Ownership legalities - Long story needs a conclusion

Sandylou said:
There's no resolution as yet but advice has been given by a friend who is a policeman. Carer is to offer a small amount to buy the horse and if owner declines the offer she is to say he can have the horse back as soon as he's settled his 9 years worth of bills. If owner reports the horse stolen the carer has been advised that she is lawfully entitled to keep the horse until the bill is paid. Anyone with half a brain won't pay that amount of bills/money for a quirky 20 year old thoroughbred so hopefully that's where it'll end and the owner will finally accept a token payment for the sale of the horse to the carer.
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This advice is utter bunkum, sorry.

Police are taught about criminal law. This is a matter of civil law. Though if the loaner proceeds as advised it could quickly become a criminal offence on her part!

Loaner, sorry but you need to agree a price for the mare with the owner or give her back and call his bluff.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
No, you're not. I totally agree with you.

Sorry abss but you *are* trying to steal a horse/force a sale at a price of your choosing/blackmail(?) horses owner for 9yrs costs.

The horse wasn't abandoned, it was on livery but the owner didn't visit the horse. If he was paying livery and had some arrangement for farrier and vet as necessary, then there was no welfare problem or abandonment. If he wasn't paying that was a matter between him and the YO. If the horse needed food, farrier or vet and he refused to organize it or pay, then YO (or any person) could have involved a welfare agency. Nobody did. The fact the horse wasn't being cared for to your standards was neither here nor there legally, as long as it was in reasonable health/condition with access to water welfare agencies wouldn't act.

You took the horse on loan, your choice. You've been naive in assuming the horses owner would gift her to you if you took over all costs. If you wanted that you or your parents should have asked from the outset, you didn't for whatever reason and that is not the horse owners problem.

If I lend my car to my sister for an unidentified period of time, if she fills it with petrol and carries out repairs, drives it to the other end of the country to go on holiday, that still doesn't make it her car unless I choose to gift it to her.

You've taken a horse that nobody bothered with, gave it love and attention and paid the costs. That was admirable. The way you're behaving now regarding ownership isn't.

I realise most of that isn't what you wanted to hear, but you don't get to post on a public forum and then dictate the types of response you receive.
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Thanks! I was beginning to feel I'd lost the plot reading all these suggestions to the loaner to start making financial demands of the owner or falsely claiming abandonment.

OP I really do hope you manage to get a resolution to this situation but throwing your weight around or making unfounded legal claims will only leave you horseless.
 
Just a thought really if things have broken down with the owner would the YO try to help you get the outcome you want maybe somebody slightly removed will find it easier ,why not ask them?
 
Goldenstar said:
Abss, Make the owner an offer and buy the horse you love .
It's really that simple it's not your horse buy it and make it yours .
It's not fair but that's life .
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I have to agree with this - just buy the horse, you may well pay over market value but at the end of the day the horse is worth most sold to you (because the owner knows there is an emotional connection) than it is on the open market and the owner will know that unless they are an idiot.

Make a cash offer and get a receipt and draw a line under the situation

If you fight this on principle the owner will dig in their heels and you stand a high chance of losing the horse

Move fast before the weather and market improve

This should have been bought up years ago, you are now paying the price for sticking your head in the sand and now you need to face this head on in an adult fashion and without playing games
 
Not sure why but I missed this thread previously!

I have just read the last few pages and get the jist of it.

Legally the Owner gets the say so about what happens to his property. If he wants it back, you will have to give back. No, you can't hold him randsom to the costs you incurred while you willingly loaned his property. As unfair as it seems that's the way it is in this situation. The fact that the property happens to be a horse is irrelevant.

Buy the horse or give it back. What a nightmare though, such a shame it's come to this scenario. Sympathies :(
 
I think I must of missed the part where the "loaner" said she wanted to have the horse for free, just that she wanted to secure ownership?

I must of also missed the bit where she has behaved badly? I can see this is a heartbreaking and stressful situation for you, and you will of course clutch at straws as to how you can win this.

When I read your update re the owner and his demands, I thought to myself "He has seen an opportunity to get some money, and is laying the groundwork by putting the fear of god into you".

If it were me, I'd ask him if he will sell the mare. If he says no, then you have two choices. Give her back and call his bluff (put her on full livery first!) and walk away with fingers crossed he will cave. Or continue loaning the mare.

If he says, and sum is unreasonable - as above.

If he says yes and is reasonable, pay it and move on.

He isn't going to get any money for her elsewhere if she is an aged TB mare, he will push his luck getting peanuts unless a granny can hunt her.
 
I can't see this going anywhere in court. The "agreement" was made with a minor, so not legally binding and the "guardians" were unaware of what was going on so again ,not legally binding. I don't blame the child-now-adult wanting to safeguard the welfare of the horse though, it shows they care and want to do what is right by the animal.
 
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