pain from saddle - opinion pls....

[posie_honey]

Hi all

i'm new here and was hoping for a bit of advice as to what saddle fitting problems may be causing pain in my horse...
here's the story: afraid this is a bit long - go grab a coffee to read!

i have been trialling a new saddle (from master saddler and fitted for the trial) for a few weeks and my mare been getting more and more funny about being ridden...

here's the list of symptoms:

- tensing up through back when i first get on for
- swishing tail
- kicking up with her near side hind leg towards her belly
- reluctance to walk down a hill in particular - by showing the above symptoms

these all happen within the first minute to minute and a half at the most - and then she calms right down and has actually been going very well after that (better than before!)

anyway - she did this previously when i first got her a saddle in july last year and it was classed as remembered pain - saddler and back lady were both happy that it was not actual pain. she stopped doing it and rode perfectly in previous saddle until this spring when it got a bit too wide as she'd lost weight (finally!

) and muscle tone - i had to start using a raiser pad on it and also at this point decided i wanted a more forward cut and smaller saddle for me... so saddler was caled out for a new saddle...

saddler thought these current symptoms were remembered pain also... but a few nights ago i decided that i was not happy with it all and that this was not remembered pain and had a prod about her back - she was really tender at the points marked in the pictures below... swishing tail, trying to kick up at her belly (same as ridden kicks) and generally v unhappy - so back lady is booked for next week (soonest she can come out) and i'm obviously not riding

saddler now agrees there is something else going on there... she suspects that she has tweeked something in her back in the field... no prizes for guessing what i suspect it is....

here are the pics with the red circle marking her tender points..... the near side is more tender - it is also her slightly higher shoulder and stronger side - i'm working on evening her out.

sorry they are not great but these are my most recent pictures of her condition etc - taken last thurs

a bit more info for you = old saddle was a wide jeffries falcon alder VSD and she was v happy in it.... got a bit girthy once it got too low but raiser pad srorted that

trial saddle was a ideal grandee 17.5" with flair - again in wide fitting.... i really liked this saddle... horse obviously does not!

here is is on her: sorry not great pic again as it was not taken to show saddle - was just taken as i like taking pics of her! i can't get more saddle pics now as have sent this saddle back and wont be trying it again!

i also trialled a black country wexford - another jumping saddle - this time in MW with flocking - had it 2 days - horse HATED that saddle and had me off for the first time!

so what do you think is causing this pain?

too narrow a tree?
too wide a tree?
points of tree wrong for her shoulder?

something else entirly?!

any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

thank you in advance

 

[Lobelia_Overhill]

Call me an old fart, but in my day kicking at the belly was a sign that the horse had stomach ache or something of that ilk ...

Sorry can't offer anything more helpful! Hope you get it sorted out soon, nice looking horse!

 

[spaniel]

Your saddle doesnt fit. I think thats what it boils down to. Have both the trial saddles been supplied and fitted by the same saddler? If so I suspect that just because he is a member of a master saddlers assoc it doesnt necessarily mean he is any good. (Sorry but if you check out how you get on the list even I could do it).

Probably too wide and the photo makes it look far too flat and low. I know Im used to SC saddles whcih sit up a bit more but to me the saddle in the picture looks way too low and flat from front to back.

I would suggest a new saddler.

 

[posie_honey]

[ QUOTE ]
Call me an old fart, but in my day kicking at the belly was a sign that the horse had stomach ache or something of that ilk ...

Sorry can't offer anything more helpful! Hope you get it sorted out soon, nice looking horse!

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you - she's an ISH registered hunter - done nothing but hunted (neither have i

) but i plan to do lots more with her once she's sorted - she's my life - i hate seeing her uncomfortabe

i think the kicking up at her tummy is more to show annoyance/uncomfortable... she is a very opinionated mare

 

[posie_honey]

[ QUOTE ]
Your saddle doesnt fit. I think thats what it boils down to. Have both the trial saddles been supplied and fitted by the same saddler? If so I suspect that just because he is a member of a master saddlers assoc it doesnt necessarily mean he is any good. (Sorry but if you check out how you get on the list even I could do it).

