Parelli - have I been mean?

At my RS our first lessons went 1 lesson with tack, 1 lesson without tack and just a headcollar. It wasn't parelli but it did get me learning to use my seat and voice to control the horse. This I feel has made me a more confident rider. I am not " against" parelli but I am not for it either. People who find it works for them great, people who don't fine. Its your horse and its up to you if you use various methods or not.

Ok point made I'll go back to my hole now :)
 
OP. FWIW, I think you did the right thing. It's your horse and you are an experienced horse-owner who can teach the novice loaner effective consistent ways to deal with your horse. Doing what the horse is used to will be far better for both horse and rider (as long as the horse is well-behaved with your methods lol;)). I too would have a fit if some-one suggested throwing a football etc at my horses. And yes, I have seen NH in action, through my RC, although I refused to join in. My horses are well-mannered without that nonsense!
I was surprised though when a very experienced livery owner said 'Now I know that when my horse screeches to a halt inches away from me, it's not because she loves me but because she's trying to intimidate me' (!!!) 50+ yrs old and she needed to be told that!:confused:
 
After some consideration, I think you should encourage him to go for it. I give him 10 mins max. before Yorkie puts him in his place and he's begging for his whip back...

That way he wont be able to sulk about you stopping him 'bonding' or whatever tripe he's come out with as to why he wants to try parelli in the first place.

Also - I think he's far too whip happy as it is, so might be nice change for him & the horse if you let him prat about without it. (supervised of course, so he doesn't do more harm than good - but I think it would take a hell of a lot to bugger up that little pony!)
 
You are totally right in saying no to this type of 'training'. I have seen several horses that have been 'put through' the parelli methods and have not seen one that isn't head shy, confused and grumpy. Traditional methods done properly are fine. I have been in horses for 35 years and have used my own ways. Mostly traditional but always geared for the individual. I have never bullied, beat or forced any horse. Just given it the time it needed. I know what I would like to do if I saw Mr & Mrs parelli with a carrot stick!!! And I know exactly where I would like to put it.
 
I have seen several horses that have been 'put through' the parelli methods and have not seen one that isn't head shy, confused and grumpy.
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That's interesting. I have three, and none of them are head shy, confused or grumpy as far as I can tell.

I'm not a Parelli disciple, but see it as useful and a part of the whole big picture.
 
Personally although I work with my horses from a natural perspective I certainly wouldn't let a parelli peep near them (no offense but I have my reasoning). I have just been writing up articles for a new website called equine science which will be live early next week. In it it explains through the use of geometry and physics WHY so many of these so called natural horsemanship methods do work, exactly why they work and how some are actually causing the horse enter deeper into 'learnt helplessness'.

So yes, your horse and you have done the right thing, as the first thing I always say to people is if you are the person ultimatly responsible for that horse then you are the one that needs to speak for that horse when you see clouds on the horizon so to speak.
 
I think you have the right to have done with your horse what you wish.
However it seems to be commendable that this child wants to learn a way to control and work with the horse rather than beat it with a whip, as I have seen young kids on ponies do at shows. Maybe you could help your sharer so that a crop is not needed?
 
Pilib said:
I would have said I was quite open minded about it until I saw 'that' video of Linda Parelli and the one eyed horse. I would now never, EVER entertain Parelli as I was so disgusted by her behaviour and 'training' method.

Any one who is easily influenced or a novice can watch that video and copy what she was doing...........it doesn't bear thinking about. So yes you 100% did the right thing.
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^^ Totally with this view. NO way would I want a novice trying Parelli with my girl... Took me 2 years to be able to touch her all over and groom her properly without her running away, so I wouldn't want any of it thanks.
 
equine-science said:
how some are actually causing the horse enter deeper into 'learnt helplessness'.
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Now that is a huge old can of worms. Wonder how many training methods full stop have been known to cause learnt helplessness?

Natural horsemanship IS for me I'm afraid. But intrestingly I wouldn't let a novice, or newcommer to NH play with my horse unsupervised by a very knowledgeable person. Far too much at stake.
 
TicTac said:
BUT it seriously pisses me off that so many people are bigoted towards The Parelli method ( but Parelli is not the only mathod of NH ) when to be honest half of you have never even tried it or thought about why you do it
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Allow me to un-piss you slightly. I used to follow the for/against P arguments on forums generally keeping out of them as I didn't have sufficient knowledge of the system to make a reasoned judgement.
So in the end I studied P and practiced it with one of my horses. The conclusion I came to is yes the system will work but by god you need to be experienced to use it without screwing up the horse. There in lies my issue with it. Those that are experienced enough to use it safely dont need it, those that do need it aren't capable of using it without adverse effect on the horse.
So who is the target market? Exactely those people who could do most damage to the horse. This is the reason I will NEVER support it.

My decision is based on experience, not mob law.
 
I have several good friends who practise Parelli and all their horses are perfecly normal and well-behaved and certainly not traumatised. Although tbh these horses were pretty laid back easy types in the first place.

I dont do Parelli and when my friend thought she might do some with my horse I was totally against it - he would be mortified if you started waiving a rope under his nose to make him back off as he is such a sweetie and I invite him into my space all the time as long as he is respectful.

So in answer to your question there is no way I would want someone who doesn't know what they are doing to practise any sort of NH on my horse because in the wrong hands it can have totally the opposite effect to the one you are trying to get especially with a more sensitive horse.
 
Tbh, I greatly dislike Parelli when it's done correctly - it's far more invasive and abusive to the horses mind than good traditional training. Done incorrectly of course traditional and Parelli are equally as disastrous.
I cannot understand why people
A - buy into Parellis marketing BS
B - can't see beyond the fluffy hype and sentimental music.
Parelli is all about breaking the horses mind - far more so than good English/western/classical/ training. Natural horsemanship in general I have no problem with, most of it is only what we should be doing anyway. The Parellis are NOT natural horse people - they are circus trainers.

So in reply to OP you did exactly what I'd have done.
 
i think you are totally right, i wouldn't allow anyone who is loaning my horse to start trying tio "fix" them espically as there aren't broke!!! (thats me lol)
 
Naturally yes this is a very valid point and I too love NH but my Horses version of it. The problem is too many things fall under the blanket name of NH for instance Alexander Nevzorov and Monty Roberts are worlds a part and I know which I would and would not allow near my horse and which one my Arab would eat for breakfast and swill down with a bucket of water ta boo. he works as a therapy horse and spots the untruthful and disrespectful as well as the truthful and respectful people before they even get through the gate into this field.

I've just been writing some articles using physics and geometrics as a way of explaining WHY many of these methods work I then sent some of my articles to an equine department in america, the lady who emailed me back said she could see exactly where I was coming from and felt my theroies need further research so has given me contact details of an equine psychologist at another uni. Years ago I put up a thread about a certain trailer loading method, I had 103 replies, 97 of them agreed with me after reading it, yet they were fans of that trainer, it was the trainers forum in fact. But yet again it is still easy to see WHY they still follow the method (again something that can easily be explained)

What needs to be looked at is not just the fact we see the results but WHY we get these results as beleive me some of these horses are quite literally brainwashed to please humans and as I have said this can easily be explained. Of which I can easily give examples which again will be on the website.It'll be about week before the site goes live but there will be plenty of articles on it explaining all this stuff.

I'm flat out finishing the site so if anyone wants the URL for it once it goes live best to PM me for it as might not have time to come on the threads as also off playing with Horses whilst we have the sunshine.
 
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