Part loans and money

pwood2457 said:
Hi I've read all the above posts with interest as I'm not sure what category I fit into... I am a largeish bloke 6'2" and 16stone and have been looking to learn to ride and look after horses for a couple of years. I have emailed all the local riding schools (and some not to local) asking if they would teach me, explaining size, weight and age (late 40s) a couple got back to me say they could not help most did not bother answering. Early this year I tracked down a lady who had several large horses, I emailed her and explained the situation, she asked me up and showed me round. She offered to teach me to ride and how to look after horses, and gave me a price per riding lesson. At this point I discovered I love horses, being around them, riding them, grooming them, in fact I don't mind what work I do around them. I can only finish work early 1 day a week, most of the time, occasionly twice but that's it, I leave for work at 6 in the morning get home for 7 that night so I can't buy my own horse it would not be right. On my early finish I get to the stable an hour may be an hour and a half before the owner so I go down to the fields and poo pick, in that time I normally clear 3 out of the 4 fields. I then come back to the stables and in the summer put the horses out, in the winter bring them in, I restock the stalls with hay and do whatever job I know I can do. The owner arrives and if she has time she will give me a lesson if not I will ride around the school, however as I do these job she no longer charges me any money. I can afford to pay and would do happly if required.
So if I read this right I should be paying for this privalidge? I am very reliable and have always turned up (and work my ass off), I don't always get a ride as the owner is so busy (I don't complain). The only downside is recently a couple of others have started coming to the stables and they know a lot more than I do about horses so tend to take over, they do the nice jobs with the horses I get to poo pick.
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The difference here is that you haven't come onto the forum purely to rant and rave in a temper about how you aren't being given expensive things for free. You are at least helping out (significantly by the sounds of it) whereas the OP was, plain and simply, a complete brat who seems to think someone would be grateful for him/her riding their horse for no contribution at all.
 
I let a girl free share CM for a short while. It didn't work out and I wouldn't do it again, so I can see why people ask for a small amount of cash each week. I didn't need a sharer at all and only tried it to be kind to the girl in question as I remember what it's like to be unable to afford a horse but so desperately want one.
 
I've been very lucky in that out of the four shares I've had, three of them have been free. The first I had I was happy to pay as he was a schoolmaster and taught me a huge amount but I still had to do all stable duties on the days I rode, morning and evening, just as you would if you owned your own.

The second and third were more green horses, needed a bit of schooling and general exercise where their owners didn't have the time, one working full time, the other off to uni.

My current share I originally didn't pay for but now I pay half of his shoes as his owner is struggling a little with money but if I could afford it myself I'd pay all of his shoes and more.

I treat every horse I own as if they were my own, I never expect someone to give me a horse to ride just because I want it. I am privileged to be allowed to ride these horses, they are someones pride and joy and to let a stranger get on them often unsupervised is a huge undertaking. Paying money just shows how keen and genuine you are, not that you just won't show up one day.

I don't know why you would expect someone to let you ride their horse for free. You'd have to pay at a riding school for lessons, or to 'hire' a horse, why should a share be any different?
 
Tapir said:
The key word there is ownership. The sharer doesn't own the horse, they generally have no say in feed/management/shoeing/yard/tack etc and have chosen, for whatever reason, not to own their own.

It depends on why people want a sharer, can they not afford a horse without? Or do they want the odd break from having to see to the horse twice a day, everyday.

If they are reliant on a sharer's financial contribution I would be very concerned. However, many people would like an evening a week where they could do something else without having to worry about fitting in their horse. This person would either have to pay someone to see to their horse, or swap chores for riding.

I'm clearly not the only person who thinks this way as I've never had any problem finding free shares in the past.
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Whatever works :) The general trend appears to be for owners to ask for contributions and sharers to pay. I'm sure there are plenty that don't have any money involved but that doesn't seem to be the norm, which is why I suggested that the OP may need to be a bit more proactive about looking for one/offering her services. If she's waiting for a free share/part loan ad to come up then she may be waiting a long time!

My share horse might not be mine but I treat him as such on the days I care for him and my opinion is definitely sought by his owner :) Whether that's the norm or not, I don't know. Just my experience so far!
 
Hahahahaha what judgemental tossers most of these people are!!! For your information, I may be young but I am experienced and have recieved plenty of compliments on my riding and was one of the few riders my last owner trusted to do my PL mare as she was a handful. I am NOT a lazy joyrider, I loved her as if she were mine and didn't mind not riding every time I went to the yard twice a week (and I NEVER missed a day apart from genuine illness). I was happy to free school/lunge her if we couldn't ride. I have helped at yards and RDA in the past but I prefer to focus on a horse and get to know them. And the owner dismissed me after the surgery as she felt it wasn't fair on me, and that it was easier to keep the recovery process with the family, but I would still have done her jobs if they needed me.

