Owner wanting me to buy back pony or going to court!!!

JDee said:
It would be great if you could get some written statements from people who knew the pony before it was sold and would vouch for it being safe and reliable.
Click to expand...

This. I have known of a case where mutual friends of both buyer and seller were called as witnesses for the buyer and gave opinions to a non horsey judge about the original seller doing the ruining, such as by under rugging a heavy traditional cob in summer ridiculously) and not providing a salt block in the winter!
 
ycbm said:
Counter sue for what? You have to have experienced a loss of some kind before you can sue anyone.
Click to expand...

I did sue for wasted time where somebody took action against us that was a total fabrication and got a judgement so it can be done. The courts actually treat vexatious claims very seriously and will punish claimants.
 
Last edited:
Achinghips said:
This. I have known of a case where mutual friends of both buyer and seller were called as witnesses for the buyer and gave opinions to a non horsey judge about the original seller doing the ruining, such as by under rugging a heavy traditional cob in summer ridiculously) and not providing a salt block in the winter!
Click to expand...
Cob types rarely need rugging even in horrid winters let alone summer and not providing a salt block is hardly a welfare issue. I don't provide mine with one as he gets a balanced diet and won't touch it anyway
 
conniegirl said:
Cob types rarely need rugging even in horrid winters let alone summer and not providing a salt block is hardly a welfare issue. I don't provide mine with one as he gets a balanced diet and won't touch it anyway
Click to expand...

BUT... you must remember that the vast majority of judges will know nothing about horses and this "could" sound like practical advice. You have to present your case in a manner in which the court can understand and referencing equine terms/care/knowledge doesn't often help. So if I as a layman, who sees rugs on horses, was told that x hadn't bothered to do this and it was neglect..not knowing about cobs I would believe that.
 
Luci07 said:
BUT... you must remember that the vast majority of judges will know nothing about horses and this "could" sound like practical advice. You have to present your case in a manner in which the court can understand and referencing equine terms/care/knowledge doesn't often help. So if I as a layman, who sees rugs on horses, was told that x hadn't bothered to do this and it was neglect..not knowing about cobs I would believe that.
Click to expand...

but you dont see rugs on cobs in summer? I certainly dont! It would be easy to refute by stating that a rug on a cob in summer is a welfare issue as it is likely to cause the poor horse to overheat and horses die from over heating. Would have made the "expert" look like the fool they were!
 
Achinghips said:
This. I have known of a case where mutual friends of both buyer and seller were called as witnesses for the buyer and gave opinions to a non horsey judge about the original seller doing the ruining, such as by under rugging a heavy traditional cob in summer ridiculously) and not providing a salt block in the winter!
Click to expand...
I don't think that those things would really matter if the buyer did bring them up. What is important here is that the OP can produce reputable evidence that the pony was what she sold it as. We sold a very sensible reliable pony to someone who turned up in the middle of a howling gale to try it and she didn't put a foot wrong but after they bought her they stabled her 24/7 with little exercise and were feeding her up to the ears on all the wrong stuff to get her in 'show condition' where with us she'd lived out most of the time, was fed 'as needed' and ridden quite hard because she was more focused towards jumping and hunting than showing. She actually did behave very badly with the buyer but we had lots of evidence to support that she'd been well behaved at shows and out hunting. As luck happened we had someone wanting a pony like her for their son and they were happy with the references we were able to show them so even though she bucked him off when he viewed her at the home we'd sold her too they still bought her and she soon returned to her 'old self' again
 
JDee said:
I don't think that those things would really matter if the buyer did bring them up. What is important here is that the OP can produce reputable evidence that the pony was what she sold it as. We sold a very sensible reliable pony to someone who turned up in the middle of a howling gale to try it and she didn't put a foot wrong but after they bought her they stabled her 24/7 with little exercise and were feeding her up to the ears on all the wrong stuff to get her in 'show condition' where with us she'd lived out most of the time, was fed 'as needed' and ridden quite hard because she was more focused towards jumping and hunting than showing. She actually did behave very badly with the buyer but we had lots of evidence to support that she'd been well behaved at shows and out hunting. As luck happened we had someone wanting a pony like her for their son and they were happy with the references we were able to show them so even though she bucked him off when he viewed her at the home we'd sold her too they still bought her and she soon returned to her 'old self' again
Click to expand...

