endymion
Well-Known Member
.......and the rest of these papers Nigel? There are rather a lot.
And can you show me fox ecology studies that support hunting????
And can you show me fox ecology studies that support hunting????
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papers and stuff....
- Thread starter endymion
- Start date
wurzel
Well-Known Member
Where do you think the deer live Endy?
Not easy to shoot them at the start eh Endy?
Not easy to shoot them at the start eh Endy?
endymion
Well-Known Member
Please, please, please....someone. anyone, if Harris is biased can you please show me papers that support hunting!!!!
endymion
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that it doesn't take hours to corner them. And not all deer live in bloody forests. Shooting as a method of deer control is practised succesfully all over the country.
endymion
Well-Known Member
Can you elaborate and tell me what you think is cruel and what isn't.
wurzel
Well-Known Member
We don't write papers Endy.
We live the life.
I am watching the rain come across Exmoor right now.
We grow the grass and produce the lambs.
We kill the Foxes and Deer to ensure there are not to many.
You have "papers" Endy... can you show me papers monitoring the numbers and quality of the red deer herd on Exmoor over the past 3 centuries?
I know it. But I didn't write about it at university.
We live the life.
I am watching the rain come across Exmoor right now.
We grow the grass and produce the lambs.
We kill the Foxes and Deer to ensure there are not to many.
You have "papers" Endy... can you show me papers monitoring the numbers and quality of the red deer herd on Exmoor over the past 3 centuries?
I know it. But I didn't write about it at university.
endymion
Well-Known Member
Right so there are none then?
You may have your doubts about my credantials Faggus, but there are many good scientists that have been brought up and work in the countryside. Surely, one of them seeing the great injustice being done to you good people would take it upon himself to set the record straight and show that foxes are best controlled by the use of hounds?
Do you ever entertain the thought that it's cultural conditioning?
And as for your exmoor deer monitoring programme, maybe you should write it down, then at least someone might believe you!
You may have your doubts about my credantials Faggus, but there are many good scientists that have been brought up and work in the countryside. Surely, one of them seeing the great injustice being done to you good people would take it upon himself to set the record straight and show that foxes are best controlled by the use of hounds?
Do you ever entertain the thought that it's cultural conditioning?
And as for your exmoor deer monitoring programme, maybe you should write it down, then at least someone might believe you!
wurzel
Well-Known Member
Corner them?
Nobody corners them Endy !!!
Are you guessing?
"And not all deer live in bloody forests."
Where do they live on Exmoor Endy?
"Shooting as a method of deer control is practised succesfully all over the country."
Is it?
And they know better than us do they Endy?
Nobody corners them Endy !!!
Are you guessing?
"And not all deer live in bloody forests."
Where do they live on Exmoor Endy?
"Shooting as a method of deer control is practised succesfully all over the country."
Is it?
And they know better than us do they Endy?
endymion
Well-Known Member
Tom as I have said my knowledge of stag hunting is limited. I presumed the idea of chasing the stag was to flush it from cover, then chase it to tire it out making it easier to shoot.
Stalking and shooting is a very successful method of deer control. Although in many places the deer were put there with the intention of shooting for sport, then we are told they need to be shot because they are pests, :crazy
Stalking and shooting is a very successful method of deer control. Although in many places the deer were put there with the intention of shooting for sport, then we are told they need to be shot because they are pests, :crazy
wurzel
Well-Known Member
"Right so there are none then?"
Did I say that? Please remind me.
I am a farmer not a librarian.
"You may have your doubts about my credantials Faggus, but there are many good scientists that have been brought up and work in the countryside."
Doubt your credentials? I don't think you know one thing about the subject of hunting. And yes, I am sure there are good scientists who were brought up in the countryside. I hunt with a couple of them.
"Surely, one of them seeing the great injustice being done to you good people would take it upon himself to set the record straight and show that foxes are best controlled by the use of hounds?"
I feel no injustice Endy. If a scientist thinks it is best to control Foxes by hunting I am sure they will say. Stephen Harris wants them all snared. That is up to him.
"Do you ever entertain the thought that it's cultural conditioning?"
What does that mean?
"And as for your exmoor deer monitoring programme, maybe you should write it down, then at least someone might believe you! "
It has been done Endy. By cleverer folk than me. Exmoor National Park and the Exmoor Deer society.