I mean unhorsey people are baffled by the fact you have to pay (I usually stick up for the fact you have to pay). I just find it strange that they continue to struggle on looking for a loan when I would happily put them over with work in exchange for rides, but they refuse because I can't (literally cant) help financially. Where I go it is common practice for people to do the horse and ride it to save the owner time so I don't get the sheer outrage of everyone. In the past people have let me help (manual jobs) for free, and anyway did I at any time specify JUST riding?
 
horsey4life said:
Hahahahaha what judgemental tossers most of these people are!!! For your information, I may be young but I am experienced and have recieved plenty of compliments on my riding and was one of the few riders my last owner trusted to do my PL mare as she was a handful. I am NOT a lazy joyrider, I loved her as if she were mine and didn't mind not riding every time I went to the yard twice a week (and I NEVER missed a day apart from genuine illness). I was happy to free school/lunge her if we couldn't ride. I have helped at yards and RDA in the past but I prefer to focus on a horse and get to know them. And the owner dismissed me after the surgery as she felt it wasn't fair on me, and that it was easier to keep the recovery process with the family, but I would still have done her jobs if they needed me.

I mean unhorsey people are baffled by the fact you have to pay (I usually stick up for the fact you have to pay). I just find it strange that they continue to struggle on looking for a loan when I would happily put them over with work in exchange for rides, but they refuse because I can't (literally cant) help financially. Where I go it is common practice for people to do the horse and ride it to save the owner time so I don't get the sheer outrage of everyone. In the past people have let me help (manual jobs) for free, and anyway did I at any time specify JUST riding?
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Maybe you should proof read your original post and you may see why people came to the conclusion they did.

Food for thought maybe
 
horsey4life said:
Hahahahaha what judgemental tossers most of these people are!!! For your information, I may be young but I am experienced and have recieved plenty of compliments on my riding and was one of the few riders my last owner trusted to do my PL mare as she was a handful. I am NOT a lazy joyrider, I loved her as if she were mine and didn't mind not riding every time I went to the yard twice a week (and I NEVER missed a day apart from genuine illness). I was happy to free school/lunge her if we couldn't ride. I have helped at yards and RDA in the past but I prefer to focus on a horse and get to know them. And the owner dismissed me after the surgery as she felt it wasn't fair on me, and that it was easier to keep the recovery process with the family, but I would still have done her jobs if they needed me.

I mean unhorsey people are baffled by the fact you have to pay (I usually stick up for the fact you have to pay). I just find it strange that they continue to struggle on looking for a loan when I would happily put them over with work in exchange for rides, but they refuse because I can't (literally cant) help financially. Where I go it is common practice for people to do the horse and ride it to save the owner time so I don't get the sheer outrage of everyone. In the past people have let me help (manual jobs) for free, and anyway did I at any time specify JUST riding?
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I don't think calling most of us 'judgemental tossers' is going to help your case ..

I think the 'sheer outrage' is your attitude (which is backed up by your most recent reply). Free shares are out there but I think you need a serious attitude adjustment before you do anything. Even now you sound spoilt and very 'me me me'
 
horsey4life said:
Hahahahaha what judgemental tossers most of these people are!!! For your information, I may be young but I am experienced and have recieved plenty of compliments on my riding and was one of the few riders my last owner trusted to do my PL mare as she was a handful. I am NOT a lazy joyrider, I loved her as if she were mine and didn't mind not riding every time I went to the yard twice a week (and I NEVER missed a day apart from genuine illness). I was happy to free school/lunge her if we couldn't ride. I have helped at yards and RDA in the past but I prefer to focus on a horse and get to know them. And the owner dismissed me after the surgery as she felt it wasn't fair on me, and that it was easier to keep the recovery process with the family, but I would still have done her jobs if they needed me.

I mean unhorsey people are baffled by the fact you have to pay (I usually stick up for the fact you have to pay). I just find it strange that they continue to struggle on looking for a loan when I would happily put them over with work in exchange for rides, but they refuse because I can't (literally cant) help financially. Where I go it is common practice for people to do the horse and ride it to save the owner time so I don't get the sheer outrage of everyone. In the past people have let me help (manual jobs) for free, and anyway did I at any time specify JUST riding?
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If you're that good a rider OP I'm sure it won't be long before you get the free ride you want. Perhaps your previous owner could write you a reference as to your reliability, experience and ability?
 
horsey4life said:
Hahahahaha what judgemental tossers most of these people are!!! For your information, I may be young but I am experienced and have recieved plenty of compliments on my riding and was one of the few riders my last owner trusted to do my PL mare as she was a handful. I am NOT a lazy joyrider, I loved her as if she were mine and didn't mind not riding every time I went to the yard twice a week (and I NEVER missed a day apart from genuine illness). I was happy to free school/lunge her if we couldn't ride. I have helped at yards and RDA in the past but I prefer to focus on a horse and get to know them. And the owner dismissed me after the surgery as she felt it wasn't fair on me, and that it was easier to keep the recovery process with the family, but I would still have done her jobs if they needed me.

