Part loans and money

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horsey4life

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RANT. Why does everyone offering part loan insist on people paying money?? I can understand if you're genuinely struggling financially as people are these days, but if you just got another horse or are busy then why do they charge??? :S I don't understand why you'd turn down help just because they can't give money? I'm so sick of people saying "Well, I expect X amount of money" and I ask around if they need a hand but no one's interested, and I see so many people getting to do their friend's horse. I know it's better value for money than riding lessons and much more freedom and fun but still. I had a PL for nearly a year when I was better off and it really bled me dry. Sadly I gave her up after she had colic surgery as we agreed there's no point due to the lengthy recovery time.

I can't find a job to save my life and it is also pissing me off BIG STYLE. I hate it, it is infuriating. How are we supposed to gain experience if they won't give us a chance! Hence why I can't afford a loan.
 
Horses are expensive. Why should you expect to ride and have fun with one for free? The people that own my share horse aren't hard up, but I wouldn't ever have expected them to let me ride etc without a contribution.

Bexcy-bee x
 
bexcy-bee said:
Horses are expensive. Why should you expect to ride and have fun with one for free? The people that own my share horse aren't hard up, but I wouldn't ever have expected them to let me ride etc without a contribution.

Bexcy-bee x
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This, and I'd add that us horse owners are not put on this earth just to give you free experience. We've worked damn hard to get out horses and to keep them. I'm in the process of negotiating a part loan of Ben, I get to ride another liveries horse during the week for free, but that's her choice, she offered the horse and can't exercise it so I keep him ticking over. However, I'd already decided to part loan my horse out, my loaner will have the use of facilities at the yard, the opportunity to compete. I expect a contribution towards this. Why shouldn't I. I take great exception to individuals who expect to be able to enjoy all the benefits of owning a horse but without the financial obligations. These penny pinching owners, have to feed, care for their horses, insure them for themselves and loaners to ride, provide them with everything they need and you expect to turn up and jump on for quite literally a free ride?!

Personally, if the other livery at my yard had asked me to pay her to ride her horse, I would have declined, but that's because I wasn't looking for a horse to ride, I'm simply helping her keep his fitness up as a favor. However, if on the other hand someone with your attitude turned up to ride my horse (even if I was offering the loan for free) I'd tell you to jog on.


Why do you think the people who own horses owe you anything?

If you want experience, go and volunteer at a sanctuary, or try and get an apprentiship at a local riding school, be proactive instead of waiting to be given for free what we work our buts off for!
 
If I could find someone to ride my horses I would not charge, (am in Australia) but I can understand why people do charge, as it is expensive. However, I do not think they should continue to charge if the horse is unsound and cannot be ridden. That is a different thing altogether. A part share or financial contribution should be only while the horse is available to be ridden and should not take on the risks of ownership. IMO.
 
I can see both sides to this. I think there is quite a narrow margin between actually paying someone to exercise your horse and someone paying you to ride it. Guess it depends on the level of experience of both horse and rider. My friend part loans her horse for free as she needs the help of yard duties etc more than a financial contribution. Sometimes this has worked well but she's gone through a fair few sharers as people don't seem to take it as seriously as if there was money being exchanged.
 
Oh. My. God. Now, I'm usually quite a nice, unassuming person and I don't like to get on anyone's bad side but who do you think you are?!! Your post has really rattled my cage to be honest. What an ignorant person you are.

I would've been able to see both sides but quite honestly, your attitude stinks. I think there are certain ways to put things across and in my opinion, you've failed on that point.

I agree with everything Queenbee says.

I've got a few horses and they take up a lot of my time, money and energy. I've been messed around with sharers in the past so last winter 'I went at it alone', so to speak and I did find it difficult. Financially it is a struggle (completely self-inflicted as I choose to have a mini-herd) but I get by and I manage. My horses never go without and I can actually get them all done quite quickly on my own- I'm like a well-oiled machine!

Hay prices have gone up, insurance takes a lot out of me etc so yes, I admit to currently trying to part loan a couple of mine. The way I see it is although I'm coping, if someone can step in and help a little from a time and money POV then it's a little less weight on my back. And dammit, if I'm going to offer someone the chance to ride for a fraction of the costs of ownership (and let's be fair, riding lessons these days cost a lot more than they did years ago) and a fraction of the commitment, then yes, I do expect some sort of payment and comments like yours, OP, are quite honestly, downright infuriating. If you'd like to go out and find yourself a nice, safe allrounder that you know like the back of your hand - buy it and then be able to afford to keep it, be my guest.
It's not just about the helping with jobs, in fact, my sharers will be expected to fill nets, make feed and do the stable on their days and also PAY for the privilege (shock horror) just as we all do as horse owners.
 
