(Part)Loan issues

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Mumofthree

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Looking for a bit of advice. I’ve got my gelding on part loan, I’m having a few issues and I’m after opinions on whether I’m been unreasonable. At the moment he’s only been cared for by the loanee on weekends, I do weekdays. I make sure everything’s available that he needs, clean tack and bedding etc. I’m coming down on a Monday to find my bed totally skipped out and replaced with about 3/4 bales of shavings used. It’s costing me £35 a week minimum in bedding that’s been used, Just by her. I top it up and take wet out as needed during the week aswell on top of what she does. She claims it’s soaked and the yard manager (who i will add is a busy body who takes advantage of someone a bit more of a novice then her) says she needs to completely skip it out too. The contribution I’m getting towards his care isn’t even covering the extra money she’s costing me. She’s gone from not been able to make a decent bed and me finding mess buried days later ending with me taking more out to skipping the entire thing out, I get how people do their beds is a personal thing and maybe I am been picky. With me not been there and not been consulted when there’s not enough bedding there (in her opinion) she’s borrowing bedding from the yard manager and mixing types of bedding, which I don’t normally do and then I owe it. There’s a few other snags if you like, for instance in my contract it states when she rides out he must have high vis on at a minimum, this isn’t happening, we hack out in windey country lanes to get to bridle paths so in my opinion it’s needed, Im unsure how to approach the situation or whether I’m been petty? Is there such a thing as part loaning not working out ?‍♀️
 
As a sharer I'm glad to be at a yard where hi viz is the norm. I would wear it anyway but if owner insisted on it, that would be fine by me. I think that would be a fair non negotiable.

Would it be worth being there at the same time as your sharer to do the bed together a few times? When I started my share I worried about making the bed clean versus taking out too much. As you say different owners do things differently. Maybe it would help to go at the same time just to see what's going on - maybe it is really soaked? Can't see any benefit to the sharer to say it is if it isn't.
 
It seems to be a novice thing taking all bedding out and starting again. There have been a couple of the yard who yo has had to “teach” how to muck out. They literally were taking everything out and starting again each day. So as said by others maybe be around and able to show her how you like your stable mucked out. Then state the rules again, hi viz to be worn and max 1 bale of shavings. If this dosnt happen then end the loan.
 
I don't think you are being picky, I would be irritated by this too, but if all other aspects are working I would give her a chance. Show her again how to do the bed and explain about the costs of bedding. Explain about high-viz, and just tell her honestly that lack of it puts her and your horse at risk, so it is non-negotiable. Be specific about what high viz she has to use.

If that doesn't solve the problem then I would end the arrangement and look for someone who suits you.

Good luck!
 
Not being picky!
Can you go up at the same time as her for a couple of visits and show her how to do the bed?
I know it defeats the point of having a sharer if you're there too but in the long run it sounds like it would be more beneficial.
It's absolutely not ok to be spending £35 a week on bedding.

However hacking out without hi vis would be a big no no and shows a significant lack of respect imho, that's a safety issue in my books.
If I really liked and needed the sharer I would try to overcome the bedding issue and give them one more chance on the hi vis but if they went out without it again they'd be gone. I would say make sure you have a reliable source for knowing about the hi vis though!
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
As a sharer I'm glad to be at a yard where hi viz is the norm. I would wear it anyway but if owner insisted on it, that would be fine by me. I think that would be a fair non negotiable.

