Parelli.

I have my opinions re Parelli but judging the practice purely from people you meet on livery yards with who knows what level of experience or from YouTube videos posted by similar seems a bit like going to a low level unaffiliated show and pronouncing dressage is nothing but dreck.
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Just about every system has good and bad practitioners. The problem is it often takes a bit of experience to be able to judge accurately and experience if often what you get just after you need it.
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Tarr.. thankyou for you comments.. But im sorry if you failed to read the post correctly.. The initial post was referring to the practice of the the 'great' Pat Parelli.. So as much as you right.. you also talking crap.

Lou x

PS.. You often find better competitors at 'low level unaffiliated' who think they are NOT GOOD ENOUGH to compete at affiliated or feel threatened by affiliated competitiors.. than you do at an affiliated event.. where you often have mediocre horse and rider combinations competeing at a level there not capable of because they think there 'TO GOOD FOR UNAFFFILIATED'
 
I saw a parelli demo a couple of years ago at the local pony club camp (i was there as an instructor) and was horrified. Yes, very cleverly marketed with nice music, nice words, etc but some of it was dangerous, some hard on the horses and the rest a bit dubious. Teaching children to dangle great long ropes around their ponies feet is asking for trouble. Children are too young/inexperienced to get themselves out of the potential dangers this could cause. They also suggested that you need to remove the horses natural instinct completely. If you want to do this i think you should buy a robot. The whips in the face stuff wasnt great either.
 
" He was watching the Parelli lot trying to box a horse..." who was the trainer?
When people post about "xyz Parelli trainer, why not give their names? If you were talking about another trainer, Sylvia Loch for example you would, so please I'd really like to know who you are talking about. Only, some of the things you are describing aren't what is taught in Parelli, I'm not a student but I have been and understand it quite well.
"They also suggested that you need to remove the horses natural instinct completely."
That's so contrary to anything I've heard said in the organisation it makes me wonder who these people doing a demo were. So easy to say you're demo'ing Parelli, IH or whatever and not really know much about it at all.
By the way, I saw some stuff that horrified me in Parelli, some stuff that didn't horrify but I wouldn't do it, and some that impressed me. The whole thing was an interesting learning experience. I won't try to defend it because I know how my horses were, what we could do (and still can) and I was happy with that. It's all that matters.
 
Have only just seen this post.
I don't normally reply to threads like these but just wanted to add my 2 pence worth.
The only experience I have of the P word is a young lad that works for a P practitioner and he came to our yard one day when I was working my youngster. He informed me that my youngster clearly wasn't ready to be backed and he walked into the the pen and started to wave his arms madly above his head at my youngster who freaked and ran away (my youngster had at the time only had human contact for 3 months and is very nervous of sudden movements). He then said because of his reaction my youngster was clearly not ready and I should spent time desensitising him to everything so he will except everything with out moving. I replied that I would hate to have a horse that was that switched off it won't move when someone runs at it flapping their arms!
He then started to tell me I should send my youngster to his boss to back and that it would cost me £300 a week. When I said I couldn't afford it he told me to sell my car so I could!
He also couldn't work out why I was ROFLMAO and called it all circus tricks.
Shame really as he is a nice guy, just brain washed.
 
i am on a livery yard with a huge Parelli following and can see the good and bad points.

99% of them do not ride yet and are do not look likely to in the near future which i see as a strange thing.

some of the horses look downright miserable when being handled or 'worked' and also confused by what was being asked.

but there are a few who have progressed really well... one girl couldn't ride her ex-racer at all as it kept galloping off and running into things- she can now hack out calmly in just a halter.

i don't practise it at all and really don't see many benefits but i can't see the problem if people like to 'play' with their horses as long as they aren't causing stress or worry.

btw, i have seen the Parelli programmes on Horse & Country and find them horrifying- the bloke is a total tool and every horse without fail looks so depressed that i find it really upsetting to watch.
 
Even when I was a student, I'd have left the country before having a lesson with Pat. I saw him teach a group of people who were on their way to Level 3 once, and thought he was far too hard on the horses. He gets the results, but not the way I'd want to.
As with most horse training, there are a lot of people out there who think they know what they are doing and they don't. We have a lady on my yard, she isn't a Parelli student, she went on a couple of clinics with a very respected trainer last year and got a lot of help with her groundwork. (Things like her pony being bargy and her own ineffectiveness). I was watching the clinic, I know what she was taught, and she thinks that's what she's up to - no way!
 