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Kids are one thing, if you are a youngster i would imagine you would need an attitude adjustment and then perhaps someone will take you under their wing

As for adults.. I wouldnt expect anyone to pay if they were helping to get experience but would if they wanted to ride

I dont know who the magical 'they' are in your post but someone who helps you gain experience needs to take time out of their day to show you and hekp you with things, this isnt exactly time saving for them. If you can find a saint of an owner willing to help you progress may i suggest that you stand in front of them lobbing tenners in their direction and grab the opportunity with both hands

Yes there are people that take the mickey having several sharers and offering rubbish horses in return but a good and generous owner is a massive bonus

These things arent meant to replace regular lessons so the whole experience isnt likely tobe cheap but welcome to the horsey world
 
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As above, horses are expensive. Feed, bedding, hay prices, insurance etc are going up. If I had a horse and was going to get a sharer I would probably ask for a financial contribution too! How do you know the owner isn't struggling for money? Even if they weren't the money is usually of some help to go towards the upkeep costs of the horse. I would not let some stranger come and get a free ride on my horse that I have put in a lot of money for.

I have actually just taken on a share without a weekly financial contribution, because the owner just really wants a rider. However even then I am still expected to pay for the odd lesson on her, and I would probably offer part for shoes as I am the one using the horse!

Asking for a financial contribution also can help to separate those sharers that may take the mickey and not turn up etc.

If you want more experience can you not volunteer at a riding school, RDA, charity?
 
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Their horse, their business.

There are plenty of free shares if you're good enough. If you aren't, why exactly do you think an owner should give you free access to their expensive, fragile, pride and joy?
 
OP, remove the bag of chips off your shoulder.

Free share is different to part loan.
So, you are happy to ride, maybe do chores, but not pay for shoes/farrier on the animal you are using?
So much already posted above, but owners choice - you dont have to accept!
 
Sure, they might be able to afford multiple horses and so don't have time for them all, but why shouldn't they at least lessen their bill a bit? Just because they might be "rich" it doesn't mean they are happy to be spending lots of money they if they don't need to.

If you find a share you don't have to pay for, great. However I don't think you can call people selfish for not wanting to pay for you doing your hobby.
 
There's a big difference between someone wanting help with a few horses, in exchange for some riding - and offering a horse on loan or part loan.
 
I offered rides on my horse for free to keep him ticking over and no chores were involved. And everyone who was "experienced" and "knew their stuff" turned out not to be able to tack up unsupervised, couldn't be bothered to groom and quite frankly couldn't even ride. I had one fabulous lad for 6 months before he didn't have the time. I also had 2 "proper" part loaners... Neither of which paid on time, did chores or even turned up on their days. One decided to text me at 10pm at night to say she hadn't done Bud that day and was giving up the loan from now. So with people like that surely you can understand why we don't want to let our horses go out for free rides for someone who freely admits they need the experience? Go volunteer at a riding school like the rest of us did. Quite frankly I think this is just to get people riled up.
 
Echo what others have said - why should you expect to be able to use someone else's horse for free? I am a sharer and am happy to pay for the privilege. It shows my share horse's owner that I'm committed and helps towards his costs. My share horse is on full livery so I am able to just turn up and ride, and I would expect to pay less than I do if he was on part or DIY livery (although I would actually enjoy the mucking out, chores side of things anyway). But if I was an owner I would be pretty hacked off if I came across someone just wanting a free ride on my horse. There seems to be a very worrying culture at the moment of people wanting something for nothing.
 
Loans/shares are always a two way thing - with pro's and con's on both sides.
So there is no hard and fast rules as to what a sharer should contribute in terms of chores and/or payment.

That said, IMO, the amount of chores/payment expected is probably about directly proportional to the experience of the sharer for the average horse. A decent rider and horseperson could easily find a share/riding with no financial contribution and minimal chores.
 
Umbongo said:
Asking for a financial contribution also can help to separate those sharers that may take the mickey and not turn up etc.
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^^this^^

I ask for a token DD of £30 per month, which is hardly big bucks for a share, particularly when I'm quite happy for sharer's mum / friends etc to ride other ponies out with them.

Why? To get rid of piss-takers like OP, and ensure whoever I get involved with my horses has some kind of commitment to them.