Biased of course. Towards preserving the deer !!!
Did I say that? Please remind me.
I am a farmer not a librarian.
"You may have your doubts about my credantials Faggus, but there are many good scientists that have been brought up and work in the countryside."
Doubt your credentials? I don't think you know one thing about the subject of hunting. And yes, I am sure there are good scientists who were brought up in the countryside. I hunt with a couple of them.
"Surely, one of them seeing the great injustice being done to you good people would take it upon himself to set the record straight and show that foxes are best controlled by the use of hounds?"
I feel no injustice Endy. If a scientist thinks it is best to control Foxes by hunting I am sure they will say. Stephen Harris wants them all snared. That is up to him.
"Do you ever entertain the thought that it's cultural conditioning?"
What does that mean?
"And as for your exmoor deer monitoring programme, maybe you should write it down, then at least someone might believe you! "
It has been done Endy. By cleverer folk than me. Exmoor National Park and the Exmoor Deer society.
Biased of course. Towards preserving the deer !!!
endymion
Well-Known Member
But why dont these scientists do something to preserve their 'sport' ? They just stand by and let Harris brainwash us all do they?
Cultural conditioning is this instance basically refers to possibility that the hunting society believes hunting is vital and neccessary not as a result of study and thought but as a result of what they and their parents (ancestors) have believed, unquestioned, for many years before.
Its like the problems we are having at the moment trying to convince some farmers to switch from pesticides to biocontrols. Its about changing longheld opinions.
Anyway, listen I have to go or I'll be at this all day with you. Later...
Cultural conditioning is this instance basically refers to possibility that the hunting society believes hunting is vital and neccessary not as a result of study and thought but as a result of what they and their parents (ancestors) have believed, unquestioned, for many years before.
Its like the problems we are having at the moment trying to convince some farmers to switch from pesticides to biocontrols. Its about changing longheld opinions.
Anyway, listen I have to go or I'll be at this all day with you. Later...
Nigel
Well-Known Member
Hi Endy,
Looking at the larger picture he has been independently funded by many conservation/university bodies to carry out studies both concerning fox ecology and other mammal ecology projects
I think you are missing my point; I personally do not give a toss about Stephen Harriss funding in other fields of mammal ecology.
You give me at least two studies from your list that has been funded by a body with an impartial stance on hunting? I will read them.
Why would fox ecology study support hunting?
Why would a fox ecology study not support hunting?
I have read all the evidence submitted to the Burns inquiry, I formed an opinion from this and from my own experiences. A single study does not stand out from either side most lack real evidence or over look important factors.
Cheers
Nigel
Looking at the larger picture he has been independently funded by many conservation/university bodies to carry out studies both concerning fox ecology and other mammal ecology projects
I think you are missing my point; I personally do not give a toss about Stephen Harriss funding in other fields of mammal ecology.
You give me at least two studies from your list that has been funded by a body with an impartial stance on hunting? I will read them.
Why would fox ecology study support hunting?
Why would a fox ecology study not support hunting?
I have read all the evidence submitted to the Burns inquiry, I formed an opinion from this and from my own experiences. A single study does not stand out from either side most lack real evidence or over look important factors.
Cheers
Nigel
wurzel
Well-Known Member
"But why dont these scientists do something to preserve their 'sport' ? They just stand by and let Harris brainwash us all do they?"
Some do I believe
http://www.vet-wildlifemanagement.org.uk/print_html/VetOpinion_html.htm
These sort of people I believe. Remember I am not a Librarian.
Harris may brain wash you....but not me !!
"Cultural conditioning is this instance basically refers to possibility that the hunting society believes hunting is vital and neccessary not as a result of study and thought but as a result of what they and their parents (ancestors) have believed, unquestioned, for many years before."
Well this would be a typical patronising townie point of view.
You might not have learnt anything from your ancestors. I have learn't lots from mine....mainly to do with farming. I believe (unquestioningly) which fields to put my sheep in when a blizzard comes from the South-East or which field not to put calves in when there is lightning.
I don't believe hunting deer is vital. I can shoot everyone of them on my land for the next week. but then there would be none.
I you want effective control of numbers who do you think is doing it in 2007?
