Part loan with lami. Where do I stand? What would you do?

[Lisa2526]

Hi all. I'm fairly novice and after some advice please. At the beginning of April we started a part loan for our son. Unfortunately, after only 8 weeks of loaning, the pony has developed laminitis and is on box rest for at least a month. I suspect this will actually be much longer. I'm not sure where I stand, what is the norm in this situation? My son is desperate to ride but I can't afford lessons for him while we wait for the pony to be better, as well as pay for the part loan. We are more than happy to keep going and helping out, but my gut feeling is, it's unfair to continue paying when he can't even ride?.

Any views and advice welcome. Thank you

 

[Honey08]

Hmm. Well. Loaning (even part) is supposed to give you a feel of what it’s like to own a horse, which has its ups and downs. If you were part loaning my horse I’d give you a discount at the very least (I’d actually waive the fee), but they don’t have to. But I wouldn’t be overly impressed with someone that drops me and my horse the minute things were tough either.

 

[Lisa2526]

Hmm. Well. Loaning (even part) is supposed to give you a feel of what it’s like to own a horse, which has its ups and downs. If you were part loaning my horse I’d give you a discount at the very least (I’d actually waive the fee), but they don’t have to. But I wouldn’t be overly impressed with someone that drops me and my horse the minute things were tough either.

Thank you for replying. I have to agree. I don't want to dash of of there either. My son is quite attached to the pony and we love the yard and the people. I feel like it would be great if the owners offered a discount but if it's a short ish box rest (4-8 weeks) I'll just stick it out. If it's longer than that then I really can't see it continuing. I'm paying £120 a month to be allowed to muck out and feed three times a week right now. X

 

[SOS]

It depends on whether you want to teach your child the true cost of owning a horse - that they can have health issues and sometimes you can’t ride. Or that they are replaceable and you can walk away.

If I was loaning the horse and it had a short term illness then i would expect you the continue if you were serious long term loaners. After all part loaning normally is a nominal amount that not nearly covers the cost of horse ownership.

 

[I'm Dun]

When one of mine got lammi I immediately stopped charging my part loaner and took over all care. She was welcome to come whenever she wanted but it wasnt expected. Thats the benefit of a part loan. You can walk away.

 

[Tiddlypom]

When one of mine got lammi I immediately stopped charging my part loaner and took over all care. She was welcome to come whenever she wanted but it wasnt expected. Thats the benefit of a part loan. You can walk away.

That's what I'd expect, too,

You've only had the pony for a fairly short time, and now pony is off games for a while.

Why does the vet think that the pony has laminitis? Pony may need careful management (restricted grazing, medication) for the rest of its life.

 

[PSD]

It would be different if you’d loaned the horse longer I think. But with it being a short period of time I would walk away. Laminitis is a cruel disease and I wouldn’t want a child to see a pony going through recovery, it’s hard enough as an adult, but that’s my personal experience.

It’s likely it’ll go on longer than 6 weeks recovery wise and then not to mention the complete change of management thereafter. Have a chat with the owner, but if it were me I’d find another pony to loan.

 

[Red-1]

I would speak with the owner and explain. It is not ownership, it is a loan, so I would set out what you have said and offer to still help, but not pay. That seems reasonable.

If it is 4 months initial box rest, then it will be some time after walking in hand etc, limited turnout, highly likely to re-occur unless management changes... The pony will likely be out for any meaningful work for the whole summer.

If it had been something you had done to care an illness, then I would stay and pay. But it isn't, so I wouldn't.

 

[ycbm]

I'm a bit amazed that anyone thinks you should continue to play £120 a month to do chores for a pony on box rest with laminitis. You've only loaned it for a few weeks and it has an illness which is usually caused by allowing the pony to get too fat, which was not your fault.

My feeling is that the owner should be very grateful that you are still prepared to do the chores and would be completely taking the proverbial if they continue to charge you.

This loan is only 2 months in. I can imagine what we would all be writing on the "Ridiculous things you see on Facebook" thread if someone advertised for a share to do the chores for a laminitic pony that has just gone on box rest and wanted to be paid £120 a month for "letting" them do that.

Lisa it would cost me that much to pay a cover groom to do what you are doing, there is simply no way you should be paying them for the privilege.
.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

When one of mine got lammi I immediately stopped charging my part loaner and took over all care. She was welcome to come whenever she wanted but it wasnt expected. Thats the benefit of a part loan. You can walk away.

I did exactly the same. My pony, my fault he got laminitis albeit very mildly, therefore my responsibility. I have a second pony that sharer could have ridden had she wanted to but there was no way I was going to allow her to pay anything.

