Parelli's horse, Magic

Wagtail

Wagtail

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I was watching PP world tour on Horse and Country last night. His mare, Magic...she looks unhappy/distressed to me. What do you think?
 
Wagtail said:
I was watching PP world tour on Horse and Country last night. His mare, Magic...she looks unhappy/distressed to me. What do you think?
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I thought Magic had been officially retired?

But yes, I agree, I never particularly like the body language of Parelli'd horses. They seem to have a wariness and watchfullness which goes way beyond giving the handler their attention.
 
She's never looked the same since she left Phil Nye, her original trainer. I too thought she had been retired, she must be knocking on now. I've got her "progress report" video, and that was 2001.
 
I don't know how old the programme was. She may be retired now if it was old footage. I don't normally watch it, but I had 15 minutes to kill before putting the horses and dogs to bed. I just thought she looked distressed. Plus, I think he is way too heavy for her!
 
Tinypony - I assume you are a Phillip Nye fan? Havent met him , but know someone who went to his clinics in Taz in the long past days when he was a Parelli instructor. We have those original level 4 tapes - what a wonderful sympathetic rider! It broke his heart when magic taken from him , and of course he s never mentioned when PP uses her - you would think PP had doen all the re training!
I think she has been much over used in demos in the last decade, but hey, the show must go on to feed the PP 'machine.'
 
cornbrodolly said:
Tinypony - I assume you are a Phillip Nye fan? Havent met him , but know someone who went to his clinics in Taz in the long past days when he was a Parelli instructor. We have those original level 4 tapes - what a wonderful sympathetic rider! It broke his heart when magic taken from him , and of course he s never mentioned when PP uses her - you would think PP had doen all the re training!
I think she has been much over used in demos in the last decade, but hey, the show must go on to feed the PP 'machine.'
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I had no idea. I was under the impression that Magic was 'discovered' by PP as a nervous and withdrawn horse, and all her training was down to him. :rolleyes:
 
Magic is retired: the World Tour on H&C at the moment is at least a year old, if not more. The synopsis of one of the Birmingham legs is that it's Magic's last appearance in the UK before her retirement. Had no idea Pepperami wasn't wholly responsible for her rehabilitation, but am unfortunately not surprised.
 
Yes, I suppose you could say I'm a Philip Nye fan, or maybe he's someone I met and whose company I really enjoyed. I went to Australia to do some training with Steve Halfpenny several times, and while at his place was fortunate enough to be able to spectate Phil teaching. He's an intuitive horseman and an all round good bloke. He was a Parelli instructor back in the days when they were chosen for the skills they already had, rather than being trained up to a template. His teaching was so different that I once asked one of the senior Parelli people why he was still in the organisation, because Pat isn't always that tolerant of people who don't follow his pattern. I was told that Phil was one of a kind and Pat would never want to get rid of him. Shortly after Phil left of his own accord, along with many other instructors who wanted to develop their skills differently. I've got an invite to go and visit Phil and his wife Jenny at their place... but goodness knows if I'll ever be able to afford the trip to Aus again! In fact, he invited me because my OH is great at fixing things and he said that could come in handy round the farm. ;-))

So, Magic turned up at a clinic where Pat was teaching, he took her on and left her with Phil, who trained her (up to old PNH level 4 sort of level). Then, for whatever reason, Pat decided he wanted her back. At the end of one of Phil's videos there is a heartbreaking scene where he is riding her bareback and in a rope halter in a park, with the great ocean liner in the background that will take her away. Legend has it that Pat was working her at liberty in the arena practising for I think it was Equitana when she saw Phil outside and galloped towards him and tried to jump out... that might be legend of course, these tales do grow...

Phil doesn't really have a lot to say about the Magic thing himself. I think maybe he's secure enough in himself that he doesn't feel the need to have to comment. He's not interested in publicity, teaches rarely, and although he's doing breathtaking stuff with his big warmblood stallion he's not putting out any recordings of it. Sometimes a clip of him appears on You Tube, but he doesn't want that and the get taken down.

In my opinion, Roberts and Parelli aren't even on the same page as Phil. Even the wonderful Mark Rashid doesn't have the same instinctive way with horses, and the unquenchable sunny outlook that Phil shows whenever he is around them.

