Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

Munchkin said:
ponydentist, you have an incredibly high opinion of yourself, don't you? I can see why you and Prat would get along.

Now, in my experience (which I know is of course pitiful compared to your Godly status), people who feel the need to tell everyone how wonderful they are, constantly, usually aren't.

I've had lessons with Chris and Jane too. And a few other very well thought of international riders and trainers. My vet is one of the top vets in the country, I learn an awful lot from him, as he chooses to talk me through treatment and let me take over when I can. Nice to be trusted. Do I think I know more about riding and veterinary care than everyone else on here? No. Do I think I have a lot to learn? Yes.

Seen plenty of NH demos, including Prat's. Learnt some things at many of them, "banked" in case I ever come across a horse who requires another approach. I can honestly say, hand on heart, that Prat Parelli is the only "NH" person who has failed to impress me. I have always found him and his followers somewhat amusing... or should that be bemusing? Most of what all of these people demonstrate, however, is common sense.

Since Friday last week I've had a pony who wouldn't come near a human being (and would spin and kick out at a person who attempted to approach him in an enclosed space). He's now letting me climb all over him while he stands in the stable. Am I a "natural horsewoman?" No, I just used my experience to deal with him and to be honest it wasn't rocket science.

I've competed in show jumping (mainly), showing, dressage and hunter trials. I hunt, had a crack at team chasing, I break my own horses in, I break other people's horses in, I reschool so-called problem horses.

Do I think I know more than everyone here? No. Do I think I know more about some aspects of horsecare and riding than some here? Yes. Do I think some people here know more about some aspects of horsecare and riding than me? Yes.

Point of my post?

GET OVER YOURSELF.
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Great. Well done you.

So what do you understand about the techniques and rationale and pyscology being used in this particular instance then ? Because thats what the issue is here . People are questioning the use of specific things here. The trainer knew why he was usingthem ...all Im asking is....does anyone else??

I dont claim to know more than anyone on here....i now more than some about those techniques....that all.....a lot have never even seen them before ...which I suspect is why they were upset or distressed by them?
 
Oh dear, I fear PonyDentist may have undone all of TiC's good work. And Parelli people wonder why there's so much negative reaction to them...

Not knowing an awful lot about working with problem horses I was prepared to keep an open mind, despite being a bit shocked by what I saw on the videos. However, the persistent lack of any real answers from the Parelli supporters, other than arrogant claims that they are somehow "better" than non Parelli followers, has swayed me WAY more towards the anti-Parelli side of the fence. I have now set up a deck chair and brought lemonade with me. Looks like I'll be there for a while.

Way to go, PonyDentist & co.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will ) but as far as I''m aware the methods used by Mr P were simply those used by the old time cowboys in the bad old days when horses were quite literally "broken". I believe that it was commonplace in those days to tie up a front leg to allow a rider to get on board, the horse obviously couldn't buck the rider off without falling to the ground itself (clever use of depriving it of fight or flight) and so "submitted" to the rider. After a suitable amount of time had passed the rope was removed and if all four feet stayed on the ground the horse was considered "broke".

The reason these methods were used were because the horses were wild and it was a quick way to get the job done, oh and because "it was the way my dad done it" I imagine that as Mr P rode the rodeo circuit he was well aware of these methods.

I like to think that the majority of todays horsemen/women are more enlighted and educated and would not resort to these "strong arm methods" as a quick fix, in my experience a quick fix comes equally quickly unfixed. I prefer time and patience myself, and my motto is "Quit while you are ahead"
 
ponydentist said:
Great. Well done you.

So what do you understand about the techniques and rationale and pyscology being used in this particular instance then ? Because thats what the issue is here . People are questioning the use of specific things here. The trainer knew why he was usingthem ...all Im asking is....does anyone else??

I dont claim to know more than anyone on here....i now more than some about those techniques....that all.....a lot have never even seen them before ...which I suspect is why they were upset or distressed by them?
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Well, you see, for me it's not an issue of understanding at all. I'm not even particularly interested why PP was using the techniques, or if they work. I simply disapprove of them and consider the use of them a bad judgement at best and unethical/abusive at worst.

