Parelli rope halters - will they snap?

Oops! My photo doesn't show the knot does it? Try this one.

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Tinypony said:
In your opinion.... seriously though, who says? I've not seen pics of Buck Brannaman tying a rope halter like that, just for example. I think you'll find most tend to say that the way mine is tied is the "right" way. But it another ways suits someone, why not? (My browser won't let me insert smilies, so please at this point visualise friendly smiley face...).

Fact is, rope halters and the leadropes attached won't break, so they need to be treated with respect. As does anything else we put on our horses' heads really, because it has been known for headcollars and leadropes not to break when they are supposed to. On another thread recently people were saying even velcro headcollars don't always give way. When I'm at my yard I always know where my sharp knife is, just in case, and I don't think that's a bad idea even if you don't use a rope halter. In an emergency you can't always get at the bit you'd like to in order to undo it. I have bolt cutters as well, because some of my fencing has wire.

I'm thinking of getting a nice little knife to wear on my belt when I'm out as well. Might come in handy for peeling apples as I trundle along.
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Tiny Pony. This is the way Parelli teaches.

The knot can always be undone should the horse pull back. All you have to do is move the loop up and the whole knot becomes loose.
 
I dont know what the knot I use is called but it cant tighten on itself and is easy to undo. As for the tying up issue, as someone else pointed out surely people use twine, etc as a break point so it does not matter that the rope halter wont break. Neither would a standard headcollar. But the twine would.
I use a rope halter on the 3 yo just because it provides a little extra control. Hes a big, playful horse and takes the mick in a standard headcollar. I tie him up in it because he was taught to tie properly as a foal, and I use twine. I would never tie in a pressure/training halter but that is a different piece of kit.
 
Maybe some are confusing rope halters with Be-Nice halters? They look similar but the Be-Nice ones have a cross over function underneath, between chin and throat, so pressure on the leadrope causes the halter to tighten round the head. Those are not designed for tying up.
 
Spring Feather said:
The whole point of rope halters and their accompanying leads is that they don't break. For people who teach their horses to tie properly (whereby the horse absolutely will not pull back ever) they do not want the halter or rope breaking.
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Is it really possible to train a horse never to pull back, no matter what? All horses? I have to say I doubt it personally.

But supposing it is true... How would that training have to be conducted?
 
You forgot to mention that Be Nice (Not nice in my opinion) halters have studs along the top on the inside

I think the difference is that in the US where rope halters are used a lot,the horses are trained to do a job and part of that involves waiting to do a job which includes being trained to ground tie or just wait with the rope wrapped loosely round the post :)

 
Jinglejoys I haven't actually seen one in some years and when I did last see them in a tack shop they didn't have studs on them, that sounds nasty. They were just a simple pressure halter before. I wasn't even sure they were still being made, I haven't seen one for so long.
 
Going slightly OT, how many put a rope halter on in much the same way they put on a webbing/leather halter? One of the neat things about rope halters, to me at any rate, is how easily they can be put on a shy horse so it's on before they realise.

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Tnavas said:
Tiny Pony. This is the way Parelli teaches.

The knot can always be undone should the horse pull back. All you have to do is move the loop up and the whole knot becomes loose.
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See this is interesting, because one of my friends is a certified Parelli instructor and I've never seen her horse with the knot set up so that you can pull it out with a quick release as you do Tnavas. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's not the usual way to tie the rope halters in my experience. I'm looking at the gallery on my friend's webpage, and at photos of clinics where she's teaching, and from that it appears that nobody has tied the knot as a quick release (however good an idea that is). Which would lead me to believe that nothing has changed since I was a Parelli working student.

Pat P is certainly from the school of thought that horses should be tied up to something solid and have learned to yield to pressure at all times.

Agreed, putting a rope halter, or any headcollar type of headgear on in the "Parelli way" - arm over neck, bring halter up under the head is a good idea. Really useful when helping a horse to get over issues with being haltered. Again, most American/cowboy style of horsemen I know do that, they also ask for the head down a little, and the nose tipped towards them.

Have seen plenty of people putting rope halters on the "headcollar method" - flipping the rope over the ears in ungainly fashion. Proving all sorts of things about tools and people I suppose.
 
It's not advisable to tie up with any rope head collar or pressure halter. The sensitive nerves behind the ears can be badly damaged if the horse pulls back regardless of whether the halter breaks or not. This is why rope halters are so effective but potentially dangerous if misused.
 
lastchancer said:
It's not advisable to tie up with any rope head collar or pressure halter. The sensitive nerves behind the ears can be badly damaged if the horse pulls back regardless of whether the halter breaks or not. This is why rope halters are so effective but potentially dangerous if misused.
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Right, and the reason for a rope halter's greater effectiveness (and potential danger) is the thinness of rope compared with the band/strap of a headcollar. The force is concentrated on to a smaller area of tissue. Even more so with stiff rope because it doesn't flatten at all. This is true whether the force is supplied by the handler pulling against the horse, or the horse pulling against an immovable object - except in the latter case the forces are potentially MUCH greater. Okay, so this is pretty obvious.
 
