Parelli statement in re: Catwalk

Maybe RW and his team could post some footage of how they are now putting the bridle on, so we can all see for ourselves how happy Catwalk now is?
 
Leogeorge, do you think it would probably be one of those subjective judgement things, where some would say the horse looks relaxed, others would say it looks shut down. Not sure what purpose a video at this stage would serve. The horse is able to be bridled, and probably all concerned are happy. It's others who are questioning whether the end justified the means.
What good can come out of this? From the statement made it appears to me that Pat P will probably just be a bit more careful what he shows the "misunderstanding" public. He obviously doesn't think there is anything wrong with how he went about things, so is unlikely to change. To bring about change in a person, they need to see a need for change and want it.
Maybe the good is to make people more aware of what the Parelli approach can involve? Or for people to reflect on what is and is not acceptable to them personally when they deal with horses?
 
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Oh good, that Open Letter really clarifies and explains everything. I have completely changed my mind - I will now use Parelli - NOT
 
Just read the BHS statement, and I have to say, I think it is very encouraging.

1) The BHS DID get an independant vet to see Catwalk on the friday night.
2) that vet refused permission for Catwalk to be used again
3) that an INVESTIGATION IS ONGOING, which is why no further info can be given at this stage.

This is actually brilliant news - the wheels of these investigations can turn very slowly, but there is one on-going. You cannot say anything to prejudice the outcome of that investigation, and so have to be very guarded in what you say. In other words, I believe that the BHS sees that there is a case to answer, and are working thru the evidence, but cannot say more at this time, should it prejudice a possible prosecution.

sm x
 
shysmum said:
Just read the BHS statement, and I have to say, I think it is very encouraging.

1) The BHS DID get an independant vet to see Catwalk on the friday night.
2) that vet refused permission for Catwalk to be used again
3) that an INVESTIGATION IS ONGOING, which is why no further info can be given at this stage.

This is actually brilliant news - the wheels of these investigations can turn very slowly, but there is one on-going. You cannot say anything to prejudice the outcome of that investigation, and so have to be very guarded in what you say. In other words, I believe that the BHS sees that there is a case to answer, and are working thru the evidence, but cannot say more at this time, should it prejudice a possible prosecution.

sm x
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Sm, I was just going to make those very points, when I realised that you had posted this. It certainly doesn't seem that the BHS said anything along the lines of 'I can't see what all the fuss is about', does it?
 
Tinypony, I guess if Catwalk was shown to be just stood there, head low "accepting" the bridle, then yes it would be subjective as to whether he is relaxed or shutdown (although dead eyes are often a big give away!), but it would clear up any confusion as to whether Catwalk is being bridled without a fight, or even some resistence. If we are to believe PP, and Catwalk is now jumping better than ever before, we can expect to see Catwalk voluntarily opening his mouth, with a happy, not resigned face, to accept the bridle and be raring to go and do his job.
 
I do not doubt they are able to bridle catwalk now............ eventually!

As they were able to before the mighty one subjected to forced , sorry fraudulant slip meant naturally showed him the joys of wearing a bridle.
Or was catwalked ridden in a head collar previous to his meetihg with pp?
 
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Lannerch, if you read the early posts on this, he was being bridled, but it wasn't pretty and Whittaker wouldn't say exactly how.
 
Tinypony said:
Lannerch, if you read the early posts on this, he was being bridled, but it wasn't pretty and Whittaker wouldn't say exactly how.
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I have read them which means the statement catwalk is now being bridled was correct before he met pp even if it wasn't pretty which I suspect with the abscence of video evidence is still the case ( ever the sceptic ) now!
 
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Well, it is. Don't make the mistake of thinking that this sort of approach doesn't work, or that the noble stallion somehow fights back and refuses to submit. Horses put up with a lot, and in some cases, they get shut down, in other cases they decide to take the least line of resistance, but for whatever reason, Catwalk is being bridled without a fight. That is a known fact.
We might not like some of Pat P's methods, we may think he's an egotistical showman, but he is a very experienced horseman, and he has solved 1000's of "problems" with horses over the years.
 
Tinypony said:
Catwalk is being bridled without a fight. That is a known fact.
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TP - how on earth is this a known fact?! there is no obvious evidence that RW or PP got the bridle on without a fight, and I don't believe this wont stop untill there is proof, and PP has actually apologised... :(
 
Quote tinypony..

