell them etc etc - how do you make them know what sort of thing do you do to prevent biting.

many thanks
 
The problem here is that OP you're not sure are you what goes on re. your horse when you're not around? I.e. someone could be coming in and feeding others and not yours and/or tantalising your horse? That may explain why you were bitten.

The other thing is re. carrots (sorry, not sure whether you said you fed carrots or not?) but I was advised by my farrier ages ago that carrots are NOT a good titbit for horses - simply because they contain Beta Carotene; which causes "hyper" behaviour in children. So I'd never, ever, feed carrots!!

Obviously the routine at this yard isn't suiting your horse; or you. And unless this changes PDQ, then you're in danger of your horse developing a nasty, dangerous habit.

Personally I'd look around for somewhere else PDQ. I don't think its fair or reasonable for your horse to be left without food for this length of time; horses can colic through lack of forage and I think the yard should have thrown in some hay for yours.
 
Unacceptable to leave a horse in the day, for that long with no forage. Totally different if it was for medical reasons but otherwise not. Agree with what the others said. Have a clear conversation with the YO so there can be no misunderstandings over the horse being fed.

As for titbits - it really is horses for courses. I feed my old mare treats when I am finished. She looks forward to them and I get reminded when I am going if I forget. Never give her any when I am sorting out just when fnishing. I NEVER give my 5 year old treats as did it once and was thoroughly mugged the next time.
 
happyhorsey said:
Hi All,
I would appreciate some advice. I have had a new horse for the past 4 month which is on full livery in a new yard, although I muck out, feed, rug, bring in, etc, as often as I can. But because I work shifts, I need my horse on full livery to ensure its basic needs are met when I work a 12 hour shift and can’t attend.
Tonight however I was very badly bitten, this has never happened before. I believe the reason for this was that my horse was brought in from 6 hours turnout around 3pm and remained without food until the incident at 8:15pm. I was very distressed, plus I put the care of my horse as my top priority, and I’m not a first time owner and have had horses before at different yards, who received a hay net when brought in. Due to work location I had to move yards.
After the incident I enquired at the yard about feed and was told the horse couldn’t have been hungry (despite having no feed since 3pm) and it was my fault for feeding a few carrots each time I visit…
Any comments or advice welcomed with thanks!
Click to expand...


Sorry but I can't see what being hungry has to do with it.:confused: Even if your horse was starving and hadn't eaten for a week that is not excuse for biting you. A growl, smack or making yourself 'large and intimidating' in true Richard Maxwell style if you are anti smacking is the order of the day but it has to be done at the time.

Don't fall into the trap of making excuses for your horses behaviour. Biting is totally out of order and you must punish your horse next time even if you have been badly bitten or you will just enforce your horses idea that biting is an acceptable form of behaviour.:(

I feed my horse treats all the time, everything from carrots, mints and bananas to dates and apples. He has about half a packet of strong mints a day from me at various times throughout the day. But he knows not to 'mug me' for them, and he never bites in order to get them as he knows what will happen if he does.;) Instead he will play with my hand with his muzzle really softly or try to convince me to part with a mint by giving me a love! So crafty!
 
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Sorry I must be half asleep but I dont understand how this happened.

Full livery means the horse is looked after whether you go down or not. Or at least it receives a basic standard of care, turnout, bring in, muck out and hay. I know some yard do more, but never less than that.

If my horse was on full livery I would expect to be able to not go if something came up at work or home. If your yard is bringing in at 3 and horses are not fed at 8, when would they have fed? It sounds like your horse could have been left without hay all night and that is not full livery, by anyones standards.

I would certainly be complaining to the yard and looking for somewhere else if you dont get the right answers.

Its no excuse for the biting though, I might expect a youngster to get a bit nippy if you feed a lot of treats from your hand but older horses should have manners. That said I wouldn't do it now you have had a problem. Put the carrots in a bucket.
 
Horses are designed to eat for 16 hours a day, not designed to stand in a stable 24/7, while they are accomadating creatures I like mine to have something to chew on if inside, even a simple swede keeps them busy, if not ad lib hay, and as I work 12hr shifts not always poss to get a break, I get tetchy if I don't get fed, but have a word with your YO and sort out some hay to keep your horse occupied, if he continues to bite get tough and don't let him near you, watch his body language and correct when needed, this could be a growl to your voice or a light tap to his nose, but make him do something that shows him you are in charge, backing up when asked or waiting till you hang a haynet, or putting his feed bucket down, you decide when
 
rockysmum said:
Full livery means the horse is looked after whether you go down or not. Or at least it receives a basic standard of care, turnout, bring in, muck out and hay. I know some yard do more, but never less than that.

If my horse was on full livery I would expect to be able to not go if something came up at work or home. If your yard is bringing in at 3 and horses are not fed at 8, when would they have fed? It sounds like your horse could have been left without hay all night and that is not full livery, by anyones standards.
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I agree, I work 2 jobs and for that reason my horse is on full livery, that means that when I get up to the yard all I have to do is ride.
At my yard full livery means, turn out, rug change, muck out, haynets, water, both feeds and a quick brush when she comes in and her feet picked out.
Are you paying for full livery or part livery and if it's part livery could there have been a mis-communication as to who was doing the horse on this particular day?
If your answer is full livery I would be looking for somewhere else as you're being ripped off, you're doing the work most of the time, take a step back from this even when you're not working 12hr shifts, it could be that they are becoming too used to you doing everything.
 
As others have mentioned, your horse shouldn't have been stood in a box that long without food, and you need to address this matter with the YO.

As for you being bitten, I don't agree with this whole blaming the owner rubbish, the horse bit you, and now you have to correct that. Advice would be stop feeding him treats by hand. Make his reward for good behaviour a scratch on the withers or behind his ears.

Secondly, if this behaviour continues, ground work. He has to know his space is your space no matter what, I don't care if that horse hasn't seen food or water for a week, I'm the owner, and I'll be damned if that horse is going to bite me! You don't have to be horrid to him, and make him head shy, but you need a system.
Three step rule works best for me, you go in, and if he presents trouble, vocal commands (which you will have to teach with ground work) then if thats ignored, a good ol' fashioned thwack with a crop on the shoulders generally works. Ask first, then tell, then get bossy. He'll learn quick enough that he shouldn't mess and manners aren't that hard to come by.
 
Having problems with your horse or the YO?

Tidbits need not be a problem. My boy usually gets a few sugar free polos from me (I know, I know) but it never has caused a problem.

Sounds to me like your problem is the YO. In any walk of life you'd give them hell for such poor service and yet YO's seem to get away with it all the time. I think someone else said it...vote with your feet (if you can :confused:)

Regards,

Jane
 
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