Pat definitely benefitted from taking a horse that had been trained to a high level by Phil when he took Magic back. That much is evidenced on videos that some of us still own.

More here http://itsaboutthehorse.myfastforum.org/sutra48524.php
 
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I always have a little weep when I get to the end of my video and she's about to go aboard. Whatever Phil thinks, I think it's a sad story. When I read Pat's book I was aghast that he could write about Magic without mentioning Phil once.
 
*shakes head* I haven't read the book, but was always under the impression that everything Magic was, was down to Pat.
 
I saw Magic's last appearance at Birmingham, and it was quite a moving experience.

What Tinypony has said about Philip Nye is true as far as I am aware.

Pat Parelli has taken on lots of horses over the years and given them to high level students and instructors within the program, to train and sort out. There is no doubt that most of these horses would have ended up in a can had it not been for the intervention.

I've watched Magic on numerous occasions and I'd say that she was the sort of horse who can change in an instant, I'm well aware of the techniques Pat Parelli is using to keep her calm and engaged during his demo's, and would go so far as to say that you need to be an exceptionally skilled horseman and rider to ride a horse like Magic.

Phillip Nye is probably one of the best horsemen in the world today, and definately hides his light. Whatever the relationship between him and Pat Parelli, only those two know what it is and where they stand with one another. I think Magic has done ok out of the situation.
 
Pale Rider said:
I saw Magic's last appearance at Birmingham, and it was quite a moving experience.

What Tinypony has said about Philip Nye is true as far as I am aware.

Pat Parelli has taken on lots of horses over the years and given them to high level students and instructors within the program, to train and sort out. There is no doubt that most of these horses would have ended up in a can had it not been for the intervention.

I've watched Magic on numerous occasions and I'd say that she was the sort of horse who can change in an instant, I'm well aware of the techniques Pat Parelli is using to keep her calm and engaged during his demo's, and would go so far as to say that you need to be an exceptionally skilled horseman and rider to ride a horse like Magic.
Phillip Nye is probably one of the best horsemen in the world today, and definately hides his light. Whatever the relationship between him and Pat Parelli, only those two know what it is and where they stand with one another. I think Magic has done ok out of the situation.
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I like this post :)
 
Pale Rider said:
Well, I m, not so sure. She has been PP s star horse for a decade - but it seems to me she has had a lot of pressure to perform heaped upon her during that time. Has she improved? I d say not , ridden in a much less sympathic way , heavy 'show off' rider in PP , not a great life at all.
I m so pleased we re not the only ones who know of Phillip Nye s name , and appreciate his way of working with horses. At our summer N H camps we show the level 4 videos of him , usually to gasps of delight and awe from our students!
PP wanted him to stay within the organisation , but he wouldnt. Apparently his clinics were a 'Zen' experience!Slow and quiet yet effective.
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cornbrodolly said:
Well, I m, not so sure. She has been PP s star horse for a decade - but it seems to me she has had a lot of pressure to perform heaped upon her during that time. Has she improved? I d say not , ridden in a much less sympathic way , heavy 'show off' rider in PP , not a great life at all.
I m so pleased we re not the only ones who know of Phillip Nye s name , and appreciate his way of working with horses. At our summer N H camps we show the level 4 videos of him , usually to gasps of delight and awe from our students!
PP wanted him to stay within the organisation , but he wouldnt. Apparently his clinics were a 'Zen' experience!Slow and quiet yet effective.
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She may or may not have been better off staying with Phillip Nye, but, she was Parelli's horse. You may have noticed that a lot of people who get to the level of Phillip Nye leave the Parelli outfit. The problem is that few actually get to this level, ever, and as you know the concept of doing less when you get the desired response until you only have to think about what you want, seems hard for people to grasp. People seem to think that being seen to control a horse which is 'difficult' to ride is some sort of achievement, training a difficult horse to look easy to ride is the achievement. Thats what Phillip Nye did for Magic. Personally I'm not too concerned about the personalities involved or trying to make cheap shots about these horsemen. When you cut all the crap away you can see how good these folk really are at this level, if you can't you've got the crap in your eye. Slow and quiet is great if the horse will allow that, but even Phillip Nye and Steve Halfpenny have had horses on their hind legs in training situations, it's the way it is at times. No one can be slower and more quietly effective than Parelli when its appropreate. I don't think that Phillip Nye would have worked with Parelli for as long as he did if he thought things were wrong. I like to look at them all and decide what I like and what I don't. This is something you have to work out for yourself, you cannot do it jumping on forum band waggons.
 