Probably too wide and the photo makes it look far too flat and low. I know Im used to SC saddles whcih sit up a bit more but to me the saddle in the picture looks way too low and flat from front to back.

I would suggest a new saddler.

[/ QUOTE ]

yup - had kinda worked out saddle didn't fit!

both fitted by the same saddler... prob is it seems like a good saddler in scotland is like a flying pig and current saddler seems the best of the worst who covers my area

i hope to gain knowledge from this thread so that i can go back to saddler with a more educated opinion

barnsby do come up and fit made to measure though.... that may be my only option...

 

[china]

can the saddler not flock it where needed to make it fit, most horses need some sort of flocking in their saddles as they are all different shapes,
as the tender point are quite high up i would guese that its too narrow and the pressure is causing the pain there, you saddler should be able to add and remove flocking to make it fit.

 

[Hippona]

personal opinion...are you sure the saddle is giving enough clearance over the withers/spine with you on it?

Also...your red circles are roughly where the points of a saddle are....perhaps they are digging in a bit?

AlthoughI am in Yorkshire, I just bought a saddle made by these guys...its gorgeous and fits a treat after my recent saddle traumas, so I know where your coming from..... mine is the Working Hunter saddle..

http://www.stirlingshire-saddlery.co.uk/saddles.html

perhaps they would be able to come out to you? 9sorry, you may be millions of miles from them??!)

 

[beaconhorse]

the pic with the saddle on looks like it is tilting slightly back, this is probably then rocking when your riding.

personally I would get a different saddler

 

[posie_honey]

here's a pic of the old VSD for comparrision (the one she liked - also fitted by same saddler) - sorry for angle - not the best to see it but the only one i have of her saddled without an exersise rug on! this was ner at her leanest and there's a prolite front raiser under this saddle cloth

 

[1275gta]

I had a similar problem and have ended up with an Ideal 1350, the saddler that fitted it told me it has a diffrent shape tree inbetween a standard one and a H and C. This has done the trick for me.

As for the soreness have you had back checked as it could be the withers need tweeking.

 

[CBAnglo]

It does look a bit too wide in front but hard to see from the pics - it just doesnt look balanced. when going downhill do you notice the saddle slipping?

Also, the panels are more close contact than the old saddle, so this will affect the fit, as well as the saddle being flair (assume old one was flocked).

Have you tried a flocked Ideal? Barnsby are also really good saddles if you choose to get another saddler.

 

[posie_honey]

[ QUOTE ]
I had a similar problem and have ended up with an Ideal 1350, the saddler that fitted it told me it has a diffrent shape tree inbetween a standard one and a H and C. This has done the trick for me.

As for the soreness have you had back checked as it could be the withers need tweeking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have a look at that one thanks

back was checked and all ok in beginning of march - she has 3month maintainence checks due to coming to me with a bad back in the first instance due to a bad fitting saddle (surprise surprise!) and was fine the last two times = she was due in beginning of june - i've changed appointment to next week to have her fully checked over again

 

[Donkeymad]

The saddle you have just trialled is too narrow, as can be seen by the fact it is sitting far too high at the front.

 

[MrsMozart]

I know I harp on, but try Bridlepath International

. They are based near Cambridge, but travel the country, 'though I don't know if they'll go to Scotland

http://www.bridlepathinternational.co.uk/

Emailing is more effective than phoning, or so I've found

 

[Pearlsasinger]

[ QUOTE ]
The saddle you have just trialled is too narrow, as can be seen by the fact it is sitting far too high at the front.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agree with this. I was surprised to see that some people thought the saddle was sitting too low.

The points must be pinching at the places marked in your photos. I also think that the saddle sits slightly too far back on the horse and so is possibly behind the last rib and hurting/ causing discomfort there as well.
The answer is definitely to get a different saddle fitted by a different saddle fitter.

 

[posie_honey]

thanks for replys guys - given me lots to think about anyway!
i've contact bridlepath international - friend down near them swears by them too

so will see what they say...
i've also contacted jeffries who are being v helpful