I dont know names but the people came from the old parelli hq near tiverton in devon. The removing instinct comment was basically along the lines that they said it was the horses instinct that caused problems people didn't like e.g. spooking, not wanting to go in a trailer, etc. They suggested to train the horse to remove its natural flight instincts completely to make it easier in everyday situations. I totally agree, you take away what works for you. I just felt it was dangerous marketing to children who take things more black and white and arent experienced enough to work out the grey. I felt it was all marketing and not enough real horsemanship. Instinct is not always a bad thing, galloping and jumping cross country uses a horses natural instinct.
 
Don't you think the same applies to anything children watch adults doing? I regularly see adults doing stuff with horses that children could easily misinterpret and get into trouble. I wouldn't want a child to do most of what I saw in a Kelly Marks demo last year for that matter. There were plenty of children there,
 
I agree tinypony, children can misinterpret adults easily. But this demo had all the kids sitting around as a captive audience with the latest pop songs playing loudly and children appealing activities included. It really was great marketing, very clever. Very enticing for the kids to go off and practice parelli. Its just that the next day one such result was a pny with a rope burn on its leg.
 
I think in both cases - the Kelly Marks demo and your Parelli demo - there should be a few more "don't do this at home" warnings. Mind you... where are the adults when kids are wrapping ropes around their ponies legs?
 
Oooo don't start me on Parelli.

I recently went to a yard with my farrier who had ten "Parelli" trained horses to trim. Out of that number of horses trained via common sense I wouldn't expect, at worse, more than one or two to be difficult to trim / shoe. All ten of them kicked the crap out of him / climbed up the back of his legs / reared / ran off / wouldn't stand still!
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Having stood and watched that and one of the horses standing biting lumps our of her owners arms and been told "oh look, he's playing with me" I had to go and sit in the van! Barking, bonkers, barmy the lot of them!
 
tinypony, the opinion on this forum of Parrelli, unlike the one you usually frequent, is it's dangerous, disliked and followers are downright dilusional.

i have been around horses for 44 yrs....and i have to say tat this fad is truely one of the most frightening.
it leads complete novices into believing they are doing THE correct thing..

a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.
 
I'm not taking sides for or against parelli, but I would just like to make this point about why parelli horses always seem to be the badly behaved ones at yards etc - I think (and I'm sure you'll all tell me if you agree or not!!) that Parelli encourages people to just go out and buy a horse - no experience necessary. Parelli makes keeping horses seem so easy that anyone can do it. I remember watching a live your dream thing on h&c tv and this girl had always dreamed of having a horse, a black arab stallion in fact so she went out and bought one (ok so it wasn't black or stallion but hey) it was only on the way back from collecting said horse that she realsied she didn;t have anywhere to put it, no paddock, no stable, no livery had been arranged etc. Also, I think that parelli encourages people to take on very difficult horses because if you can talk horse language you can train even the worst horses can't you? Anyway what do you think?
 
Parelli like any other training method can generate thousands of negative responses. This comes about watching those that think they know what they are doing. (common in all equine disciplines)

Yes I follow Parelli but I am also open to other methods so I am not close minded. However what I don't do is attack.
If I see something I don't agree with I just don't do it...simple..

I have seen people who practice Parelli and cringe when I see what they are doing to their horse. They think they know it all and yes the horse takes the blunt of it.

Before anything is said I have seen just as bad and worse treatment of horses in the show ring, dressage ring and especially in Show Jumping and Eventing.

Yet at the same time I have seen horses go from being on the verge of being destroyed as classed as too dangerous to being a kind and willing horse through training from a good Parelli Instructor and horses treated with kindness and respect in the show ring etc.

I do agree Parelli is not about tying ropes around a horse to get it to lie down or trailer load, the person you watched doing this may call it Parelli but it is definately NOT.

At the same time I have seen horses whipped with pipes, lines, and other harsh objects when I worked in the racing industry and the men involved thought they had done a great thing in getting the horse loaded.

One interesting point, it is great to see the BHS taking on Natural Horsemanship and even releasing a book on it.

Cheers all

KS1
 
I guess at the end of the day it is each to their own and you have to do whatever works best for your horse and you. I don't think that hitting horses under any training method or for any reason is acceptable and I'm sure you all agree. Anyone who follows a method religiously is asking for trouble. There are cruel people involved in every area of equestrianism but there are also genuine people who truely do want the best for horses, and they can be misunderstood/interpreted.
 