Would it be worth being there at the same time as your sharer to do the bed together a few times? When I started my share I worried about making the bed clean versus taking out too much. As you say different owners do things differently. Maybe it would help to go at the same time just to see what's going on - maybe it is really soaked? Can't see any benefit to the sharer to say it is if it isn't.
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i make sure the bed is fine for the next few days with understanding some will need to be removed. I use a pellet base topped with shavings and it’s really simple to muck out however it’s got to the point where the whole bed has been removed, nothing saved. I deep bed him but not deep litter if that makes sense as I do remove what’s needed daily rather than just adding to it. So it shouldnt get completely saturated. I can’t understand how it’s never like that for me and that it’s always saturated for her. She’s never loaned before or owned so I do wonder if liked some have said it’s worth me showing her again. I wonder if she thinks it should look pretty all the time and in reality it doesn’t look perfectly white and Fresh every day ?‍♀️
 
Kamikaze said:
It seems to be a novice thing taking all bedding out and starting again. There have been a couple of the yard who yo has had to “teach” how to muck out. They literally were taking everything out and starting again each day. So as said by others maybe be around and able to show her how you like your stable mucked out. Then state the rules again, hi viz to be worn and max 1 bale of shavings. If this dosnt happen then end the loan.
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Im thinking you may be right, she hasn’t owned or loaned before and when she first came up to see how I did everything the bed was immaculate as I’d just redone it so I wonder if she thinks that’s how beds look but in reality their not perfectly white fluffy shavings 24/7.
 
Mumofthree said:
i make sure the bed is fine for the next few days with understanding some will need to be removed. I use a pellet base topped with shavings and it’s really simple to muck out however it’s got to the point where the whole bed has been removed, nothing saved. I deep bed him but not deep litter if that makes sense as I do remove what’s needed daily rather than just adding to it. So it shouldnt get completely saturated. I can’t understand how it’s never like that for me and that it’s always saturated for her. She’s never loaned before or owned so I do wonder if liked some have said it’s worth me showing her again. I wonder if she thinks it should look pretty all the time and in reality it doesn’t look perfectly white and Fresh every day ?‍♀️
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Might just be they're overcorrecting if lack of thoroughness was an issue before. I'd not take offence at being shown again. Especially if it meant less lugging bedding in and out! I'd never seen a pellet base before sharing and at first I found it hard to gauge how to get the wet out without taking too much out with it. I think I've got it now, not heard otherwise from owner so assuming she is happy with it.
 
chaps89 said:
Not being picky!
Can you go up at the same time as her for a couple of visits and show her how to do the bed?
I know it defeats the point of having a sharer if you're there too but in the long run it sounds like it would be more beneficial.
It's absolutely not ok to be spending £35 a week on bedding.

However hacking out without hi vis would be a big no no and shows a significant lack of respect imho, that's a safety issue in my books.
If I really liked and needed the sharer I would try to overcome the bedding issue and give them one more chance on the hi vis but if they went out without it again they'd be gone. I would say make sure you have a reliable source for knowing about the hi vis though!
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I did show her the first few times but the bed was immaculate as I’d just done a deep clean so I’m wondering if that’s how she thinks it should be when reality isn’t perfectly white fluffy shavings 24/7. She’s not owned or loaned before so I think we need a trip back to basics, I guess i just don’t want to come across as obsessive ?‍♀️ I will be having a chat about the high vis though as it invalidates his insurance, I only found out about the high vis thing when I saw a photo on her Facebook of her hacking out so at least I’ve got a reliable source I guess and not a fibber.
 
If we ignore the part about the sharer not wearing high viz for a moment, I get the feeling that she's trying to do what she thinks is right. She's torn between doing what the YM says and what she thinks you want. I think it would be a good idea to get together with her and demonstrate what you want.

The high viz thing I think can be emphasised at the same time, that it's really a non negotiable part of sharing your horse.
 
Lois Lame said:
If we ignore the part about the sharer not wearing high viz for a moment, I get the feeling that she's trying to do what she thinks is right. She's torn between doing what the YM says and what she thinks you want. I think it would be a good idea to get together with her and demonstrate what you want.

The high viz thing I think can be emphasised at the same time, that it's really a non negotiable part of sharing your horse.
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your right, I do think she’s wary of the fact it’s not her horse, she’s not doing it out of stupidity but I’ve always been open to her saying if you ever need advice or have a question message me and I’ll get straight back to you so I’m a little confused as to why she’s even involving the yard manager unless she thinks she’s been helpful by not bothering me. I just feel like I’m picking up the bill for someone when if it was them potentially paying for the bedding they’d be a little bit more savvy with it, if that makes sense.
 