I mean unhorsey people are baffled by the fact you have to pay (I usually stick up for the fact you have to pay). I just find it strange that they continue to struggle on looking for a loan when I would happily put them over with work in exchange for rides, but they refuse because I can't (literally cant) help financially. Where I go it is common practice for people to do the horse and ride it to save the owner time so I don't get the sheer outrage of everyone. In the past people have let me help (manual jobs) for free, and anyway did I at any time specify JUST riding?
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OP, when in a hole, you would be well advised to stop digging. You're not giving a good account of yourself by your attitude.

You seem to have plenty of time, and if you're able to work hard, as you say, might I suggest that you focus your efforts on getting a job. When you've bought your own horse, and work day and night to keep it, perhaps you will understand.

Seriously, get a job. It will help to sort out your attitude.
 
horsey4life said:
Hahahahaha what judgemental tossers most of these people are!!! For your information, I may be young but I am experienced and have recieved plenty of compliments on my riding and was one of the few riders my last owner trusted to do my PL mare as she was a handful. I am NOT a lazy joyrider, I loved her as if she were mine and didn't mind not riding every time I went to the yard twice a week (and I NEVER missed a day apart from genuine illness). I was happy to free school/lunge her if we couldn't ride. I have helped at yards and RDA in the past but I prefer to focus on a horse and get to know them. And the owner dismissed me after the surgery as she felt it wasn't fair on me, and that it was easier to keep the recovery process with the family, but I would still have done her jobs if they needed me.

I mean unhorsey people are baffled by the fact you have to pay (I usually stick up for the fact you have to pay). I just find it strange that they continue to struggle on looking for a loan when I would happily put them over with work in exchange for rides, but they refuse because I can't (literally cant) help financially. Where I go it is common practice for people to do the horse and ride it to save the owner time so I don't get the sheer outrage of everyone. In the past people have let me help (manual jobs) for free, and anyway did I at any time specify JUST riding?
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There are owners out there who have people ride in exchange for yard jobs with no financial contribution, myself included and I have a lovely girl who rides my mare and I don't charge her for it.

It's your attitude that most people have taken offence to, may I ask why your think you have a god given right to be allowed to ride people's horses for free? At the end of the day, it's the owners prerogative, and if you own in the future it will be your prerogative. However, I wouldn't be easy letting someone with your attitude around my horse, she's my pride and joy, and it's my choice of who I allow to ride her, and what she does work wise.
 
OP for my own comments I did say I wasn't assuming you were like that.
I hope that you do find your free arrangement, for the right person I guess I would consider it but only if I didn't have to listen to them criticise every decision I made about the horse, slag me off to fellow liveries and generally be demanding
 
I understand some people use it to to make money.
The costs should go towards the horse.
If an owner can't afford a horse without a sharer then they should've have one.

But on the other hand why shouldnt the sharer pay?
They have use of a horse that costs money to keep.
Lessons aren't free so why should sharing?

Although i understand whay you are saying about if its just a time restraint the owner has then any help is better than no help.


Put up adverts, be clear on your experiences, dont sound desperate and that you want sonething for free.
Just that your financial situation meana you currently can not contribute.

Maybe just helping and not riding so you get to spends with horses may work?
Or offer to help at a riding school etc.


Another thing, i know the resession and bad econanmy means there arnt so many jobs around but its christmas coming.
Shops need staff, saying you cant find a job will just make people think you can't be bothered.
There always jobs out there.
It might not be the job you want but its a job and you will earn money!
 
Tapir said:
All of the owners who are scandalized by this post, I have a question for you.

If you wanted a day, morning, evening, weekend off doing your horse, would you have to pay someone to bring in, muck out, change rugs, exercise etc?

If so, surely a sharer doing all that should expect to ride in return with no money changing hands in either direction. You get your chores done, the sharer gets to ride.

Comparing the situation to a riding school is silly. At a riding school I'd get tuition and wouldn't have any chores to do. Neither are their any jobs involved with a car as far as I'm aware.

I've had several shares over the years and have never paid a penny for any of them.

