Panorama-It shouldnt happen at a Vets...

I was watching, and I want to be a vet, but if while I was doing work experience (later this summer) and I saw something like what I just saw, I would not stand about, letting it happen, and wouldn't be laughing about.

Thought it was rich that the vet student who was playing with the nearly asleep cat was like, "If this was my cat I'd be fuming", yet still went ahead and did it? Needless to say, I'm suprised some of those people are vets, seeing as they clearly don't care for the animals >:(
 
Murphy88 said:
Agree with Jack9. Sandy basically said at one point that he agreed with Jeremy Vine, but he will have been very strictly bound by RCVS on what he could say, which I think came through in the interview. (We liverpool vet students get very protective of Sandy Trees, he is a legend!)
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Then hopefully out of this will come not only guidelines but laws. I still say the RCVS played a politicians card. At least he could have said show me the evidence and we will act. When asked if they could do anything he avoided the question.

Also the student nurses must surely know what they can an can't do. So they need the back up from the RCVS so they don't lose their jobs if they stand up and say I'm not allowed to do this??
 
Didnt watch the programme, but I question every single penny on our vets bills. AND its all on insurance! I do go through it with a fine tooth comb.

However bad you think that story is about them refusing to let you leave without the bill being paid, when my pup was in for 5 days, really serious op, they rang me at about 7 and said you could come get her, I legged it out the house without anything on me! Got there, and they refused to let me take her until I'd paid the excess. Thankfully my OHs mum was there and paid it on her card and I paid her back.

But we're now in a battle with them because they want you to pay the WHOLE balance of the claim even if its an insurance claim.......if its less than £5000. Where EXACTLY am I going to find £4999 from at the drop of a hat? THATS WHY IM INSURED! Told them in no uncertain terms I was not paying that and that I would leave the practice if they enforced it. Particularly as I'm with NFU and they ALWAYS pay up SO quick.
 
I watched it with my heart in my mouth. My beautiful labrador has been at a vet referral centre since Wed for cancer surgey and investigation.

I am confident that she would not have beem treated by inexperienced vets. That's why we chose to send her to possibly the best Oncology surgery specialist in UK (luckily also our nearest referral centre!)

My everyday day vet warned me about Medivet when they opened up fairly locally.
 
Im absolutely appalled at how they run the branches viewed. Trainee nurses should not be doing anything a qualified and registered nurse does unless registered under the RCVS as a trainee/student and even then under the supervision of a qualified member of staff. Those trainees were decieptful, unprofessional and had showed a total lack of care.

Total rip off merchants. I'm glad that my practice is qualified and registered nurses only and our head nurse being the president of the British Veterinary Nursing Association we follow the guidlelines properly and give top quality care. x
 
Is anyone else shocked and disgusted that Medivets gets their blood from a greyhound rescue free of charge in exchange for free food/occasional worming etc? I'm in support of pets donating blood for a good cause if their owners agree to it but there's something wrong with taking blood from rescue dogs who have no owners to look out for them at that time...maybe it's just me :confused:
 
flamehead said:
Didnt watch the programme, but I question every single penny on our vets bills. AND its all on insurance! I do go through it with a fine tooth comb.

However bad you think that story is about them refusing to let you leave without the bill being paid, when my pup was in for 5 days, really serious op, they rang me at about 7 and said you could come get her, I legged it out the house without anything on me! Got there, and they refused to let me take her until I'd paid the excess. Thankfully my OHs mum was there and paid it on her card and I paid her back.

But we're now in a battle with them because they want you to pay the WHOLE balance of the claim even if its an insurance claim.......if its less than £5000. Where EXACTLY am I going to find £4999 from at the drop of a hat? THATS WHY IM INSURED! Told them in no uncertain terms I was not paying that and that I would leave the practice if they enforced it. Particularly as I'm with NFU and they ALWAYS pay up SO quick.
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If you went to ASDA shopping would you walk out without paying for your shopping or expect ASDA to wait a few days for you to pay?
 
anadain said:
Would tell you to go elsewhere and not to bother coming back!
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If it was your child in a private hospital and they told you to get the money or they refused to release your child would you be happy? Or would you rather the child suffered in pain until you stumped up before they would admit the child?

Say what you like but some of us consider our pets as our kids and don't take well to being bullied.
 
