owner refusing flexion test ??

[Mrsjenks]

i appreciate a lot of people do not agree with the flexion test, however, we have been to have a look at another horse today, rode lovely, lovely in every other way. she said she was happy to have a health check done everything else looked at but said she would not allow a flexion test to be done, as it would not matter because she is not dressage, show jumping and because she is only being sold for 'cheap'. the horse is a 12yo mare tb x id. on contacting our vet, they have told us to walk away as she may be hiding a possible issue with the legs. thoughts on this appreciated : /

 

[AmyMay]

I think it's a tricky one. And as you say people do have differing views on the benefit of a flexion test.

Were you looking to have a 5 stage vetting done?

 

[Mrsjenks]

no just a 2 star, when oh called her she said well she might pass she might fail, its a £1200 horse. alarm bells ringing

 

[AdorableAlice]

i appreciate a lot of people do not agree with the flexion test, however, we have been to have a look at another horse today, rode lovely, lovely in every other way. she said she was happy to have a health check done everything else looked at but said she would not allow a flexion test to be done, as it would not matter because she is not dressage, show jumping and because she is only being sold for 'cheap'. the horse is a 12yo mare tb x id. on contacting our vet, they have told us to walk away as she may be hiding a possible issue with the legs. thoughts on this appreciated : /

Listen to your vet. Cheap or only being used as a happy hacker is not relevant, the horse still needs to be sound.

 

[AmyMay]

Listen to your vet. Cheap or only being used as a happy hacker is not relevant, the horse still needs to be sound.

I tend to agree.

It's interesting though that they'll not allow flexion testing but presumably were quite happy for the horse to be lunged on hard ground.....

 

[Capriole]

I;d walk away too but because of the other things she's said rather than the not wanting a flexion test done on her horse. I know someone who directly contributes a poorly performed flexion test for injuring her horse with the result it was eventually destroyed. Now I wouldn't like to say if she's wrong or she's right, but I know she would absolutely not allow a flexion test on another of her horses be that a cheap £1200 hacker or not.

 

[Mrsjenks]

thank you, that's all I needed to hear. our vet suggested we ask her if she would fund the cost of having the horses legs x-rayed to prove there is is nothing wrong, seeing as she was the one refusing the test- her reply was no, it would have to be our cost, and again repeated that that it was only a £1200 horse. what is really annoying me is that yes, it may only be 'cheap' but why would we take a gamble on my first horse or any horse for that matter the price of the horse should be irrelevant

 

[Mrsjenks]

amymay, I rode her in the school, then took her onto the road (I made sure owner had her on lead rope) the horse had no shoes on. I may be wrong but surely taking a horse onto tarmac where cars are whizzing past at 60mph and lots of stones about could make the horse lame or do some damage??? capriole, that is so sad, as I said I understand some people not agreeing with the test, but surely she could have made more of an effort to prove in another way that the horses legs were sound ? or am I being naïve ?

 

[AmyMay]

amymay, I rode her in the school, then took her onto the road (I made sure owner had her on lead rope) the horse had no shoes on. I may be wrong but surely taking a horse onto tarmac where cars are whizzing past at 60mph and lots of stones about could make the horse lame or do some damage???

Not really -

 

[RachelBristol]

I would walk away. But you could opt for the 15M trot on a hard surface test, that will also show any problems, and a LOT of horses I have tested on this test arent sound!

 

[AdorableAlice]

no just a 2 star, when oh called her she said well she might pass she might fail, its a £1200 horse. alarm bells ringing

Let me reword her comment for you.

Horse is cheap because there is or have been problems. Vendor knows full well it will fail flexi tests, the vendor will not fund the xrays because they will have been already done and the vendor knows full well what they will reveal. Vendor is happy for the purchaser to pay - why not, no financial loss to vendor and when the horse is rejected by purchaser, at great cost to the purchaser, she is confident somebody else will come along and think they have a bargain.

OP, I really hope you find your ideal first horse, this one is not it. You will face various problems with your new horse, we all do, regardless of how experienced we are. Settling a new horse into it's new environment can take a little time, getting to know it etc etc, but at least let yourself get started with a sound horse.

