Owner refuses loan horse back help

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Fortheheart

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Probably the wrong thread but very long story short I have a loan horse and I’ve tried over 3 times to return her due to life and money changing reasons never actually wanted to return her just felt forced to and only to be told that it’s always a bad timing and the horse can’t return every Single time so I’ve worked through everything loss of job and pregnancy struggled my way through winter almost penniless So now im wondering where I stand if the owner ever does ask for for the horse back to just sell it on way overpriced which is why I could never sadly buy the horse of the owner so wondering with her refusing the horse back so many times if she legally would belong to me or if I can refuse to send her back and with my life back to normal I’d be very upset going through all that going into debt just for the horse to be taken away from me because the owner ( has own yard with plenty empty stables ) didn’t want to take her back at the time knowing fine well my circumstances
 
Do you have a loan agreement in place?

I would say as it is a loan then you have every right to, with notice, give the horse back to the owner. The horse, I would say, does not belong to you, even if they have refused the horse back. It is still their horse.

Are you a member of the BHS as they have a legal team who would be able to answer some of your questions, but I would say I would, in writing, give the owner 1 months notice (send recorded/ special delivery etc.) and then on said date deliver the horse back to owner.

Maybe sending a letter detailing date horse will be given back and stating it is a months notice may make them realise you are serious?

But as I say, probably best to seek some form of legal advice.
 
End the loan in writing. Send the notice to end the loan by registered mail. Inform her that if she does not collect horse or arrange a time for delivery you intend to serve an abandonment notice on the horse. After 4 weeks, serve abandonment notice. She will either collect the horse or the horse becomes yours. Register self as new owner asap. Then you can sell on or keep depending on your circumstances at the time
 
OP I hope you don't mind but I've just made your post a bit clearer as you'll likely get more/better responses. One big block of text is hard to read, especially on small phone screens :). I don't have much helpful advice regarding your situation, could you find the money for an hour with an equestrian specialist solicitor?

ihatework said:
Put a few full stops in and I will try and respond. At the moment it’s hurting my eyes
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Fortheheart said:
Probably the wrong thread but very long story short I have a loan horse. [] I’ve tried over 3 times to return her due to life and money changing reasons, never actually wanted to return her just felt forced to, [and] only to be told that it’s always a bad timing and the horse can’t return.

I’ve worked through everything; loss of job, pregnancy, and struggled my way through winter almost penniless. So now I'm wondering where I stand if the owner ever does ask for for the horse back to just sell it on? [The horse is] way overpriced which is why I could never sadly buy the horse off the owner. [I was] wondering with her refusing the horse back so many times if [the horse] legally would belong to me, or if I can refuse to send her back?

With my life back to normal I’d be very upset going through all that and going into debt just for the horse to be taken away from me because the owner ([who] has [her] own yard with plenty empty stables ) didn’t want to take her back at the time, knowing fine well my circumstances.
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Thanks DF! I Misunderstood the first post. Yes get legal advice but I doubt you have any claim on the horse: You asked to return and were told no. By not pursuing it, it would seem that you accepted the No.
 
DirectorFury said:
OP I hope you don't mind but I've just made your post a bit clearer as you'll likely get more/better responses. One big block of text is hard to read, especially on small phone screens :). I don't have much helpful advice regarding your situation, could you find the money for an hour with an equestrian specialist solicitor?
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Thank you Director Fury. Can now make sense of it.

OP:

Loans have risks and benefits to the loaner. Firstly you get a horse without any initial financial outlay and one that you can send back if your circumstances change. That’s the benefit. The downside is you are paying for a horse that you don’t own and can get taken off you.

So as far as what you have written in your post - you don’t own the horse and no you can’t refuse to give it back if the owner wanted to take it back/sell it. It sucks, but that’s the deal.

If you want to secure the horses future with you then you need to buy the horse (although I’d caution on that front if you aren’t financially stable).

The owner not receiving the horse back is a slightly different issue. Next time, provide your contracted notice and deliver the horse back.
 
So from I’ve read seek legal advise
Ambers Echo said:
Thanks DF! I Misunderstood the first post. Yes get legal advice but I doubt you have any claim on the horse: You asked to return and were told no. By not pursuing it, it would seem that you accepted the No.
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I tried for about 5 months to return her and she point blank refused I really did try apart from driving up and leaving her. As I don’t agree with putting a horse in danger like that.
 
You state the owner has her own yard with empty stables. Give required notice period. Deliver horse back to yard, place in empty stable. No risk to horse there surely?
 
I think she has behaved very badly but it's not about whether you 'deserve' the mare but whether you can legally claim her as abandoned. Speak to a lawyer. But I think you would need to serve an abandonment notice and she would probably then take the horse back when she realises she can't string you along anymore. I am sorry you are in this situation.
 