What I don't understand is why PP would choose not to acknowledge or mention Phillip Nye's contribution to her training?
 
Another here who was under the impression that PP had done all the work with Magic.
It was certainly portrayed in that manner during the World Tour commentary by, I think, Neil Pye. Certainly NEVER heard Philip Nye's name mentioned!
Dave Stuart is another one who was high in PP's estimation at one time, then they went their separate ways. He is a lovely, quiet horseman. Started my friend's 2 QH's and did a fab job with both.
 
I think I've been pretty careful about what I said about Pat P, Phil Nye and Magic. Phil has not a lot to say on the subject, although he will of course talk about Magic's story and her time with him. Pat appears to be "economical with the truth", which is his perogative. My personal opinion is that I think it's a shame to airbrush Phil's undeniable contribution to the mare's training from history. That this has happened is apparent from the number of Parelli students who think they know Magic's story, but have never heard the name Phillip Nye.
It is also my personal opinion that all in all of the coverage I have seen of Pat with her she has never looked as relaxed as she did with Phil. I also shed a tear at the end of the video as mentioned. But that's all just how I feel about it all personally, it makes me emotional, that's got nothing to do with what Phil thinks.
It's sort of wierd and lovely that the few bits of video footage of Phil Nye working with horses, including Magic, are treasured and shared by people. What a shame we can't see what he is doing now with his stallion, Steve tells me it is very different and quite amazing.
I drove round the country with Dave Stewart for a week once, that was great fun!
 
So Tinypony from your staunch defence of PP over the past few months, you now come out on this unknown trainer, from the sounds of it has more empathy with horses than his Holy Highness.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Echo Bravo said:
So Tinypony from your staunch defence of PP over the past few months, you now come out on this unknown trainer, from the sounds of it has more empathy with horses than his Holy Highness.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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Don't be daft, you obviously don't read my posts very carefully if you think I'm a staunch supporter of PP.
I chip in on Parelli threads sometimes to clarify things, or to contribute from my experience as an EX Parelli student (EX for many years...) but you'll search a long time in my previous posts to find any where I'm being his "staunch" defender. I'm a pretty strong critic of the Parelli system.
 
Naturally said:
That's a bit unfair EB. x
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I don't care about it being unfair Naturally, it isn't accurate.

Echo Brave, I've taken the time to copy and paste my reply to you last time you were having a dig at me about allegedly being a Parelli supporter. You didn't reply then, or produce any posts to support what you said, but here is my reply again:

"Trying to give a balanced view is very different to "sticking up" for someone. Unlike many here I have the advantage of knowing the Parelli system from long experience, and also from working for Parelli. I've met Pat and Linda and seen him work with horses many times. I've seen him behave in a way that I thought was terrible to a horse (and I walked out and made my feelings known), and I've also seen him act with great kindness and patience with another. Very contradictory to me. Pat and Linda aren't evil devil people, they think they are doing good. Unfortunately I and many others feel the approach is too coercive and can be abusive in some situations. However, as with most things, there is some good in there that you can pick out. So if it's wrong to mention those things as well as the bad, then I'm in the wrong.

However, I'd be interested if anyone can point me to a post where I am saying that Parelli is a good system and supporting that system, because if I could read that I'd wonder if my body had been taken over by aliens. "
 
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Echo Bravo said:
So Tinypony from your staunch defence of PP over the past few months, you now come out on this unknown trainer, from the sounds of it has more empathy with horses than his Holy Highness.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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:confused: I know very little about Parelli but I do know Tinypony is not a staunch defender. lol She has experience and knowledge of the system and PP himself, that isn't the same as being a defender. ;)

I must say TP you have obviously had some fascinating experiences and time with horse people that is enviable. :)
 
I've been very lucky amandap, and I'm grateful for that. I also have a tendency to empty my bank account and set off in the direction of interesting places, like Australia...
 
Tinypony said:
I don't care about it being unfair Naturally, it isn't accurate.
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I kinda intended inaccurate to be included in the description of unfair.

I should keep my nose out when people are disagreeing on this forum, it is a bad habit of mine to speak up as it is often not received well :o
 
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