Mumofthree said:
your right, I do think she’s wary of the fact it’s not her horse, she’s not doing it out of stupidity but I’ve always been open to her saying if you ever need advice or have a question message me and I’ll get straight back to you so I’m a little confused as to why she’s even involving the yard manager unless she thinks she’s been helpful by not bothering me. I just feel like I’m picking up the bill for someone when if it was them potentially paying for the bedding they’d be a little bit more savvy with it, if that makes sense.
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Yes, that all makes sense, but she might see you as a bit of an expert.

I have a name for this: The D_____ S____________ Principle, named after a boss I used to have. She was soooo knowledgable, so capable, so skilled, so accurate and so fast in all her doings that, when in her presence, I couldn't push a trolley straight.

And it's not always easy to ask a question of someone --- not as easy as it should be.
 
Could you perhaps mention the bed in a less direct way? Perhaps say something like “there’s a shortage of shavings at the moment and I don’t want to run out, could you try and preserve more when you skip out?”

When my share horse was on shavings his owner messaged me during COVID to let me know there was a (genuine) shortage of shavings and to try and take as little out as possible - now he’s on straw (comes within the livery bill) I can take out as much as I please!

We have never had the chat about high vis but I always wear it on the roads. If I saw a pic of someone on Facebook on my horse breaking rules I’d set I’d be furious!
 
3-4 bales or 3/4 of a bale? I use a bale a week, I certainly don’t change bedding, it causes the cob sallemders to flare up. Tell her, it’s your money she’s chucking away! Hi-vis is a non-negotiable thing. Either he’s kitted out for hacking, or she doesn’t hack, simple. This is your horse’s safety at risk.
 
If she has never owned or loaned before she probably has no idea how much bedding costs. Even if she helped at a riding school new bedding would have been on tap (and more likely to be straw I would guess). As a sharer it is really hard to know exactly how the owner wants things and if she has only seen a super clean bed she probably does think it should be like that. I think I would talk to her directly about the bed, point out the cost and say that although you appreciate her trying to do it so nicely it doesn’t have to look like that all the time. I would probably try and be there at the same time and do it together again. Even though you did this at the beginning she might have been anxious/overwhelmed and not taking everything in. About the high vis I would just say it invalidates the insurance and reiterate she must wear it or you can’t let her ride.
 
I would be very cross about the hi-viz! I would have been on the phone as soon as I saw the photo, asking wtf she thought she was doing risking my horse's life, hacking without it.
As for the bedding, I would tell her when she can put a new bag of shavings in the box, if she is there at the weekend, maybe one bag every Saturday, I would also tell her how much a bag costs and relate it to the amount she pays to share the horse.
 
I shared horses for years and would never put new bedding in unless I was asked to do so. I ended up being really good friends with all owners and even then, I wouldn’t assume it was ok to put fresh in (I would ask if the bed looked thin). I was also really open to get guidance on mucking out especially when the bedding was changed to something I wasn’t used to. Maybe go up one weekend for a refresher and make it clear that she should not put any fresh in?

The hi vis issue is a serious one. This is about the safety of your horse as well as invalidating your insurance. Agree with other posters, no hi vis, no hacking.
 
When i part-loaned, hacking without a hi-vis invalidated my contract with the owner, therefore meaning that if I ever didn't wear it (I always do) then the owner would have to refuse me coming to see the horse. Bedding was a difficult one, however If I wanted to put more bedding in than the owners allowance, i would buy it myself with my own money. You could always get her to sign a contract for hi-vis and bedding saying no more than x bales allowed. If shes taking out too much, i agree muck out with her a few times and advise her on how you do it :)
 
I think the solution here might be to leave on a Friday night with enough bed in the stable to last until Monday and tell the loaner that she is not to put any more in, and tell the yard owner that you will not pay for any bedding the loaner takes from them.