I would agree it perhaps give people a false impression of how difficult and potentially dangerous rehabilitating horses can be, leading people to get in over their heads. Although, to be fair, most of the practitioners of these systems (not singling any one out) often do tell people they need to be careful, they just don't always want to hear it.

I think these systems also do tend to attract people who want easy, quick answers to difficult, long term situations. Again, this isn't necessarily what they're saying but some people only hear the bits they want. (The most obvious example is the "one day breaking" proponents. None of them actually claim it's the best way - it's theatre and "proof" of what can be done under OPTIMUM circumstances - or that the horse is ridable just because you can sit on it. But I hear people hold them up as examples all the time, clearly having heard none of the warnings or conditions.)

As far as the horses on the program looking "unhappy", I would agree. But then I might make the same claim for many even top level dressage horses and I've talked to lots of high level judges and trainers who feel similarly.

I am surprised how exercised people get about Pat. He's not my favourite on a personal or professional level and I think he's rather gone off the deep end but I'm not convinced he's the worst thing to happen to horses either.

Btw, as far as people not wanting to ride their horses, that's their choice, surely? It wouldn't be my choice and I hope anyone I help would either feel differently or come to feel differently during the process, but I'd rather see someone who didn't really want/feel confident (which can be changed but won't magically come right for everyone) to ride stay the heck off if only because that's a better situation for the horse!
 
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When people post about "xyz Parelli trainer, why not give their names?

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p.s. All these numpties you are watching doing demos, teaching, giving advice... unless they are on this list they aren't approved by Parelli to do so. http://www.parelli.com/content.faces?contentId=42
You can check all the qualified people all over the world there.

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1 Because naming xyz Parelli trainer probably equal some Parelli fan finding the thread, getting upset and making admin delete the thread.

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Pat Parelli might not be approved/qualified?! Better check the list Nailed!
 
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I'm open minded to everything, including Parelli training. I have the advantage of having been a Parelli studend for some years, and having some inside knowledge of how the organisation works. I don't really bother if people are anti Parelli (or anything else), I sometimes waste a bit of time trying to put another point of view, or maybe clear up a few misunderstandings. Personally, I took what I wanted from Parelli and moved on.
I think it's easy to get an unbalanced view based on what we see a few people do. If you spoke to my farrier, and the lady who now trims my lot, you would have a very different view. They both say how easy it is to trim "Parelli" horses (and then I say "I DON'T do Parelli!). My trimmer does the NH horses in an area all in one day, because she says they are so easy she can fit more in. So it's all perspective.
I've got to the point where I don't really take a lot of notice of what label people have applied to themselves and their horsemanship - unless they are the originator of course. I walk through a big livery yard near me regulary, and see daft people mucking horses about pretty much every time. None of them have rope halters on the horses, so how do we label them? And who do we blame for leading them astray?
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Sorry - you obviously don't know what Parelli is about at all - cruel it certianly is not. The two sticks you point out are not flexible like standard whips - they are fixed and the point is to create pressure on one side or other of the horse and make him move away from it. Parelli is absolutely non violent, it is maybe our perception from the 'normal' horse world that makes us see it that way. Read up on them and learn a little more, maybe they could teach you a thing or two !
 
Sorry - I was a Parelli student for years and even worked for them. I've probably attended more clinics than most here, and with a variety of horses. Don't generalise.
Hitting a horse on the face is hitting a horse on the face, it is not simply applying pressure. Many Parelli students stop and think before tapping or hitting their horses on the face with sticks, they are the ones that find that there are always alternatives to that.
p.s. I wouldn't label Parelli cruel, but it is certainly one of the more confrontational styles of natural horsemanship, as you will discover if you study a bit more widely.
 
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We have a lady on my yard, she isn't a Parelli student, she went on a couple of clinics with a very respected trainer last year and got a lot of help with her groundwork. (Things like her pony being bargy and her own ineffectiveness). I was watching the clinic, I know what she was taught, and she thinks that's what she's up to - no way!

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Interesting!

I happened upon this post by chance-I am actually the person Tinypony is writing about! I don't think this is where I'm up to at all. I came to horses late and want to learn as much as possible. Yes, I'm ineffective at times, but hey, I'm trying!

What a shame that someone who has had the privilege of having horses most of her life can be so spiteful about someone who is trying to make up for lost time!
 
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