Can't get over OP's presumption that having someone else involved is 'doing the owner a favour'. If you want to develop some new problems with your horse, the quickest way is to take on a sharer - particularly a novice.
 
I echo what most have said about this subject. I also note that the original poster got to walk away from her first loan/share as the horse had colic treatment so she couldn't ride. The owner couldn't walk away.....that's the big difference.

You have a big chip on your shoulder, no free riding & can't get a job. There are jobs out there, they may not be what you always want or at the pay level you want but there are jobs.
 
SatsumaGirl said:
It's not just about the helping with jobs, in fact, my sharers will be expected to fill nets, make feed and do the stable on their days and also PAY for the privilege (shock horror) just as we all do as horse owners.
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I like that side of things just as much as the riding in my share! All part of looking after the horse, isn't it?

I wouldn't feel morally right using a horse basically as my own without contributing anything. If you're helping keep a horse fit as a favour or are an absolutely amazing rider then fair enough, I can see how a contribution might not be needed, but in the vast majority of cases I don't see why you wouldn't be paying.

It's worth looking around to see if there are any exceptions to that though. OP, I used to live in your area and you aren't far from a few decent riding schools/yards. Have you asked around and left your details on noticeboards to see if anyone would like help? I imagine some people on DIY yards would welcome help over the winter months and might possibly negotiate on the money if you're reliable and helpful.
 
Theocat said:
Their horse, their business.

There are plenty of free shares if you're good enough. If you aren't, why exactly do you think an owner should give you free access to their expensive, fragile, pride and joy?
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This is my experience exactly.

I shared horses for many years whilst I was learning the ropes. Some were good and some were not so good but I still paid to share.

Many years later when I was more experienced I was getting offers to ride peoples horses, even without asking. People get to know you and how you ride.

I do understand your hangups about sharing and costs though. There are people who completley take advantage of your enthusiam and you end up paying to do their dirty work for them.

The best thing I ever did was get my own.
 
ihatework said:
Loans/shares are always a two way thing - with pro's and con's on both sides.
So there is no hard and fast rules as to what a sharer should contribute in terms of chores and/or payment.

That said, IMO, the amount of chores/payment expected is probably about directly proportional to the experience of the sharer for the average horse. A decent rider and horseperson could easily find a share/riding with no financial contribution and minimal chores.
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This. Both owner and sharer should get value from the arrangement.

If the sharer is very experienced and will be improving the horse, then quite possibly that is payment enough itself for the owner. Likewise if the sharer is competent and the owner is merely time poor, then the chores aspect may be enough to offer a free share.

But if the horse is nice and the sharer is less experienced, then why shouldn't they pay?

I do have an issue with the attitude of some owners who treat sharers almost as some kind of cash cow, to pay for their hobby but don't give them a good offering in return. But in this case I think your attitude sucks - anyone who owns a horse has to work hard to pay for them - why exactly should you be entitled to free riding when you're not prepared to put anything back in to the equation yourself?
 
I only ask a small nominal fee from my sharer. To me, finding a good person who works well with your horse is far more important than what goes in my pocket. People like them are like gold nuggets, you find one, you want to keep hold of them, even if it means making a sacrifice financially. I have such a person, and she has a heart of gold, my horse loves her, and i can see that through his work in the school as well.
The fee, or token, just helps to make the contract of share more real, and gives the sharer the feeling of being responsible for your horse.
Between the two of us, we're making a dressage horse out of my boy, I have regular lessons and she's just starting some refresher sessions with the same instructor so we're both reading the same book so to speak. It's been a painful year, as he's spent a lot of it poorly, and when she can't ride, I don't expect any money.
 
I'm sorry but this has annoyed me.
Because horses aren't free, why should the owners have to pay and you not, considering you are treating this horse like he is yours? Horses aren't cheap to keep either, and especially if yards like mine have a facility fee, why should we pay it and not you seeing as you're riding? I don't see riding schools giving out free lessons.
 
There are loads of free shares but they tend to either be someone who the owner trusts and doesnt want a stranger, someone who needs a lot of help or a nutter horse!
If it has to be free, why not advertise and see what you are offered.
I see no issue with people wanting a contribution, horses are expensive to keep.
 
i used to offer free shares but people who weren't paying seemed not to bother turning up it was 'too hot' too cold' 'too windy' 'too busy' blah blah.
I found a totally nominal sum of £20 a week (3 days inc travel to comps/ xc on a schoolmaster who'd do anything) that certainly didn't cover his costs just made people take it a bit more seriously.
If £20 a week in a massive amount of money - horses are not the right hobby for you - sorry but that's just the way it is
 
I used to pay towards the horse I had on part loan. Half for shoes and just under half of her stable bill each month. Horse was safe and lovely to ride. Worked out at about £20 per week, a lot less in summer.