 

[Capriole]

, that is so sad, as I said I understand some people not agreeing with the test, but surely she could have made more of an effort to prove in another way that the horses legs were sound ? or am I being naïve ?

Not at all. There are enough horses for sale out there that you don't need to go into buying one where you have red flags from the start. And that's red flags for any reason you feel is a red flag. Happy hunting, and good luck with finding the right horse for you.

 

[Mrsjenks]

thanks for the advice guys, we've called her and thanked her for the time but said we will not be taking it any further. I already had it in my head that this was a big alarm bell but just needed some extra guidance. thanks again

 

[alainax]

£1200 is not that cheap for a 12yo happy hacker, sounds a reasonable price but certainly not a price you'd think to take a punt on it. Ive had a 5 year old and a 9 year old both flexion tested prior to purchase and both passed with flying colours. If any of those sellers refused id have walked away for sure.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I do have some sympathy with the owner, flexion tests are inconclusive and dependent on many variables. For an experienced vet they are an indicator but the decision to buy or not doesn't rest simply on a failed flexion test.
Your seller could have buted the horse, not rested it before vetting and no one would have known.

The vet obviously would not like an owner to prevent a flexion as he/she vet could be liable if he makes a mistake even though the test is not obligatory in the exam.

As the horse is cheap and not sold as a competition horse, the owner may just not want her animal subjected to the procedure.

However, as a buyer, you need to feel confident about the horse you're considering and if you're worried, walk away.

FWIW my 5 stage vetted horse showed up problems just after I got her home. No vetting is an absolute guarantee, its just a good indication of the horse one day.

 

[Goldenstar]

Listern to the vet look for another horse.
A lame horse is not cheap at any price.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

amymay, I rode her in the school, then took her onto the road (I made sure owner had her on lead rope) the horse had no shoes on. I may be wrong but surely taking a horse onto tarmac where cars are whizzing past at 60mph and lots of stones about could make the horse lame or do some damage???

Very unlikely. TBH I'm surprised that the owner was prepared to sell her horse to someone who feels the need for a lead-rein. Except that I'm not as this seller sounds to be unscrupulous. Please,please wait a while longer to make this all important purchase, you want your first experience of horse-owning to be a good one.

 

[ArabianBeauty]

Walk away. I know two people who bought horses and the seller would not allow vetting ! Guess what ? One has back issue and the other hock problems

 

[Mrsjenks]

TBH I'm surprised that the owner was prepared to sell her horse to someone who feels the need for a lead-rein.

!!! pearlsasinger, I found this quite condacending ! for your information, during my riding lessons I have only ever hacked out on farmtracks etc, the place where I would be taking my horse is surrounded by hills, I would eventually take it onto the road once I knew the horse better, I think I was being quite sensible by asking the owner to have her on a lead rope, 1. because as afore mentioned I have never hacked out on a busy road before, 2. this is a strange horse, and 3. as I have been told a million times already, people will say anything to sell a horse I was told she was great in traffic, so should I have just took her word for gospel and took the horse out on my own and it possibly bolting with me or spooking ?? sorry for airing on the side of caution. also, when I asked her to have horse on lead rope you think she should have said no get off her ? does me asking for this bit of security mean I would not be a good horse owner ? and no-one should sell a horse to a first time buyer that hasn't got years of experience ? every one has got to start somewhere, and I am spending my time looking for the right horse for me, I am a confident rider yet still understand that I am not very experienced and therefore was cautious, this does not make me a bad rider, or mean that I am not ready to own my own horse.

 

[hnmisty]

£1200 isn't cheap if you end up with a cripple.

Yes, flexion tests are mildly controversial...but to refuse to let one be done just looks plain suspicious!

Walking away is the best decision.

 

[Mince Pie]

I'm going to go against the grain here, if the owner was happy with the idea of the horse being lunged on a small circle on hard ground/concrete then I would have gone ahead with the vetting. I also don't agree with flexion tests.
ArabianBeauty, it wasn't the vetting the owner had the issue with, just the flexions I think.

 

[Leo Walker]

I'm just going to point out thats theres next to NO hacking at the yard your going to. A 20min max walk round the "gallops" and thats it. Any other hacking involves going down a very fast rat run completely overshadowed by trees which is incredibly dark in full daylight never mind any other time. I rode it ONCE, never ever again! Or you can ride on the verge of the dual carriageway. I've never done that as to me its suicide! Theres also next to no winter turn out. 2 hours every other day in the winter.