Yes I know, I was agreeing with your statement that she needs to have good written evidence herself and or witnesses in case of a non horsey judge being hoodwinked

Conniegirl, we all know you are right, the non horsey judge is the case I illustrated was hoodwinked as he was non horsey, that it the point I was making ..... In this case, there were three witnesses for the buyer saying the same thing and none to back up the seller, so the non horsey judge didn't believe the very logical point you are making
 
Last edited:
I think judges must go on evidence put before them, not their own knowledge and understanding. They will also take advice from experts if required.
In the case I was involved with the judge obviously was not horsey, but asked the right questions.
It does not come down to opinion in the end, but evidence and proof that the seller broke the law in some way.
I reiterate: if the facts the OP gave us, I doubt this will go to court, and if it should by any chance go to the Small Claims Court the same rules of proof and evidence apply.
If the seller can prove the pony was safe and sane before hand, by witness statements correctly prepared and signed, possible photograps, video evidence she must meticulously gather this. OR the buyer must prove otherwise, with evidence.
I know what a horrible position this is to be in. However I don't think the OP should panic until such time as she receives a letter.
I think the number of cases actually succeeding in even coming to court, in this type of situation, is minimal, and usually involves a dealer when it's different law.
OP, having been there, feel free to query me, I'm a bloody expert on that side of the law now.
 
The new owner seems very forceful so I will more than likely get a letter , I have another number contact me yesterday asking if I still have the pony for sale so googled the number as ponies adverts are not online anymore and it's the bloody new owners husband !! Why are they playing games like weirdos? I can't stand the waiting game as I'm a routine person, but I just keep telling myself that the worse thing that can happen is she wins in court and I have to get a loan to pay her back , I've contacted evetyone who's children have rode this pony to please write statements and yard owner is going to too.

Nothing else I can do really but I just keep picturing my sweet little pony being so unhappy and it makes me so angry .
 
He is trying to find out if you have more ponies for sale to try to make out that you are a dealer so they can use the Sale of Goods Act against you. Keep the record of that call, it's harassment.
 
Good advice. When I went to court I was able to prove that I'd sold nine horses in thirty five years. My accountant produced my accounts to prove that I got no income from the sale of horses.
 
ycbm said:
He is trying to find out if you have more ponies for sale to try to make out that you are a dealer so they can use the Sale of Goods Act against you. Keep the record of that call, it's harassment.
Click to expand...
When they came to view her I made it very clear she means the world to me and on the advert I put all loan at my yard so if the pony was as dangerous and behaving that way they are saying she is and I've lied, why the hell would I offer her on full loan at my yard. I said to them to come down on a weekend so they could try her properly as they lived so far away but no they didn't want to wait and came the day I got back off holiday.
 
Mooseontheloose said:
Good advice. When I went to court I was able to prove that I'd sold nine horses in thirty five years. My accountant produced my accounts to prove that I got no income from the sale of horses.
Click to expand...

This is the only pony/horse I've ever sold as before her I was out of riding for 10 years as got married and had a child. The girl who came out of a riding school, don't her first ever so on this pony and came 4th and qualified do sunshine tour and when we went to hickstead she was an angle so surly if the pony was going to mess about and behave badly it would of been when she's in a situation like hickstead.
 
Ballerina said:
When they came to view her I made it very clear she means the world to me and on the advert I put all loan at my yard so if the pony was as dangerous and behaving that way they are saying she is and I've lied, why the hell would I offer her on full loan at my yard. I said to them to come down on a weekend so they could try her properly as they lived so far away but no they didn't want to wait and came the day I got back off holiday.
Click to expand...

You have everything on your side in this, but you need to record it all while it's fresh in your mind, and not just on here. Good luck with this, they are very unreasonable people.
 
ycbm said:
He is trying to find out if you have more ponies for sale to try to make out that you are a dealer so they can use the Sale of Goods Act against you. Keep the record of that call, it's harassment.
Click to expand...

And you know they probably won't go away .
So continue to get organised personally I would buy him straight back if they meet the cost of returning him .
Not because of them but for him .
I would not let a much loved pony I had started be in this bad place if he's as nice as you say you will resell him.
I would also go with a witness to see him .
 
Goldenstar said:
And you know they probably won't go away .
So continue to get organised personally I would buy him straight back if they meet the cost of returning him .
Not because of them but for him .
I would not let a much loved pony I had started be in this bad place if he's as nice as you say you will resell him.
I would also go with a witness to see him .
Click to expand...

GS seller has said she simply doesn't have the money, she's had to spend it on other things. I don't think I'd take out a loan in that situation, myself, (assuming she could even get one) and if her credit card is maxed, what can she do?

I agree they probably aren't going to go away without at least sending some letters from a solicitor :(
 
ycbm said:
GS seller has said she simply doesn't have the money, she's had to spend it on other things. I don't think I'd take out a loan in that situation, myself, (assuming she could even get one) and if her credit card is maxed, what can she do?

I agree they probably aren't going to go away without at least sending some letters from a solicitor :(
Click to expand...
No I can't afford it but the new owner seems that she woulnt even be happy me paying payments to her and would want it in full. Just a waiting game now .
 