Ella19 said:
Absolutely disgraceful of your vet to treat you this way. In my last practice we would often with hold (non urgent) medication until the next day when the owner could pay but it is actually illegal in the eyes of the RVC to with hold an animal from the owner. They can't keep your dog because you haven't paid, they can withold medicine and refuse to treat further (unless emergency treatment) until you pay but they can not by law keep your dog.
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This happened to a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago, his pup was kept in for a week, they thought it was parvo but wasnt. When he went in the vet said the bill was £500. when he said could he pay £100 then and the rest the following week, he was told to pay then or they would put the dog to sleep.
 
jasmine said:
This happened to a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago, his pup was kept in for a week, they thought it was parvo but wasnt. When he went in the vet said the bill was £500. when he said could he pay £100 then and the rest the following week, he was told to pay then or they would put the dog to sleep.
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Was this at a Medivet?:eek:
 
jasmine said:
No it wasnt :(
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That is my point on the other thread about this subject it's not just Medivet. This sort of thing happens at other vets to :( It shouldn't happen anywhere but it doesn't happen at ALL medivet branches some are well run and have very careing staff.
 
This link just takes you to the key page. It's cached and other page links on that page don't seem to work. The links within that page to letters and the video work though and are downloadable.

I'm glad I've never used them. Even fifteen years or so ago I heard they were very expensive. They were ahead of the game in becoming a 'corporate' vet. It's become more common now though.
 
anadain said:
If you went to ASDA shopping would you walk out without paying for your shopping or expect ASDA to wait a few days for you to pay?
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It's a LIVING BREATHING animal NOT a sack of potatoes!

Personally (I don't know about the other posters) I had held my account for years. I have 10 animals, and I'm a typical paranoid pet owner, one sniffle and my pets are at the vets.
They KNEW me. They treated my ponies, my cats, my dogs...

They tried to with hold my 12 week old puppy, AFTER it had been made blatantly clear that if I hadn't insisted on coming to visit her they would have screwed a few days extra money out of me. They humiliated me in front of other clients.


I also expect my animals to be cared for by people wearing correct clothing (ie aprons to prevent the spread of disease), and God forbid, shoes and socks....
 
I do wonder that the girl worked there for 9 months and this was all the "abuse" that she saw? The setter was restrained incorrectly, he should have been held from the other side with no pressure on his throat although I doubt very much that the rather inept way he was being held would have damaged him in any way. He was obviously stressed at being there anyway, I really don't think he would have settled for the canula to be placed. When you are a student nurse you get taught to place iv lines, give i-m and sub-q injections, thoroughly clean a surgery and then once you are ok with that you are told to do it (there are always vets and qualified nurses around but they are often busy with more important procedures), if you are unable or unwilling to carry on you simply tell your supervisor.

How else is a trainee meant to learn to do the procedures? From a book? In an exam on a cuddly toy?

The shar pei and some of the cat scruffing looked unpleasant I must say and although there is no excuse for using violence on an animal, you don't know the background. What I mean is, the damage that an upset/angry cat/dog can and WILL do to someone has to be seen to be believed.

Also- an unqualified person administering anaesthetic? Happens all the time, the animals are checked over prior, weighed and should have a pre-ga blood test to ensure that they are working correctly. The correct dosage is worked out and a "safe as you can get" anaesthetic is used. It really does not matter who gives the injection as long as they know what they are doing (ie, not your local binman or cat breeder). Does anyone think the vets were upstairs having a coffee break when this was going on?

As you can probably tell, it made me rather cross.
 
Farrierlover said:
I do wonder that the girl worked there for 9 months and this was all the "abuse" that she saw? The setter was restrained incorrectly, he should have been held from the other side with no pressure on his throat although I doubt very much that the rather inept way he was being held would have damaged him in any way. He was obviously stressed at being there anyway, I really don't think he would have settled for the canula to be placed. When you are a student nurse you get taught to place iv lines, give i-m and sub-q injections, thoroughly clean a surgery and then once you are ok with that you are told to do it (there are always vets and qualified nurses around but they are often busy with more important procedures), if you are unable or unwilling to carry on you simply tell your supervisor.

How else is a trainee meant to learn to do the procedures? From a book? In an exam on a cuddly toy?

The shar pei and some of the cat scruffing looked unpleasant I must say and although there is no excuse for using violence on an animal, you don't know the background. What I mean is, the damage that an upset/angry cat/dog can and WILL do to someone has to be seen to be believed.