Well, it is. Don't make the mistake of thinking that this sort of approach doesn't work, or that the noble stallion somehow fights back and refuses to submit. Horses put up with a lot, and in some cases, they get shut down, in other cases they decide to take the least line of resistance, but for whatever reason, Catwalk is being bridled without a fight. That is a known fact.
We might not like some of Pat P's methods, we may think he's an egotistical showman, but he is a very experienced horseman, and he has solved 1000's of "problems" with horses over the years.

I'm not making any mistakes. This approach certainly "works" for many because as you say, horses put up with a lot and many are quite quick to shut down and take the path of least resistance. I'm not convinced, as gentle as Catwalk seems to be, that he is one of them.

Sorry, but it is not a known fact by any stretch of the imagination If he is now being bridled without resistance, lets see it!!
 
Anyone who was at the Pat and Cat Show may have seen that the debacle was being recorded on a camcorder by a "Parelli Professional"

Could we have an unedited show and tell please ?
 
Sorry Leogeorge, I wasn't really responding to you. I felt some people seemed to imply that they don't believe the horse is being bridled. I'm reliably told by someone in the Parelli camp that he is, and without resistance, what his state of mind may be is another matter of course. ! He may well have shut down. As you say, we know that this stuff "works". We may not be happy about how it works! I think we agree on this one (for a change LOL!).

I'd be very surprised if some video doesn't appear soon to prove that what Parelli did has "worked", as a justification for what happened.
 
bay_beasty said:
why is the date friday the 10th of July and he says he looked at him in the morning????? am I just bring picky!
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Actually the 10th is Saturday not Friday...

I am in Level 3 of the Parelli programme and myself after reading the so called apology I just thought ..........

This is so typical, when PP are questioned they always go around in circles in their replies and in the end never actually answer the question nor accept they may have done wrong.

I agree he only apologies that the audience were confused, I said ont eh Savvy Forum that I owuld like an explanation as to why the gum line was used and why it was used for so long.

Some replied saying Pat does not need to answer anything about what he did,

WRONG.... he takes our money and there will be people who will try and copy him and when giving a public display you should be prepared to answer any questions put to you.

I am not into slandering Pat and Linda (remember there was two of them) as they have helped me so much but I am not some novice kid or adult who thinks they know it all being pushy.

I am someone with a relative amount of experience wanting a simple answer to a simple question. For some reason it is always avoided.
 
I would rather we hear from some one who has good working knowledge of Catwalk, rather than 'reliable' info from the Parelli camp, who let us face it are unlikely to be giving out unbiased information.
 
yorksG said:
I would rather we hear from some one who has good working knowledge of Catwalk, rather than 'reliable' info from the Parelli camp, who let us face it are unlikely to be giving out unbiased information.
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Definitely, preferably from the people that first started to see Catwalks resistant behaviour, right up to camp Robert...
 
KS1 said:
Actually the 10th is Saturday not Friday...

I am in Level 3 of the Parelli programme and myself after reading the so called apology I just thought ..........

This is so typical, when PP are questioned they always go around in circles in their replies and in the end never actually answer the question nor accept they may have done wrong.

I agree he only apologies that the audience were confused, I said ont eh Savvy Forum that I owuld like an explanation as to why the gum line was used and why it was used for so long.

Some replied saying Pat does not need to answer anything about what he did,

WRONG.... he takes our money and there will be people who will try and copy him and when giving a public display you should be prepared to answer any questions put to you.

I am not into slandering Pat and Linda (remember there was two of them) as they have helped me so much but I am not some novice kid or adult who thinks they know it all being pushy.

I am someone with a relative amount of experience wanting a simple answer to a simple question. For some reason it is always avoided.
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So they take thousands of pounds off of people for instruction on how to practice NH the parelli way but don't explain their practices because they don't have to? Now that does not seem right! Surely Robert Whitaker hasn't just blindly handed his stallion over and is just accepting job done with out an explanation as to what procedures were used and why???
 