Squee said:
You state the owner has her own yard with empty stables. Give required notice period. Deliver horse back to yard, place in empty stable. No risk to horse there surely?
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It’s got locks. On gates so would of had to tie her up outside a busy road can’t possibly do that
 
End the loan in writing and inform them as of (date) livery bills will be forwarded to her if the horse has not been collected. If she refuses then the yo has the right to the horse.

ps I’m only half serious. It would be a real dick move toward the yo lol
 
Fortheheart said:
So from I’ve read seek legal advise

I tried for about 5 months to return her and she point blank refused I really did try apart from driving up and leaving her. As I don’t agree with putting a horse in danger like that.
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As the owner has her own yard with spare stables, I really don't see what the danger would have been. Horse is still on loan to you but as above if you still want to return it, give notice as per your contract and if she refuses to take the horse back, serve an abandonment notice.
 
Ambers Echo said:
I think she has behaved very badly but it's not about whether you 'deserve' the mare but whether you can legally claim her as abandoned. Speak to a lawyer. But I think you would need to serve an abandonment notice and she would probably then take the horse back when she realises she can't string you along anymore. I am sorry you are in this situation.
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Thanks you very much I will be seeking legal advice my money situation has completely changed so keeping her is absolutely not an issue anymore and I’ve not heard from the owner since but wanted to ask for advise incase she did. ever show up again as some people advised I should charge her everything the horse cost me from the first time I requested her to take the horse back and she refused to the horse is abundant so I should claim ownership
 
Fortheheart said:
It’s got locks. On gates so would of had to tie her up outside a busy road can’t possibly do that
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Yes you could. Ring her and say your horse is tied to the gate. I’m driving away now.
Obviously after everything else has been exhausted.

I had to threaten to do this with a lease horse that the owner would accept back (it was lame for most of the ten weeks I had it). They just try it on because they rely on you being soft.
 
poiuytrewq said:
So do you now want the horse permanently op?
Have you actually asked the owner if she might just sign it over to you if she’s refusing to take her back?
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Yeah I have . For 5and a half grand she would sign her over to me It’s a bit of doozy she doesn’t want the horse back but keep the ownership without I can get the Money together To buy her which in all fairness the horse isn’t worth it and she knows that I’ve probably spend near enough half her asking cost if not more trying to keep her after she refused to take her back
 
oP.... I would offer whatever you think horse is worth.
Tell owner this is the one and only offer, Or you get the horse back.

See what response that gets for you. You can also add, Livery will be charged at ££££ for every day after the date you requested a return of the horse. Offer £3500. See what occurred from that
 
Fortheheart said:
Yeah I have . For 5and a half grand she would sign her over to me It’s a bit of doozy she doesn’t want the horse back but keep the ownership without I can get the Money together To buy her which in all fairness the horse isn’t worth it and she knows that I’ve probably spend near enough half her asking cost if not more trying to keep her after she refused to take her back
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I'd honestly go down the abandonment route- I'd get legal advice first. Either this will finally kick her into gear in terms of taking the horse back, or the horse would legally become yours.

Even just threatening this as a next step might make the owner get her act together.
 
I suspect if OP pushes owner to a decision that decision will be to have the horse back! Even if the horse is not worth 5.5K it must be worth enough to not just accept a low offer or forget about the horse. So if OP wants to keep her, I'd keep very quiet and hope for the best. But if you need resolution one way or another then end the loan legally and pursue abandonment if she does not collect horse or arrange to be there for delivery. Then you'll either lose or own the horse.
 
Fortheheart said:
Thanks you very much I will be seeking legal advice my money situation has completely changed so keeping her is absolutely not an issue anymore and I’ve not heard from the owner since but wanted to ask for advise incase she did. ever show up again as some people advised I should charge her everything the horse cost me from the first time I requested her to take the horse back and she refused to the horse is abundant so I should claim ownership
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As far as I can work out this is legally meaningless. She is not on livery she is on loan. She is not abandoned, she is on loan. yes the owner is stringing you along but to be fair you have let her. Yhere are legal processes for dealing with this sort of thing.
 
Ambers Echo said:
I suspect if OP pushes owner to a decision that decision will be to have the horse back! Even if the horse is not worth 5.5K it must be worth enough to not just accept a low offer or forget about the horse. So if OP wants to keep her, I'd keep very quiet and hope for the best. But if you need resolution one way or another then end the loan legally and pursue abandonment if she does not collect horse or arrange to be there for delivery. Then you'll either lose or own the horse.
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I do agree with this. Personally, I would not want the uncertainty of the owner potentially being able to come and remove the horse at some point in the future, so would rather have closure either way. I also think not having ownership and a very uninvolved owner could lead to real problems if the horse develops a health issue and needs e.g. surgery or worse case PTS.

It sounds like the OP is now in a position where she could buy her own, so could start afresh without this hassle.

But I do understand if she just wants to keep quiet and keep the horse!
 
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