Also- an unqualified person administering anaesthetic? Happens all the time, the animals are checked over prior, weighed and should have a pre-ga blood test to ensure that they are working correctly. The correct dosage is worked out and a "safe as you can get" anaesthetic is used. It really does not matter who gives the injection as long as they know what they are doing (ie, not your local binman or cat breeder). Does anyone think the vets were upstairs having a coffee break when this was going on?

As you can probably tell, it made me rather cross.
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Well said. :)
 
Farrierlover said:
I do wonder that the girl worked there for 9 months and this was all the "abuse" that she saw? The setter was restrained incorrectly, he should have been held from the other side with no pressure on his throat although I doubt very much that the rather inept way he was being held would have damaged him in any way. He was obviously stressed at being there anyway, I really don't think he would have settled for the canula to be placed. When you are a student nurse you get taught to place iv lines, give i-m and sub-q injections, thoroughly clean a surgery and then once you are ok with that you are told to do it (there are always vets and qualified nurses around but they are often busy with more important procedures), if you are unable or unwilling to carry on you simply tell your supervisor.

How else is a trainee meant to learn to do the procedures? From a book? In an exam on a cuddly toy?
Under guideance of a fully qulified vet perhaps during a quieter day?
The shar pei and some of the cat scruffing looked unpleasant I must say and although there is no excuse for using violence on an animal, you don't know the background. What I mean is, the damage that an upset/angry cat/dog can and WILL do to someone has to be seen to be believed.
I can fully see that, but no matter what the background, no animal should be struck about the head.
Also- an unqualified person administering anaesthetic? Happens all the time, the animals are checked over prior, weighed and should have a pre-ga blood test to ensure that they are working correctly. The correct dosage is worked out and a "safe as you can get" anaesthetic is used. It really does not matter who gives the injection as long as they know what they are doing (ie, not your local binman or cat breeder). Does anyone think the vets were upstairs having a coffee break when this was going on?
would you be happy for the care assistant to administer your anaesthetic in hospital? No offence to these trainee nurses, but on a qualification basis, that's all they are. The same qualification level as people who are paid to wash patients bottoms.


As you can probably tell, it made me rather cross.
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me too! And the vets excuses would have been laughable were it not such a terrible subject
 
itsme123 said:
me too! And the vets excuses would have been laughable were it not such a terrible subject
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Oops, can't get your other quotes..

The trainee was capable of doing the procedure, she had been taught by a qualified person and was then (foolishly really) trying to teach the "mole" how to do it on a stressed and badly restrained dog- this is not an ideal situation, my point is that you have to learn by doing it and cannot say that unqualified people cannot attempt a procedure or it would never be learnt.

Striking the animal was unacceptable and I agree with you, my point was that if anyone appears to be rougher than you would like you need to look at the background- a dog once bit my Vet on the face while being examined as he was not restrained, the dog was then pinned to the table to be sedated as we were NOT going to risk it happening again. I have slapped my own dog when she tried to attack another dog and if a dog tried to bite my face off I would also slap it (not saying this was the case- it clearly was not).

I would be happy for a trained (not necessarily qualified) operative to administer an anaesthetic when there are qualified people in the vicinity and the correct dosage has already been worked out, yes. I don't see that it matters who is doing it as long as they don't blow my vein (like some doctors have done) and since vet nurses (qualified or unqualified) usually have more practice and ability in these matters, I would PREFER a nurse to do this.
 
Farrierlover said:
How else is a trainee meant to learn to do the procedures? From a book? In an exam on a cuddly toy?
I think nurses first practice on oranges I know my OH did when he was training to give pethidine!!!

But if your up for it Farrierlover I wouldn't mind having a go at say taking your blood. I've never done it before but you could be my first try:D:D:D:p
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Godknows said:
Farrierlover said:
How else is a trainee meant to learn to do the procedures? From a book? In an exam on a cuddly toy?
I think nurses first practice on oranges I know my OH did when he was training to give pethidine!!!

But if your up for it Farrierlover I wouldn't mind having a go at say taking your blood. I've never done it before but you could be my first try:D:D:D:p
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Haha, fair enough, although it'll be easy- you won't need to restrain me and I'll show you where the vein is!

You can practice intra muscular injections on oranges but they don't have veins :(
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Farrierlover said:
Godknows said:
Farrierlover said:
How else is a trainee meant to learn to do the procedures? From a book? In an exam on a cuddly toy?