Can I make something crystal clear? Just because I have been told that Catwalk can now be bridled easily, it does not mean that I agree with what has been done to him. I think it was wrong, I think that it was unkind and based on incorrect "dominance" theories. I think that the most likely thing to happen as a result of the way the horse was treated was that he would have shut down, but if he isn't shut down he's learnt that the "wrong thing" really was difficult and the "right thing" really was the easiest option. I don't think that is how you help a horse to truly accept the bridle and bit, and am frustrated that this is the sort of thing that ends up with all trainers who look a bit "nh" being tarred with the same brush.
I have been around horses for most of my life, and had a lot of exposure to various trainers who are a bit different, including a spell as a Parelli student. I have seen horses put through harsh and unjust treatment, and been saddened to see that, in the end, it "worked". The clever people can explain the "science" behind why, but this knowledge leaves me completely certain that by now bridling Catwalk will simply not be an issue. For me though when I saw the harsh treatment doled under the guise of training, the price was too high, and there was something ethically wrong with treating a horse that way. I am not a fluffy bunny, and use pressure in my training, but would never allow anything like this to be done to one of my horses. The word "respect" gets bandied about a lot, by nh and more conventional people, but to me that should be a two-way street, and the way Catwalk was treated was disrespectful.
What I was saying was that, even though we may disagree strongly with treating horses this way, it works. Harsh methods often do, however wrong we may think that is.
 
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Took him long enough to reply, perhaps he thinks he doesn't have to answer mere mortals. Are they going back soon and never coming back. And next time I'm at a horse show and Robert Whittaker is riding I'll hiss at him;););)
 
I wonder if this will turn out to be a case of "there is no such publicity as bad publicity". Of course they will be back, they have a dedicated following in the UK.
 
Tinypony said:
Can I make something crystal clear? Just because I have been told that Catwalk can now be bridled easily, it does not mean that I agree with what has been done to him. I think it was wrong, I think that it was unkind and based on incorrect "dominance" theories. I think that the most likely thing to happen as a result of the way the horse was treated was that he would have shut down, but if he isn't shut down he's learnt that the "wrong thing" really was difficult and the "right thing" really was the easiest option. I don't think that is how you help a horse to truly accept the bridle and bit, and am frustrated that this is the sort of thing that ends up with all trainers who look a bit "nh" being tarred with the same brush.
I have been around horses for most of my life, and had a lot of exposure to various trainers who are a bit different, including a spell as a Parelli student. I have seen horses put through harsh and unjust treatment, and been saddened to see that, in the end, it "worked". The clever people can explain the "science" behind why, but this knowledge leaves me completely certain that by now bridling Catwalk will simply not be an issue. For me though when I saw the harsh treatment doled under the guise of training, the price was too high, and there was something ethically wrong with treating a horse that way. I am not a fluffy bunny, and use pressure in my training, but would never allow anything like this to be done to one of my horses. The word "respect" gets bandied about a lot, by nh and more conventional people, but to me that should be a two-way street, and the way Catwalk was treated was disrespectful.
What I was saying was that, even though we may disagree strongly with treating horses this way, it works. Harsh methods often do, however wrong we may think that is.
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Bet what was seen at festival of the horse was nothing compared to the rest of the work done with him, hence the guarantee that the horse will now be easy to bridle. Fair comment tiny pony, but just don't call it passive!!!
 
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I know it's getting late, but I've re-read my post twice now and can't see that I've said anywhere that what Pat did was passive?? It wasn't, it was harsh and uncalled for imho.
 
LOL! I'm off to bed now, and when I come back I'm not going to post anything else on any of these threads. Enough is enough.
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Echo Bravo said:
Took him long enough to reply, perhaps he thinks he doesn't have to answer mere mortals. Are they going back soon and never coming back. And next time I'm at a horse show and Robert Whittaker is riding I'll hiss at him;););)
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not saying it was right or wrong on the length of time to "reply", nor that what I am to say here is factual, just a thought.

I want to offer this suggestion. while it is pat and linda that people intend to connect with when they call parelli head quarters, that is not who you will get. you will get parelli staff, who, btw, are absolutely fabulous. i have often seen, when they issue information that may cause a "stir" they do it on a friday night, after staff has gone home, or at least turned the ringer off. If I was the receptionist, I would be grateful for that!

I have no idea WHY it took 7 days to respond. maybe they wanted to get back to the states and take a nap. regardless of the fact that they brought all of this upon them selves, it no doubt was stressfull. and no one should issue a formal statement while exhausted, jet lagged, and potentially emotionaly distressed.

makes me wonder the conversations they have laying in bed, before their minds finally shut down enough to fall asleep. we often never picture people like Pat and Linda, as normal humans, in the light the light of husband and wife. while publicly I am sure they need to have the image of "never let 'em see you sweat", but I willing to bet they are a tight couple who support and lift each other up, even when they themselves don't agree. when you have your every move watched and recorded, I can imagine thier private life with alot of hugs, talking about how best to handle this. AGAIN.

I have made mistakes, and I have done things that others thought was a mistake. havn't YOU?

this is not mindless, brain washed drivvle, just a person noticing he is human. :cool:
 
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