I know very little about stoning for example, don't need to know much or why to disapprove of that :rolleyes:
 
Please don't turn this into 'my dads bigger that your dad' debate, it had started to become a sensible debate after getting rid of the immature insulter's.
 
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anima said:
Would you care to explain what Catwalks reaction was then?

I have helped a head shy horse.The people i was lucky enough to train with have helped extreme cases too as have many of the people you are intent on calling stupid and inexperianced on thsi forum-they don't think themselves special in some way and would always put what the horse needed above their own ego and desire to get the job done.
one of the horses came to the yard so frightened that he would attack you if he SAW the bridle in your hands.
We all worked through it-little by little he became a horse happy with his bridle and that is the way to do it.
Granted,lacking in the drama PP demo's like but it worked and was fair to the horse.
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No....it wasnt "the " way to do it....it was "a" way to do it...i agree totally. Well done those people.

Just as you assume i am calling people stupid....I have said no such thing...you are assuming what ever you want to assume. Many people on here are saying actually writing it....that Pat Parelli Abused the horse or was cruel....whats the difference. I have never told anyone ....put it in black and white ....at any point in this thread they are stupid or better or worse than anyone else.....but many have stated that pat Parelli abused a horse. How did he?
 
Oh please lose the "well done you" comment - I continue to gain experience because I am passionate about horses and enjoy being around them, not because I feel the need to impress anyone, unlike some. Which was my point... but of course you chose to ignore it.

You don't claim to know more than than anyone here? Please! You've accused anyone who disagrees with you of being uneducated and have suggested that people cannot become experienced with horses by owning, riding and spending time with them. You have stated on more than one occasion how much experience YOU have, how fantastic people like Chris and Jane think YOU are, have repeatedly asked people for their credentials to prove that they are not entitled to an opinion (in your mind) however YOU are.

You have admitted to starting this thread to prove that anyone who disagrees with you "cannot see past the end of their noses."

I think we can conclude that you believe you are a better horseperson than anyone else here.

To answer your question regarding the rationale and psychology behind what Prat was doing on Friday - I do understand, to a point. There were moments where I could see what he was trying (and failing) to achieve. And I haven't suggested it was abuse, however most of what he did goes against everything he preaches and no, I didn't like it. I don't have to like it just because it's Prat Sodding Parelli.

EAR SHY? By Prat Parelli
Can you touch your husband's ears? What about your best friend's, your child's or your mother's?
If you couldn't then there's probably something wrong with the relationship! This is how I want you to think of your horse's so-called 'problem'. If he doesn't like his ears to be touched its because deep down inside, he does not trust you. There is a flaw in your relationship.
When I talk about the solution here I am going to give you the natural approach, the one that consider's the horse's point of view. To effect a 'cure' you have to gain his trust and permission. The normal way is often to force the horse to accept it, twitch him, tie him, throw him…. In my mind (and in the horse's I'm sure) this is akin to rape and I won't use it.
So to do it with the horse's permission may seem to take a little time, technique and knowledge, but if you do it right you won't have to do it over. . .
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Now please answer MY question. If the above is what Prat teaches/preaches, what was the purpose of the demo? To prove that he can get one over on any horse, using any method? It's certainly going against everything he supposedly stands for, wouldn't you agree?
 
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ponydentist said:
No....it wasnt "the " way to do it....it was "a" way to do it...i agree totally. Well done those people.
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They got their reward-the horses were happy and all went on to have usefull lives.
I am sure they and many more like them have helped an infinate number of other horses since my relocation.

ponydentist said:
Just as you assume i am calling people stupid....I have said no such thing...you are assuming what ever you want to assume. Many people on here are saying actually writing it....that Pat Parelli Abused the horse or was cruel....whats the difference. I have never told anyone ....put it in black and white ....at any point in this thread they are stupid or better or worse than anyone else.....but many have stated that pat Parelli abused a horse. How did he?
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A poor choice of words perhaps. What you have done in black and white(or black and beige in this case :p ) is tell people your experiance is greater then theirs which infers you are better,or at least better "qualified" to comment.
That is not a statement of fact,simply your opinion of yourself.
As Martlin said,you don't need to know the ins and outs of stoning to know it is wrong ;) and the fact that very few are happy about the horses treatment after watching the video(including other NH trainers) shows that to the majority it was wrong.
The nasty little sting in demoracy in that the maajority get to make the rules ;)