 

[windand rain]

My goodness I am happy my sharers keep my pony exercised and the only cost to them is their own insurance. I really do not get why it is deemed necessary for someone to pay to do you a favour especially if a child or young person is involved. Another sign of me being old I think. I do understand to a point in paying to loan a competition schoolmaster but even then the owner should pick up the tab for all care that is what horse ownership is. OP don't know where abouts you live but there will likely be a lot of people with smaller ponies that will be grateful just to have them exercised and a little help if they want. My current sharers are brilliant in that they pitch in to help pay for extras like weedklling the fields and fertiliser and will buy the odd bag of feed none of which is expected but very gratefully accepted

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

When my horse developed dermatitis so was on reduced work and a controlled exercise regime and daily washing, I didn't charge my sharer for any days he did because it was a relief to have a couple of days off. He offered to pay but I didn't take anything. He only pays for days where the horse is fit and available.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would speak to the owner, explain that as your priority has to be your child, you will be ending the part loan, so that you can afford to pay for lessons for him. I would also offer to continue to do chores if that would help her. If she says 'No', wish her and the pony well and walk away.

 

[Kat]

I think you should have a conversation with the owner, explain that you can't afford to pay for lessons and the share. As the aim is for your child to learn to ride you need to prioritise this.

If you and your child enjoy spending time with the pony and doing jobs you could offer to continue to do jobs and spend time with the pony on a regular basis if that would help the owner. They might be grateful of the help but they might want to end the relationship if they only share for the money.

Some people will say that you should commit to the pony in sickness and in health but you aren't the owner and one of the advantages of sharing is that you don't have the same long term commitment. Laminitis isn't something that will get better in a couple of weeks.

 

[Widgeon]

It depends on whether you want to teach your child the true cost of owning a horse - that they can have health issues and sometimes you can’t ride. Or that they are replaceable and you can walk away.

I think this is true with older children but if the son is quite little then he needs to be out having fun rather than having the sadness and boredom of a sick pony - I'd be inclined to agree with you, stick it out for the box rest and then if it's looking like the lami is a long term problem that isn't going to be (relatively) easily manageable, I would walk away for the sake of your son. If you do have to do that, you will have paid a couple of months' loan fees so (IMO) you've been more than fair to the owner. Has the pony had lami before? If yes then this should really have been disclosed to you, and explained if you are too novice to understand the implications (sorry, that sounds rude, I didn't mean it to).

TBH I am a little bit horrified that the owner is still expecting you to pay, in these circumstances - particularly for a child's pony. You'd be well within your rights to walk away now / offer to assist with care but stop paying, if you felt that was the best option for you and your son. Then you could afford for him to ride elsewhere.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Did the pony develop laminitis when it was in your care? Or did the laminitis already exist as an inherent condition? - in which case were you warned about the laminitis before you took the pony on as well as being given any warnings that you should heed about prevention and/or management of the condition??

If as an owner, I let my horse/pony go out on loan and within the first few months it had developed laminitis, I have to say that I would be very disturbed about it - and frankly not best pleased.

However - you do admit that you are a "bit of a novice" and probably didn't realise that little ponies turned out on grass in the springtime could be at risk! It doesn't take much for this condition to develop, and even experienced owners have been caught out this Spring due to the very dry April and then the sweet Spring grass growing up very quickly during May; vets and farriers both are saying that this has been a truly horrendous year for laminitis flare-ups.

I think you need to talk to the owner; both of you need to find a way forward for this pony, and if it was me as the owner I would want to take the pony back, primarily to ensure that the laminitis was being managed sufficiently.

I can totally see where you as the loanee are coming from; you are basically paying out for a pony that you currently cannot use and it has a condition which will affect its usefulness and possibly its ability to be ridden at all, end of, for a considerable while to come - and now the laminitis is present, it will always have to be watched and a management structure set in place to prevent future recurrence, and if you are the loanee then this responsibility (and costs for possibly remedial farriery and vets bills) will fall on you! Managing a laminitic is not easy and really IME is a task for an experienced owner and/or someone who is used to managing this condition; it is a total nightmare, and if the condition is unchecked and unmanaged - or if pedal rotation has taken place - there could be a sad outcome down the line.

Talk to the owner, it's all you can do at the moment; however I really feel there isn't any alternative but for you to say that you wish to discontinue the loan forthwith TBH and the pony goes back to the owner who will need to set up a plan for managing the laminitis forthwith.

Not a good outcome for all concerned I'm afraid, but I don't think you have any other choice.

 

[asmp]

My goodness I am happy my sharers keep my pony exercised and the only cost to them is their own insurance. I really do not get why it is deemed necessary for someone to pay to do you a favour especially if a child or young person is involved. Another sign of me being old I think. I do understand to a point in paying to loan a competition schoolmaster but even then the owner should pick up the tab for all care that is what horse ownership is. OP don't know where abouts you live but there will likely be a lot of people with smaller ponies that will be grateful just to have them exercised and a little help if they want. My current sharers are brilliant in that they pitch in to help pay for extras like weedklling the fields and fertiliser and will buy the odd bag of feed none of which is expected but very gratefully accepted

This amazes me too. I am happy for a friend‘s daughter to help exercise my horse to keep him active on the days I‘m working. In years gone by I’ve exercised people’s horses for free and had riders ride mine without any payment changing hands. There’s one on a local site at the moment asking for £250-£300 a month to ride a ’project‘ horse 3 or 4 times a week.