I'm sure there is a horse out there for you, but at the minute people see you coming. I didnt actually know the people the last one belonged to, and I forgot to reply to your PM as I'm in the middle of moving and up to my eyes! I'm sorry, I should have! Trotters and TBs generally dont make good first horses, and I know thats a generalisation! but its worth pointing out What sort of horse are you looking for and what do you want to do with it? I'm sure the collective power of HHO can find some suitable candidates. I"m not the only one local to you

 

[Leo Walker]

£1200 isn't cheap

full stop for this area of the country. £1200 round here buys quite a lot at the minute, especially with winter looming!

 

[Echo Bravo]

Must admit I've only ever had one pony vetted and that was many years ago and she passed but 6 months down the road she became lame and was never sound for the rest of the 20 odd years I had her, the rest of my horses that I've bought over the years I never have bothered having them vetted and they have always stayed sound, except for my old tb but that was old age and arthritis.

 

[Mrsjenks]

thanks for that Frankie, its good to know what the prices are in our area and a heads up on the livery, part of the appeal is the fact its 2 miles from home and we have the Cleveland hills to use.

im looking for that sort of price range, 15.3 to 16.3 horse suitable for a 'novice', to be used for hacking and schoolwork. no tb's but wouldn't mind tb x. preferably 10 to 15yo. does this horse exist ??

 

[hnmisty]

full stop for this area of the country. £1200 round here buys quite a lot at the minute, especially with winter looming!

It certainly isn't cheap for something that is footsore! And especially as prices are low atm. Totally agree- despite the fact I probably overpaid for Barry!

I am glad you decided to walk away, mrsjenks.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Where did it say the horse was footsore? I can't find it.

Anyway... I hope you find your perfect horse soon MrsJ. It would be worth looking for a yard with daily turnout as even the calmest horse can get wound up with no proper turnout and as the horse will be new to you, you wont know whether or not your new horse will cope. Also many people have unshod/barefoot horses that are fine without shoes, including hacking on the roads. I'm in the 'you should only shoe, if the horse needs them' camp.

 

[hnmisty]

Where did it say the horse was footsore? I can't find it

Oops, apologies, got confused with another thread where someone was taking on a horse on loan that is footsore.

I echo faracat's call on turnout. I once had a horse that did it's damn best to dump me on the floor because it had been stabled for 2 days because of poor turnout. Luckily I stuck.

Turnout is probably the one thing I wouldn't compromise on (within reason). That's why I moved to a different yard from the one I'd had my loan pony at when I got Barry. It's not fair to stable a horse for long periods of time because the yard has cr@p turnout, unless your horse is one of those who prefers his stable.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Oops, apologies, got confused with another thread

No problem. At least I wasn't being thick or had forgotten how to read!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

!!! pearlsasinger, I found this quite condacending ! for your information, during my riding lessons I have only ever hacked out on farmtracks etc, the place where I would be taking my horse is surrounded by hills, I would eventually take it onto the road once I knew the horse better, I think I was being quite sensible by asking the owner to have her on a lead rope, 1. because as afore mentioned I have never hacked out on a busy road before, 2. this is a strange horse, and 3. as I have been told a million times already, people will say anything to sell a horse I was told she was great in traffic, so should I have just took her word for gospel and took the horse out on my own and it possibly bolting with me or spooking ?? sorry for airing on the side of caution. also, when I asked her to have horse on lead rope you think she should have said no get off her ? does me asking for this bit of security mean I would not be a good horse owner ? and no-one should sell a horse to a first time buyer that hasn't got years of experience ? every one has got to start somewhere, and I am spending my time looking for the right horse for me, I am a confident rider yet still understand that I am not very experienced and therefore was cautious, this does not make me a bad rider, or mean that I am not ready to own my own horse.

I'm afraid that every post you make shows that you are neither an experienced rider, (confident on a RS horse suitable for someone with 8 months riding experience does not make a good, nor anywhere near good rider), nor ready to own your own horse. You obviously don't want to hear that, so I shall say no more. Neither will I say 'I told you so', when it all goes wrong.