Paces/Heavy on the forehand?

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rach260

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Been told my cob looks heavy on the forehand in canter and lacks energy in trot, any ideas how I can over come this?
I suspect this is partially due to hi not having the right muscle built up at the moment, he's only been working in a consistent outline for a week or so. So tbh I'm just pleased he's worked out what I'm asking for, but going to show him and would like him going as well as possible. Thankx
 
Lovely looking cob.
But you are right he IS on the forehand - he is also overbent (head behind the vertical) at times in your video.
I'd let go of his head and make him carry himself atm he's riding in a false outline and leaning on your hands. Lots of transitions and changes of direction should help him to develop the right muscles - trotting up hills is also a good muscle developer.
You will need to use lots of leg. It would probably also help if you lift your hands.
 
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Sorry can't quite see but what bit do you have him in? He looks to be a little overbent to be honest and dropping behind the verticle. May be better in a softer bit (personally I like french link snaffles as not keen on the nutcracker action of a jointed snaffle).

Then work on getting him engaging his hind leg by introducing bit of leg yeilding, lots of transitions and 'ice cream cones' in walk etc. Don't worry too much about having him in an outline for now just concentrate on getting him going forward and relaxing through his back.

Also wanted to say lovely lovely boy and great to see someone asking advice and wanting the best for their horse :)
 
It may be the leverage of the pelham is not helping your cause much, my hairy has a Kimblewick for hacking in groups (when I have no brakes) but then a separate snaffle bridle for schooling and hacking alone. Origionally he only had the Kimblewick as he can be very strong but I find it impossible to school in and it does bring him behind the bit badly.

He has become much more responsive and ore and more now I use the snaffle and the kimblewick just gets a once in a blue moon outing.

Perhaps a two bridle option would work for you? :)
 
With the bit he's in a pelham because of showing, I would use a snaffle but he runs straight through them. Already got a selection of bridles lol, got one with a gag for hacking & jumping, one with snaffle for in-hand, and then the pelham.
 
Oh he's LOVELY :)

I would echo the poster who suggested lots of up and down transitions and changes in direction. I have the same problem with my sports horse - he leans. My RI has also got me to slow the trot right down as he was using speed to evade working properly.

Exercises such as shoulder-in on a circle also make them engage the back end, which lightens them up in front. Also small circles with a slight outside bend.
 
rach260 said:
With the bit he's in a pelham because of showing, I would use a snaffle but he runs straight through them. Already got a selection of bridles lol, got one with a gag for hacking & jumping, one with snaffle for in-hand, and then the pelham.
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Bridles are like shoes... they sit in the dark and multiply..I daren't let my husband look in my horse corner in the garage! :D
 
He's never done leg yeilding or shoulder in, so how would I go about teaching that? I've done them but he hasn't, his circles are also dodgy to say the least. I a basically having to completely re-school him. 6 months ago when I got him we didn't have straight lines, halt, trot, canter, outline, circles in any pace, standing still to mount, decent jumping (he used to do head down and charge!)... Now most of that is fine just the circles (in canter), more forward in trot, canter a bit, and outline is a bit off at times. so any advise greatly appreciated.

just to show the contrast this used to be him normal head position!
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc520/rach2601/nope.jpg
like that for walk & trot then in canter stuck out and almost on the floor.
 
lara b said:
Bridles are like shoes... they sit in the dark and multiply..I daren't let my husband look in my horse corner in the garage! :D
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lol yes totally true, I've had him 6 months and so far he's got 4 bridles, 3 saddle, and way to many rugs (at least 20+!!!) and I wonder why I'm broke lol
+ your horse only has a corner of the garage! mine has spread so he's currently got stuff everywhere in the garage, in his tack room on the yard, in the car, and the feed room!
 
Start with getting your circles like, um, circles. My RI says you need to do them often enough until you can actually see the track that you've made. Then gradually increase the inside bend, but keeping the contact with the outside hand so he doesn't just drift into a smaller circle. Also keep your inside leg on to keep his body on the circle, it's just his shoulders you want to start coming in ever so slightly.
He'll find it hard to do at first, so keep the bend very gentle and try it in walk first and don't expect too much too soon.
Here's a nice description online (complete with lovely 'new romantic'-style photo :))
http://www.cheval-haute-ecole.com/indexA30602.html
 
rach260 said:
He's never done leg yeilding or shoulder in, so how would I go about teaching that? I've done them but he hasn't, his circles are also dodgy to say the least.
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I think you really need to get a good instructor to help you here, if you're not sure how to teach him these then I think you will also be a bit uncertain of how to create the correct impulsion, drive and outline etc with him and trying to do it incorrectly is going to cause more harm than good and really only can be taught with the help of a good instructor. The point is that he is not working in a consistent outline as he is overbent and on the forehand and therefore in the incorrect outline. You need leave his neck/head alone, forget about where his head is and focus on getting the drive and impulsion from behind the head and neck will then come naturally onto the vertical. A great exercise for doing this is to do ever-decreasing circles from a 20m down to a 10 or 5m in trot (sitting for the 10m circles). These are tough and will take time to master and perfect and really should be done under supervision but they really work when done right and they are pretty difficult to do absolutely right without help/supervision (i.e. without quarters swinging out etc).

To be kindest to your horse I would really recommend you try to find a classical dressage instructor as they focus on bringing the horse into it's natural rhythm and outline rather than trying to create a false one. I have to say that everyone these days seems to focus on where their horse's head is and it causes soooo many problems!

Loads of good luck, it's a long road ahead (it's taken me 4 months with one of mine recently to crack this as he had been so messed around) but you are not alone and would be surprised by the amount of people who aren't riding in a true correct outline, so a lot of what you see others doing probably isn't necessarily correct and should not be emulated!! :D He looks in great health and very happy I think he will be marvellous if you take the time to make sure everything is done right with him! :D:D:D
 
Hels_Bells said:
. I have to say that everyone these days seems to focus on where their horse's head is and it causes soooo many problems!
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This, exactly. The whole comment really, just long quotations are tedious.

He's a nice horse, lots of potential, good luck with him.

I'm of the opinion that circles and basic movements are sorted first, consistent bend, acceptance of contact, rhythm, etc and basic lateral work all come before "outline". In fact, lateral work is a means to teach a horse to carry itself correctly in an outline, rather than a movement to be performed once the horse's head is held in place. Notice how on the link posted by Flicker it says that one of the purposes of shoulder in is to put a horse "on the bit"? (Not a phrase I like, and possibly a misleading sentiment, but you get the point?) The aspirin of riding indeed :D
 
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