 

[asmp]

Did the pony develop laminitis when it was in your care? Or did the laminitis already exist as an inherent condition? - in which case were you warned about the laminitis before you took the pony on as well as being given any warnings that you should heed about prevention and/or management of the condition??

If as an owner, I let my horse/pony go out on loan and within the first few months it had developed laminitis, I have to say that I would be very disturbed about it - and frankly not best pleased.

However - you do admit that you are a "bit of a novice" and probably didn't realise that little ponies turned out on grass in the springtime could be at risk! It doesn't take much for this condition to develop, and even experienced owners have been caught out this Spring due to the very dry April and then the sweet Spring grass growing up very quickly during May; vets and farriers both are saying that this has been a truly horrendous year for laminitis flare-ups.

I think you need to talk to the owner; both of you need to find a way forward for this pony, and if it was me as the owner I would want to take the pony back, primarily to ensure that the laminitis was being managed sufficiently.

However I can see where you as the loanee are coming from; you are basically paying out for a pony that you currently cannot use and it has a condition which will affect its usefulness and possibly its ability to be ridden at all, for a considerable while to come - and now the laminitis is present, it will always have to be watched and a management structure set in place to prevent future recurrence. This is a task for an experienced owner and/or someone who is used to managing a laminitic; it is a total nightmare, and if the condition is unchecked and unmanaged - or if pedal rotation has taken place - there could be a sad outcome down the line.

Talk to the owner, it's all you can do at the moment; however I really feel there isn't any alternative but for you to say that you wish to discontinue the loan forthwith TBH.

I’m assuming that as it’s part loan, the pony is living with the owner?

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I’m assuming that as it’s part loan, the pony is living with the owner?

ahh right........ just shows how these old eyes don't read things properly!! Soohh, OK so then one would presume, yes?, that the pony is living with the owners and the mother & child are visiting to "part loan" it rather than it being somewhere else.

In which case the pony has developed the laminitis - OR there has been a recurrence of an existing laminitic condition - whilst being in the care of the OWNER - and that changes the whole picture considerably then doesn't it.

My feeling would be that - if this is the case - the loanee would be perfectly justified in walking away from the situation and ending the loan forthwith and this is what I would recommend she should do. Unfortunate for all, but no other option.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

If the pony is really suitable your needs ans a great mount, then I would talk to the owner and try to work something out. Get a better idea of what exactly is going on with the laminitis, and ask if you can restart after the pony is sound again. If the owner gets upset, or says no, then you have your answer. May be worth a chat before completely walking away.

That being said, if ride time is important to your kid and their are other options, end it and find another.

Kids do need an understanding that horses get ill, you can't always ride, and that's part of horses. So a good time to teach that lesson a bit.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Horrible situation for both you and the owner. Although I have always maintained vets insurance and taken on all responsibility for vet fees etc even when I had one out on full loan, just in case my horse would suffer from loanee not treating any issues that might arise quickly enough.

This owner possibly has not and seems to assume it is also still Ok to charge you for the loan although it is entirely possible the pony might not be rideable for months. I wonder was she aware it is a laminitic or is this the first time for the pony?

You have had the pony for a relatively short time, I would politely end the loan and start looking for something more suitable and less troublesome to care for. A laminitic pony is not ideal for a novice owner and child's first pony. It should be fun, this will not be fun as far as I can see.

 

[Melody Grey]

If the relationship with the owner is worth having, surely they’d understand if you needed to spend the money on lessons while the pony is off games. You can offer to return to paying as/ when/ if the pony comes back into work. I’d keep contributing to helping when you can inbetween though to preserve that relationship.

 

[ester]

part loan to me definitely = share and therefore pony kept by the owner and therefore isn't the responsibilty of the OP for care/situ or going forwards.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I wouldn't expect a sharer to pay the same money or any at all if I knew my horse would be out of work that long, I would speak to the owner and say you want your son to be able to have a lesson each week but can't afford it whilst you are paying that amount.

 

[Chianti]

Hi all. I'm fairly novice and after some advice please. At the beginning of April we started a part loan for our son. Unfortunately, after only 8 weeks of loaning, the pony has developed laminitis and is on box rest for at least a month. I suspect this will actually be much longer. I'm not sure where I stand, what is the norm in this situation? My son is desperate to ride but I can't afford lessons for him while we wait for the pony to be better, as well as pay for the part loan. We are more than happy to keep going and helping out, but my gut feeling is, it's unfair to continue paying when he can't even ride?.

Any views and advice welcome. Thank you

My pony had a new sharer start last December. He was diagnosed with ulcers in February so I immediately told her to stop making any payments. When he could be ridden again in March she made a payment to ride him. Unfortunately in early June he was rescoped and the ulcers had returned. This time the vet said he could be ridden in walk and I offered this to the sharer as a free option. She decided that she wanted to do more and gave up the share. We did have a contract and I could have asked her for a month's notice but didn't think that was fair in the circumstances.