Haha, fair enough, although it'll be easy- you won't need to restrain me and I'll show you where the vein is!

You can practice intra muscular injections on oranges but they don't have veins :(
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Nooo YOU can't show me the vein you'll just be Joe public:p I'll just keep jabbing till I find the vein it won't take long about 1/2 hour I think they tried for Oh and I'll put a lead around your neck and someone will hold you in a neck hold:p:D;) and don't bark or I'll smack you on the head:(
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The reason it took so long for that poor dog was because nobody was restraining him properly! Most dogs will not stand still for someone to stick a needle in their vein and unfortunately, they need to be held completely still. I'm guessing (because it was hard to see) that the dog may have been stuck once or twice maximum with the needle over that time (if that) as most of the problems they were having were because the dog wouldn't stand still and there is nobody who would just randomly jab a dog with a needle.

The frozen picture they used of the hand on the dog's throat was a little inappropriate as it did not happen for very long- the dog was not restrained by the lead. The correct way to contol a dog is an arm around the neck with your elbow at the throat so that you allow them room to breath (obviously, as that can be useful).

Also, animals have to be still when you're performing certain things but they are scared and stressed while at the vets so they have to be restrained and cannot be informed that what you are doing is for their own good. They have to be held tight and tighter if they struggle so that you do not damage the vein/throat/ear (whatever you are dealing with). This program showed one occasion of a stressed dog being incorrectly restrained which led to problems with a vein. I do not think that this is anything to do with trainees being allowed to perform procedures, their restraint training just needs improving.

Oh, and I'll reiterate two things- that was all she saw in 9 months AND yes, he should not have hit that dog. It is difficult to restrain an angry, muzzled shar pei but not impossible.
 
Farrierlover said:
The reason it took so long for that poor dog was because nobody was restraining him properly! Most dogs will not stand still for someone to stick a needle in their vein and unfortunately, they need to be held completely still. I'm guessing (because it was hard to see) that the dog may have been stuck once or twice maximum with the needle over that time (if that) as most of the problems they were having were because the dog wouldn't stand still and there is nobody who would just randomly jab a dog with a needle.

The frozen picture they used of the hand on the dog's throat was a little inappropriate as it did not happen for very long- the dog was not restrained by the lead. The correct way to contol a dog is an arm around the neck with your elbow at the throat so that you allow them room to breath (obviously, as that can be useful).

Also, animals have to be still when you're performing certain things but they are scared and stressed while at the vets so they have to be restrained and cannot be informed that what you are doing is for their own good. They have to be held tight and tighter if they struggle so that you do not damage the vein/throat/ear (whatever you are dealing with). This program showed one occasion of a stressed dog being incorrectly restrained which led to problems with a vein. I do not think that this is anything to do with trainees being allowed to perform procedures, their restraint training just needs improving.

Oh, and I'll reiterate two things- that was all she saw in 9 months AND yes, he should not have hit that dog. It is difficult to restrain an angry, muzzled shar pei but not impossible.
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Now, I've handled animals for many many years, and I DO agree with what you're saying. It is not easy to handle a frightened / aggressive animal, and treatment is paramount in these circumstances, getting the job done quickly and with as least stress as possible. Worming a cat, for instance, can (in my household :o) involve a thick towel, cat pinned on it's back between knees, and mouth held shut whilst throat rubbed to make sure the wormer has gone down. Job done, snatch of chicken and one peeved off cat later...
However, I do it myself, as if someone else did that to my cats - God help them. It looks harsh, but it's a means to an end.
I also once had a pony who could smell a wormer a mile off. The only way of doing it was getting a strong man to headlock it whilst the wormer was put in. It would be over in minutes and better that than worm damage.
I did not feel that the handling of the Red Setter was unjustified. I just felt that if the nurses were faffing too much (inexperience) then someone more experienced should have been called over at the first hint of fear, and taken over. The incident went on for too long IMO. Being short staffed is little excuse, we're not talking about an NHS hospital ward with limited funds / staff. We're talking a money making company with access to qualified and experienced staff.

I don't think the programme showed as much 'shock factor' as the hype would have us believe. Many things were just 'silly' errors, and over charging.

I did however get quite upset about the treatment of the cats, especially the semi anaesthetised one. That, to me, was just total disrespect for a frightened animal and a paying customer.
 
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