"Its like the problems we are having at the moment trying to convince some farmers to switch from pesticides to biocontrols. Its about changing longheld opinions."
Why don't they believe you?
Some do I believe
http://www.vet-wildlifemanagement.org.uk/print_html/VetOpinion_html.htm
These sort of people I believe. Remember I am not a Librarian.
Harris may brain wash you....but not me !!
"Cultural conditioning is this instance basically refers to possibility that the hunting society believes hunting is vital and neccessary not as a result of study and thought but as a result of what they and their parents (ancestors) have believed, unquestioned, for many years before."
Well this would be a typical patronising townie point of view.
You might not have learnt anything from your ancestors. I have learn't lots from mine....mainly to do with farming. I believe (unquestioningly) which fields to put my sheep in when a blizzard comes from the South-East or which field not to put calves in when there is lightning.
I don't believe hunting deer is vital. I can shoot everyone of them on my land for the next week. but then there would be none.
I you want effective control of numbers who do you think is doing it in 2007?
"Its like the problems we are having at the moment trying to convince some farmers to switch from pesticides to biocontrols. Its about changing longheld opinions."
Why don't they believe you?
Nigel
Well-Known Member
Hi Endy,
You Said,
Surely, one of them seeing the great injustice being done to you good people would take it upon himself to set the record straight and show that foxes are best controlled by the use of hounds?
But why dont these scientists do something to preserve their 'sport' ? They just stand by and let Harris brainwash us all do they?
Well just for you at the portcullis hearings it was agreed that each party could provide any witness they wanted, if the CPHA wanted Saddam Hussien then that was their Business. However Alun Micheal told the Middleway Group that the CPHA (LACS, IFAW and R.S.P.C.A ) threatened to withdraw from the whole proceedings if the Middleway Group was allowed to call Professor Stuart Harrop. A former RSPCA employee and now professor of wildlife management law at Kent university. His credentials were impeccable and he would have been very persuasive witness in favour of licensed hunting.
They actually threatened to withdraw because they were so [****] scared of what Stuart Harrop might say?
Do you think their behaviour was right and honest?
Cheers
Nigel
You Said,
Surely, one of them seeing the great injustice being done to you good people would take it upon himself to set the record straight and show that foxes are best controlled by the use of hounds?
But why dont these scientists do something to preserve their 'sport' ? They just stand by and let Harris brainwash us all do they?
Well just for you at the portcullis hearings it was agreed that each party could provide any witness they wanted, if the CPHA wanted Saddam Hussien then that was their Business. However Alun Micheal told the Middleway Group that the CPHA (LACS, IFAW and R.S.P.C.A ) threatened to withdraw from the whole proceedings if the Middleway Group was allowed to call Professor Stuart Harrop. A former RSPCA employee and now professor of wildlife management law at Kent university. His credentials were impeccable and he would have been very persuasive witness in favour of licensed hunting.
They actually threatened to withdraw because they were so [****] scared of what Stuart Harrop might say?
Do you think their behaviour was right and honest?
Cheers
Nigel
peakpark
Well-Known Member
Nigel, that is very interesting.
Why did the Middle Way group cave in to the ghastly Alun Michael's demands?
Why did the Middle Way group cave in to the ghastly Alun Michael's demands?
endymion
Well-Known Member
No, it doesnt sound honest but then I know little about the event so I cant really comment.
However, the behaviour of individuals or organisations cannot be taken as indications of the morality of hunting one way or the other. If all hunt supporters were thugs it would make the act of hunting immoral in your eyes would it?
However, the behaviour of individuals or organisations cannot be taken as indications of the morality of hunting one way or the other. If all hunt supporters were thugs it would make the act of hunting immoral in your eyes would it?
soggy
Well-Known Member
Nigel, that is very interesting.
Why did the Middle Way group cave in to the ghastly Alun Michael's demands?
Interesting pont.
Does anybody have an answer?
Nigel
Well-Known Member
Hi Soogy,
They caved in because they were informed there would be meeting between Alun Micheal and Stuart Harrop, however this meeting never took place.
Make up your own mi
nd and let me know?
Cheers
Nigel
They caved in because they were informed there would be meeting between Alun Micheal and Stuart Harrop, however this meeting never took place.
Make up your own mi
nd and let me know?
Cheers
Nigel