I think it's quite rude of you to bad mouth people who want a financial contribution to their horses? IME people who pay are more likely to turn up than people who don't pay. Horses cost money (and lots of it) so why should you get to ride for free whilst I foot the bill for shoes and feed and a place to keep it when you can ride? I do hope you have an attitude change before you go and view any potential share horses. If you act like that in person I'd not be surprised if owners shoved you away with a 10ft barge pole!

However I don't agree with people charging to part loan a youngster. Lady at my farm (imo) takes advantage of a young girl desperate to be around horses - she mucks out/feeds/etc a youngster who has been backed this year. Ladys daughter has started riding the horse and the poor share girl doesn't get to even though she's been helping for over a year. So basically she pays to do chores. Ridiculous.
 
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horsey4life said:
RANT. Why does everyone offering part loan insist on people paying money?? I can understand if you're genuinely struggling financially as people are these days, but if you just got another horse or are busy then why do they charge??? :S I don't understand why you'd turn down help just because they can't give money? I'm so sick of people saying "Well, I expect X amount of money" and I ask around if they need a hand but no one's interested, and I see so many people getting to do their friend's horse. I know it's better value for money than riding lessons and much more freedom and fun but still. I had a PL for nearly a year when I was better off and it really bled me dry. Sadly I gave her up after she had colic surgery as we agreed there's no point due to the lengthy recovery time.

I can't find a job to save my life and it is also pissing me off BIG STYLE. I hate it, it is infuriating. How are we supposed to gain experience if they won't give us a chance! Hence why I can't afford a loan.
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Maybe to avoid people with a "life owes me" attitude?

Your hobby can wait until you have a job and can pay your way.
 
this did make me laught i was just about to post a thread the complete opposite! 'why do people who want to share expect a free ride?' :L

OP you need an attitude adjustment! Horses are expensive if you want to ride my horse the least you can do is contribute to the bed she sleeps on, the food she eats the shoes she wears and the roof over her head! the only exception to that would be if the rider was exceptional and they would be improving the horse, unlike alot of sharers.

but then i see it from the other point of view in that if you've never had a horse you cannot comprehend how much they acctually cost. so may not understand how much even a small donation can help ease that even if ever so slightly!
 
horsey4life said:
I don't understand why you'd turn down help just because they can't give money?QUOTE]

What is the "help"? I have two horses, and find riding two easy enough, and don't need help with that. What I need help with is the chores, because I'm on a DIY yard, or keeping them fit when I'm on holiday. So I can offer riding in return for that. But every time I do, and don't charge, I get messed around. People who are willing to pay for things are more likely to be reliable and have a good attitude.

Its very unrealistic to expect to be given a horse to ride for free because you are unemployed. You might be given a horse to ride for free if you are very lucky AND you are an exceptionally good rider, who can improve a horse, or who is an exceptionally reliable and nice person. But since on the cheapest DIY livery, doing everything myself, I cannot keep a horse for less than £250 a month including shoes, I can't for the life of me work out what "help" you are giving just by riding or bringing in a horse on the day/s you ride.

You could of course work in return for rides. Have you ever tried that?
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Polos Mum said:
i used to offer free shares but people who weren't paying seemed not to bother turning up it was 'too hot' too cold' 'too windy' 'too busy' blah blah.
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Last week typical example of this for me. Two lovely girls wanted to share, they had come up 3 weeks in a row, one day, and I had shown them the ropes and they had ridden, not much to be done as no mucking out yet and quicker to do all the waters, haylage, etc myself while they rode. They had to be supervised as not experienced enough to ride alone, and anyway, that's what you have to do when a new person is riding your horse for the first few weeks. Last week no word from them so I texted them on the day they were due out, only to be told they were too busy that day. So I had to rearrange my schedule for that day so that both horses were exercised.

That's more inconvenient to me than doing everything on my own! I've ended up providing free riding for two people and running around after them doing the horses while they ride! And I'm not unconvinced the cancellation wasn't due to me asking them to clean the tack after riding the previous week!

And I was offering free riding on two beautifully well schooled quality horses, in return for help on those days and occasionally coming to shows with me.

Previous sharer was similar, didn't come up if it rained, or a new washing machine was being delivered, or horse had lost a shoe and no riding or had been out the previous night and had a hangover...
 
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