Spring Feather said:
Horses here are more often than not taught to ground-tie first. Quite easy to teach. Tying them to an object thereafter is neither here nor there as they won't move.
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I'm afraid I don't know much about how people go about teaching a horse to ground-tie and should really educate myself. But I guess the burning question would be whether and how this would completely overcome the reflex urge to flee if the horse was suddenly to become frightened. Because any vigorous attempt to flee would surely test the physical restraint on the horse. Or am I missing something?
 
Having seen the permanent nerve damage caused on a young eventer that got their expensive high profile brand name leather headcollar caught in the stable & it didn't break, I would never tie anything so that it didn't have a weak link. Any form of restraint, but imho more especially those that produce a narrow band of increased pressure (which they have to for the same force due to the reduced surface area) need to be used with an easier breakaway. Anything can damage this very sensitive area, but some are riskier than others. It's a trap to think because it hasn't happened to you yet it never will. That beautiful 3 yr old eventer had to be shot due to the extensive damage it suffered.
 
pip6 said:
Having seen the permanent nerve damage caused on a young eventer that got their expensive high profile brand name leather headcollar caught in the stable & it didn't break, I would never tie anything so that it didn't have a weak link. Any form of restraint, but imho more especially those that produce a narrow band of increased pressure (which they have to for the same force due to the reduced surface area) need to be used with an easier breakaway. Anything can damage this very sensitive area, but some are riskier than others. It's a trap to think because it hasn't happened to you yet it never will. That beautiful 3 yr old eventer had to be shot due to the extensive damage it suffered.
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Not the head collars fault if the stable had an object in it that could catch up a head collar.
 
equi said:
If it has the word parelli attached to it, don't use it.
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While he may be an exhibitionist and some people stuff up their Parelli training it can produce amazing results

At a big show their was a Parelli demo. Can't remember the mans name. The horse and him were SI in tune with each other. The climax of the demo was him hopping on the horse, no saddle or bridle and jumping around the 'Hunter Round the Ring' course. The competitors were warming up in the ring and were getting in his way, their horses were wearing a tack shop each. They were open mouthed in awe watching this perfect smooth an quiet round no saddle or bridle. I'd love to have that relationship with my horse.
 
fburton said:
I'm afraid I don't know much about how people go about teaching a horse to ground-tie and should really educate myself. But I guess the burning question would be whether and how this would completely overcome the reflex urge to flee if the horse was suddenly to become frightened. Because any vigorous attempt to flee would surely test the physical restraint on the horse. Or am I missing something?
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I've had two horses from Portugal. Both taught to tie to solid objects (I don't know how). The first one would actually make a point of taking the **** if tied to baler twine-or when I first got him, an equitie. He would just turn his head quickly and break it-he never once pulled back in 7 years and never attempted it when tied to only a ring. Only had the other one a few weeks so time will tell. I was looking up how to teach ground tying last night, would be very useful for me.

I don't get the rope halters except that if you have a lot of horses its easier than having individual head collars (but then all mine fit in a cob size). They are horses, they can feel a fly land on them-anything you think you need a rope halter for can be taught in a normal head collar.
 
I like rope halters as I feel they are much clearer to the horse. I agree that you can teach in any type of headcollar but IMO you can do it more subtly with a thinner one.
 
Tnavas said:
While he may be an exhibitionist and some people stuff up their Parelli training it can produce amazing results
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There's no doubt Parelli folk can do amazing, impressive things with their horses. It's the methods used to achieve those results that concerns some people, including me. I don't think the ends always justify the means. Please don't think I am saying that everything in Parelli is bad; I think there's a lot of good stuff along with some decidedly iffy practices and ideas.

At a big show their was a Parelli demo. Can't remember the mans name. The horse and him were SI in tune with each other. The climax of the demo was him hopping on the horse, no saddle or bridle and jumping around the 'Hunter Round the Ring' course. The competitors were warming up in the ring and were getting in his way, their horses were wearing a tack shop each. They were open mouthed in awe watching this perfect smooth an quiet round no saddle or bridle. I'd love to have that relationship with my horse.
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To my mind, results and relationship aren't exactly the same thing, although having a good relationship sure helps to achieve good results. You can have a perfectly behaved, obedient and willing horse that has been trained with an attitude and approach that demands respect and obedience. Maybe even submission too. For me, however, that wouldn't be a desirable relationship. Indeed, it isn't necessary to have a close relationship at all in the case of a horse trained by one person to a high degree of compliance that is handed over to another person to perform with impressively, at least temporarily. So I don't think one can rate a relationship just from such a show; I think you'd have to see all the other kinds interaction between the person and the horse, including training of course. Call me an old skeptic if you like!

(It's nice to see good tackless riding though.)
 
Yeah, basically what fburton said. The horse in that demo was already very trained and obedient, that won't have happened in that short time. I just like the look of rope halters and thats why i have one.
 
To go back to the original question, if you make your own rope halters you can choose the thickness or thinness of the rope and the breaking strain at which it breaks. I am immediately suspicious of anyone trying to sell me a stick that I can cut out of the nearest hedge, just because it has a fancy name and a price tag to match, so I wouldn't know about Parelli halters specifically. Lots of information on making rope halters on the Internet and the rope is available from any decent ship's chandlers. Judging from what I see, the difficult part seems to be learning how and when to use them.
 
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