Sit tight. Breathe. Get on with your life. A letter from them can be answered quietly, unemotionally and stating the facts. Don't get involved in any other form of negotiation with them.
The first letter will probably be very aggressive and threaten all sorts of things, but as I've said repeatedly, evidence is the only thing that will count in court.
 
Mooseontheloose said:
Sit tight. Breathe. Get on with your life. A letter from them can be answered quietly, unemotionally and stating the facts. Don't get involved in any other form of negotiation with them.
The first letter will probably be very aggressive and threaten all sorts of things, but as I've said repeatedly, evidence is the only thing that will count in court.
Click to expand...

thank u
 
This needn't be taken as an admission of guilt, just concern for the pony. Don't enter into any other communication with them. At least if it gets to court you can prove you were prepared to deal with them. The fact that they've turned down your offer won't look good.
 
I said to them that o didn't have all the money to buy back and they said we'll give me £600 and then she will try and sell the money to make the rest and I said no .
 
Do you have witnesses to back that up? From now on do everything in writing, either letter or email. If you must speak with them take at least one person with you as a witness. You need evidence that you have tried to negotiate with them but they have been uncooperative. Also you need to be able to back everything up.
 
Ballerina said:
I said to them that o didn't have all the money to buy back and they said we'll give me £600 and then she will try and sell the money to make the rest and I said no .
Click to expand...

Progress, sort of! The general consensus of opinion is that you are not in any way compelled, either morally or factually to agree to the rescindment of the contract (the sale). If you enter in to ANY form of 'negotiation' then you're accepting that the buyer may have grounds which would allow them the point of their argument or wishes. All Courts rather than having to decide right from wrong but would prefer negotiation and to reach resolve, a position which you clearly don't want.

Let us imagine that you end up with the pony coming home; have you any idea what you'll be taking back? It would seem, from your previous posts that you were open and honest with the buyer and that you entered in to the sale in an equally honest fashion. Should you take back the pony, then that is an entirely different and unconnected deal. Should you find that the pony has been damaged and is of considerably lesser value than the animal which you sold, will you then attempt to rescind THAT contract? Can you be certain that you won't be buying back damaged goods?

Ballerina, I understand that in your predicament it's your wish to do the right thing, but just about every response on here is that you refuse the demands of the buyer. It seems that despite the well intentioned and mostly well expressed concerns for you, you continue to ignore the advice which you've asked for, and though I've genuinely no intentions of being harsh, the proffered advice, being sound and sensible seems to be falling on deaf ears.

In the modern parlance; The buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on, but it seems that you'd prefer to listen to the buyer than those on here who it seems have reached a near unilateral decision. I'm left wondering why.

Alec.

ps. I'm not having a dig at you, just wishing that you'd listen to those who have no axe to grind! :)
 
Hi , I have been following this thread and I feel so much for you . Is it worth giving a rough idea of where the pony is now . I aappreciate you cant put too much info on here . If it was near one of the members then they may well know the people involved which could give you more information via pm . You still only have their word for it , sounds like they wat to get some money back but then may keep the pony anyway .
 
Alec Swan said:
Progress, sort of! The general consensus of opinion is that you are not in any way compelled, either morally or factually to agree to the rescindment of the contract (the sale). If you enter in to ANY form of 'negotiation' then you're accepting that the buyer may have grounds which would allow them the point of their argument or wishes. All Courts rather than having to decide right from wrong but would prefer negotiation and to reach resolve, a position which you clearly don't want.

Let us imagine that you end up with the pony coming home; have you any idea what you'll be taking back? It would seem, from your previous posts that you were open and honest with the buyer and that you entered in to the sale in an equally honest fashion. Should you take back the pony, then that is an entirely different and unconnected deal. Should you find that the pony has been damaged and is of considerably lesser value than the animal which you sold, will you then attempt to rescind THAT contract? Can you be certain that you won't be buying back damaged goods?

Ballerina, I understand that in your predicament it's your wish to do the right thing, but just about every response on here is that you refuse the demands of the buyer. It seems that despite the well intentioned and mostly well expressed concerns for you, you continue to ignore the advice which you've asked for, and though I've genuinely no intentions of being harsh, the proffered advice, being sound and sensible seems to be falling on deaf ears.

In the modern parlance; The buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on, but it seems that you'd prefer to listen to the buyer than those on here who it seems have reached a near unilateral decision. I'm left wondering why.

Alec.

ps. I'm not having a dig at you, just wishing that you'd listen to those who have no axe to grind! :)
Click to expand...
I'm not listening to the buyer as all what's happened with the buyer has been before I started this thread. I started the thread as I have no clue (do now with all this information) about what can happen in this situation.

I'm answering people back when they've asked questions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top