Your horse, your rules. (Ditto on the hi vis!)
 
I would be super cross about the hi vis and it would be one warning and then they're out.

The bedding i can sympathise, my sharer is the other way. It seems to take me twice as long to muck out the day after their day and one week when they did a few days in a row I had to get rid of almost the entire bed. I sent them a message about it and they completely ignored me so again, if it doesn't improve they'll be gone. Depends on your circumstances and how much you need the help/exercise/cash, for me it's about the convenience and if I'm spending longer tidying up after them and/or stressing about my horse on their day then it's not worth it.
 
It's taken me a couple of months to work out the best way of bedding my newbie down - we've now found it thanks to some advice on here mainly from milliepops (thanks mp!). I'm lucky that my sharer has been with us for a few years and we get on brilliantly so I've just been able to text her with "I'm trying it this way this week..."

If you're worried about approaching it, could you say you're trying to save some bedding as you're getting through it a bit quickly so you're trying it a bit differently and explain what you want even if it's actually not that different?
Could you get her to leave the wet completely alone (pellets under shavings should be fine for the weekend) and just remove the poo?

Since semi-deep-littering Charlie I've actually found that not disturbing the wet everyday actually keeps everything much neater. When it's fresh, it moves a bit and gets squelchy but once it clumps together it seems to just keep absorbing more. I only take the wet out once a week now and I've gone from using 3-4 bags of pellets a week to 1.
 
Mumofthree said:
i make sure the bed is fine for the next few days with understanding some will need to be removed. I use a pellet base topped with shavings and it’s really simple to muck out however it’s got to the point where the whole bed has been removed, nothing saved. I deep bed him but not deep litter if that makes sense as I do remove what’s needed daily rather than just adding to it. So it shouldnt get completely saturated. I can’t understand how it’s never like that for me and that it’s always saturated for her. She’s never loaned before or owned so I do wonder if liked some have said it’s worth me showing her again. I wonder if she thinks it should look pretty all the time and in reality it doesn’t look perfectly white and Fresh every day ?‍♀️
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How long is pony in on a weekend would be my first question. Next would be to ask her to show you how she mocks out. The high viz would be a major issue for me too.
 
My beds are bright fluffy shavings all the time I would never tolerate anything else.
I think you need to arrange to meet on a Saturday morning and show her exactly how you wish her to muckout , at the same time tell her if you hear again the horse has been out without the correct hi viz you will end the loan
 
While I can understand this is an absolute pain I can sympathise with the sharer. In my first share, I could never get the bed the way the owner wanted it, it was never enough so in the end I pretty much had to remove everything and put a fresh bed down every time. They would always come up and inspect after I'd been, I think I spent more time getting that stable perfect than anything else Everyone has their own preferences and its sooo difficult to convey how you want it over text/phone. I would either show them exactly how you want it or as others suggest tell them to use no bedding on their days. In terms of High Viz, is this yard pressure? I always felt on my first yard that everyone was waiting for me to do something wrong so I felt the need to try and fit in. Do the others on the yard wear High Viz? Its super important so they'll have to just get over it but I do wonder if there's more to it.
 
I think the bedding thing is tough- as others have said, if I muck out someone else's bed I always want it to be immaculate. It does sound like the YO could be taking advantage a bit too.

I think I would show her again how you want the bed mucked out, and as others have said give her a limit of what she's allowed to add at weekends. Explain how much it is costing you, because she may not realise! Tell the YO that you won't pay for any extra bedding too!

Hi-Vis, I would make it 100% clear it is non-negotiable, and if she hacks out without it again, you will end the share.
 
Part of being a sharer respecting the owners way of caring for their horse. Once you have a good relationship with the owner there may be room to negotiate but you have to get that relationship first. I’ve loaned horses where my idea of mucking out and the owners differ but I appreciate I don’t get the full bill. I do as the owner asks and with the one horse where I started to feel uncomfortable with the way he was being cared for I left.
 
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