Parelli statement in re: Catwalk

Fair comment but then he didn't exactly give the impression of any failure to deliver what he preaches in his statement. However, he did suggest his success and contribution to catwalks improved athletic performance and even ended the statement with keep it natural!!!! surely that would've been leave the bloody horse alone!!!
 
Tinypony said:
Can I make something crystal clear? Just because I have been told that Catwalk can now be bridled easily, it does not mean that I agree with what has been done to him. I think it was wrong, I think that it was unkind and based on incorrect "dominance" theories. I think that the most likely thing to happen as a result of the way the horse was treated was that he would have shut down, but if he isn't shut down he's learnt that the "wrong thing" really was difficult and the "right thing" really was the easiest option. I don't think that is how you help a horse to truly accept the bridle and bit, and am frustrated that this is the sort of thing that ends up with all trainers who look a bit "nh" being tarred with the same brush.
I have been around horses for most of my life, and had a lot of exposure to various trainers who are a bit different, including a spell as a Parelli student. I have seen horses put through harsh and unjust treatment, and been saddened to see that, in the end, it "worked". The clever people can explain the "science" behind why, but this knowledge leaves me completely certain that by now bridling Catwalk will simply not be an issue. For me though when I saw the harsh treatment doled under the guise of training, the price was too high, and there was something ethically wrong with treating a horse that way. I am not a fluffy bunny, and use pressure in my training, but would never allow anything like this to be done to one of my horses. The word "respect" gets bandied about a lot, by nh and more conventional people, but to me that should be a two-way street, and the way Catwalk was treated was disrespectful.
What I was saying was that, even though we may disagree strongly with treating horses this way, it works. Harsh methods often do, however wrong we may think that is.
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what makes you so sure your right about being bridled and they arnt just full of sh**
 
dont think people should state facts that they have only heard through other people ect,,why not wait and see as they might be setting themselves up for a big fall if it turns out to be false information thats all
 
"what makes you so sure your right about being bridled and they arnt just full of sh** "

I thought I explained that in my post, but I'll try again - personal experience. I don't expect anyone to believe something third-hand, but my experience would lead me to believe that Catwalk will be able to be bridled with no fuss by now.

Before anyone jumps on me as pro-Parelli, please read what I posted again...
 
tongue~n~cheek said:
I want to offer this suggestion. while it is pat and linda that people intend to connect with when they call parelli head quarters, that is not who you will get. you will get parelli staff, who, btw, are absolutely fabulous. i have often seen, when they issue information that may cause a "stir" they do it on a friday night, after staff has gone home, or at least turned the ringer off.
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This is very insightful TIC. Could it be time for them to turn the ringer off again and attend to some damage control. Very salient points have been raised on these forums and if heeded, the Parelli Machine has the chance to re-invent itself - bottom up approach. By not corralling their image and stars would be a good start. Dropping the commune cult image and not working on people's psyche would be another. Permitting their stars to watch and learn with whom they choose is yet another good idea. It's called CPD, over here, Continued Professional Development a very important part of any career. As demonstrated we can also learn what not to do by attending these events and well as what to do.

I sincerely hope that YOU personally will continue to offer, unconditionally, the free help and support, which you have given on this forum. (I don't mean the Cat/Pat Show he said she said stuff either, I mean the horse stuff). It has brought about stimulating responses, lively, informative and very helpful views. We are seeing that many methods work, some don't, and we are hearing good ideas. "What we are seeing is that horse sense appears to be common sense."

Is that a Patism, if not, one can't use it, it's mine!! Or start a new thread with it TIC and continue to stimulate others into sharing and offering horse help! I really enjoyed fbarton's post about working with a stallion too didn't you?
 
please read the "BHS statement " thread. A response from the BHS regarding their investigation into Parelli. Very interesting ! Thanks. sm x
 
Someone has been very kind and pm'd me to say that Catwalk is still not being bridled easily and I am misinformed. I guess sooner or later the truth will out. If that is the case though, it would be very worrying indeed, because it would indicate that all the hours of work had flooded the horse, with the result that the original problem was now worse.
 
Tiny pony thats very interesting and not at all a surprise!!! having tried to be clever and solve an issue in such a short space of time, for the sake of money and living up to image, pressure has been on to prove a point. Its not at all surprising what you say, providing its true, such seriously and deep rooted problematic horses are not "sorted" this quickley!!! As you obviously well no your self. The same program would probably need to be issued for months or even years by people the horse trusts to gain permanent trust. And even then with such problematic horses the original problem will never be totally eradicated in my experience.
 
Sorry, only had time to read the parelli statement, couldn't read the vets report, and only had time to read the first coupke of pages here.

However, I think it's obvious that I'll be echoing others when I say all I read was a crock of s***.

Same old same old, 'You are not worthy' tripe I was expecting.
 
Well, it's certainly an interesting response. And if he's read our thread, he's totally misunderstood the concerns.....
 
Just watched a clip on youtube of what happened and its no where near as bad as i thought it was going to be! especially after watching that horrific clip from the rodeo!!

here was another thing on youtube of the horse the next day..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j25pS6ixWk

put all this anguish into fighting actual horse cruelty! Ever watched someone try and load a horse its far far worse than this.
 
HollyP said:
Just watched a clip on youtube of what happened and its no where near as bad as i thought it was going to be! especially after watching that horrific clip from the rodeo!!

here was another thing on youtube of the horse the next day..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j25pS6ixWk

put all this anguish into fighting actual horse cruelty! Ever watched someone try and load a horse its far far worse than this.
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Nobody is saying there aren't worse things happening in the world, however that doesn't make what happened to Catwalk any better IMO.
 
Okay, so today I went to see a tall and athletic Arabian horse that won't let people put his bridle on. I worked with him for three sessions - an hour in the morning, quarter of an hour after lunch, and about five minutes before I went home. I used a combination of clicker training and desensitisation. End result - owner putting his bridle in 7 seconds. Not racing, not competing just he was asking for his bridle to go on and taking the bit from her with ease. Sadly, no DVD!!!
 
Personally I feel he was pressurized to do it in the allotted show time and lost his patience, everyone makes mistakes, there are much worse ways of treating horses that people turn a blind eye to everyday
 
He had a set time in which to do it for the show and he admitted that Catwalk was in the top 3 of the hardest horses he's ever had to train in his life.
 
This way might not be so thrilling to watch but it works and shows how subtle
horsemanship is when it works with no cowboys around.
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Mike Peace is excellent, totally agreed.. however. :)

Although not trained by Monty, for about 2 1/2 years Mike was Monty Roberts' rider at demos.

In 1996 he met Ray Hunt and says 'When I saw Ray work I was completely blown away by his approach...... It was like nothing I'd ever seen before. I was completely inspired.' He then went out to the US to learn from Ray and says 'this is where my learning went to a new level.'

Mike cites Ray as being where he first learnt how subtle this could be. Ray himself learned from Tom Dorrance. Not all cowboys are the same. ;)
 
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