My opinion(and that of many others) is that PP's treatment of Catwalk at that time,in that place was abuse as defined by the Oxford dictionary.
The only remotly possable way he could justify his actions are if Catwak was unbelivably violent when bridled which TBH I very much doubt given that RW grooms were able to bridle him before the demo,and it is a reasonable assumption that they are not all in ICU.
So I will ask again- what was catwalks "extreme but not that extreme reaction to the bridle?
in other words,what did he do that made him a danger to the person trying to put the bridle on him?
 
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So PD, just to clarify;
You don't believe that was an abusive (forceful restraint and injury) way to solve a fear problem with that horse?
Do you think that was a demonstration to show how to treat a horse with that kind of problem, and as a recommendation of that methodology??
 
You know, I just can't get a sodding response to my post.

Possibly because nobody objects to it?

Sigh.
 
Naturally, can I ask you a question? Well, I'll ask anyway...

As I've gathered you dab in NH, so thought you'll be qualified to tell me:

Do you really, truly believe that your horse thinks you are another horse?
 
martlin said:
Naturally, can I ask you a question? Well, I'll ask anyway...

As I've gathered you dab in NH, so thought you'll be qualified to tell me:

Do you really, truly believe that your horse thinks you are another horse?
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Ha ha ha - sorry even at this late hour (gone midnight) that made me smile.

When I work with horses some of them nibble my hair. Does that mean they think I am a haystack?

And do people really under estimate horses so much? I doubt there is much evidence to suggest that they can't tell the difference between their own species and others.

They are however generally good at reading body language.

The guy that is helping me work with my girl can send her in all directions just with a look and a nod of his head.
 
Monsters said:
Disgusting!!!! Horse abuse I would say and people actually use and believe in this it's scary. Parelli followers where are you...????? Explain? Pat and linda seriously need to stop working with horses and taking gulable people in.
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What other kind could they possibly take in?:D
 
LucyPriory said:
Ha ha ha - sorry even at this late hour (gone midnight) that made me smile.

When I work with horses some of them nibble my hair. Does that mean they think I am a haystack?

And do people really under estimate horses so much? I doubt there is much evidence to suggest that they can't tell the difference between their own species and others.

They are however generally good at reading body language.

The guy that is helping me work with my girl can send her in all directions just with a look and a nod of his head.
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Oh, I know they read the body language, but that's 2 different things, isn't it?
Mine are very good linguists as well - when I start swearing in my native language, they know straight away that they've crossed the line:cool::p
 
martlin said:
But you see, when I swear in English they don't react at all:o:D
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Clearly you abise their ears so much they are dead to your boring English swearing!
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martlin said:
Do you think that classes as learned helplessness? (see what I did here, I'm learning the lingo now;))
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I would tell you,but you could nto possably understand without buying my DVD.

I am sure after sitting through an hour of my son and his class ahm"singing" at the school nativity you would be able to understand why your horse might choose to shut down his left brain to save himself
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anima said:
I would tell you,but you could nto possably understand without buying my DVD.

I am sure after sitting through an hour of my son and his class ahm"singing" at the school nativity you would be able to understand why your horse might choose to shut down his left brain to save himself
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Where do I send the money? Or do I just give you my credit card details?
I'll have 10 of them DVD's, please.
 
ponydentist said:
How many of you have ever watched Ceaser Millan.....the dog whisperer??/


Who has ever seen him take a dog which will not back down and put it on its back in a submissive posture and place his fingers into its throat and hold it there for a time??? CRuel man......hes Abusing that dog.......report him ..

.
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He is abusive.
Or don't you think the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior has any credibility?
 
SirenaXVI said:
My point was that the girls used lies together with smoke and mirrors to get their own way - a little like Mr P, not that I am for a moment insinuating the murder bit! In any case the girls did not commit the burnings, they did, however engineer them.
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none of the Salem "witches" were burned.
Most were hanged; one was pressed to death with heavy stones.
 
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