If I couldn't afford my horse without the income from a sharer then I wouldn't't have one.

Also, I wonder if people with sharers who contribute financially are declaring their extra income to HMRC
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I want mornings off... I pay my yard owner to do this. My sharer has two horses of her own but wants something bigger to ride and compete, Surely she should contribute towards getting what she wants?
 
From my experience - people that don't pay take the p**s. I had a gorgeous competition mare I loaned to someone I thought I could trust for free whilst I was at uni, she was on full livery and the only thing the loaner had to pay for was her shoes. Taking her to uni with me was not an option. However, I came back from Uni at Xmas to find she hadn't had her shod since I did it in September before I left for uni! Despite her emailing me telling me about all these amazing rides she'd taken her on, the YO told me she hardly came to ride her at all. Needless to say I terminated the loan and sold my mare to someone who looked after her the way she deserved.

I find that someone is more than happy to waste your time and money, however they think twice about wasting their own. Like the other posters have said, riding lessons cost a fortune so for someone to loan you a horse for a month for a fraction of the cost of a weekly riding lesson then I don't know how you can complain. You wouldn't expect a car dealership not to charge you for a car 'just because you'd look after it' would you? Not the same I know, but the same prinicple.

OP you might find the rare person that will offer you their pride and joy for free on loan (like I did once upon a time), but mess them about just that once and you'll be out on your a*se before you even know what's coming! I would have loved for my loaner to work out with my mare but she was a complete let down, it just put me off for a lifetime and I know that's a shame because there are a few geunine people out there that will do as promised and just can't afford to pay (this sounds like you). It just takers a horse owner a lot to take that step but they are out there if you're willing to treat the horse as your own and look after it.
 
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Tapir said:
A horse share where there are no chores involved is quite different to those who expect a sharer to take responsibility for looking after the horse on their days AND pay. Riding in return for payment (as at a riding school or full livery horse), or chores in exchange for riding
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I do not completely agree, To many people, it's not just the riding that they want, they want to take part in the care element, to behave as if the horse was their own.
 
If you are that good OP you wouldnt be having a problem finding what you want without having to pay

Personally I think you sound like a nightmare and I wouldnt have you near my ponies
 
It might be the way you come across to people OP. A lot of people are wary of offering free shares because it tends to attract people who mess you around, or don't pull their weight with the chores. A financial contribution tends to sort the wheat from the chaff. ie if someone is bothered to pay for something, they are more likely to turn up when they say they will.

I honestly find it far less helpful than doing everything on my own than having a sharer who is unreliable and cancels at short notice. At least when it is just yourself, you can plan ahead for the week. And you don't run the risk of someone who is a less experienced rider than you damaging your horse's way of going.

Plus - a very basic point. As I have two horses, I tend to ride them for 30 minutes each 4- 5 times a week. Sharers tend to ride far more than this and want to do long hacks, which is fine, but for a big horse whose shoes only last him a few weeks, this can actually mean me needing to get that horse shod 2 weeks earlier than if I do my riding only. So he costs me £80 every 6 weeks but that becomes 50% more if I have to get him shod for a sharer to ride for longer. Which is £40 in extra costs for me, not taking into account any additional feed. Not all horses will be like this of course, but then not all horses offered for share are well schooled and bombproof non-spooky hacks.

I did have a sharer once who was very good. Because she was only 14 when she first started, she actually thought about this and got the woman who she helped out with her horses to phone me, in order to give a better first impression. And she had spent several years helping out someone who could offer little riding, and wanted to progress to a share on a schoolmaster type, because she was aware of her own limitations. She was totally reliable, paid a standard amount, and when the time came a few years later for me to sell that horse, decided to buy her! And still has her to this day.

Sadly, I've never been able to find a sharer like that since.
 
OP I stuck up for you before, however having read your last post I agree with the others - I think your attitude is the problem I'm afraid. You seem to have exploded all over this thread instead of just calmly explaining things to everyone, that's enough to put any horse owner off wanting you to loan their horses. You come across as hard to reason with and don't seem to take criticism well at all. Not a great combination when dealing with horses, especially someone else's horses. Sorry but it's the way you come across.
 
I can sort of see your point a bit in the way that some people have no facilities, low costs and don't ride the horse themselves and then expect you to pay them £100 a month to fitten it up and reschool it for them... I suppose those that might see the horse more as a money making item. Like I have seen a dealers near us who offers shares to stay at the yard for £35 a week, basically doing their daily riding for them and they will sell it as soon as a buyer turns up....
But then again if you were to have one of your own or ride at a school it would cost you a lot more.

A free part loan I would expect the horse to most likely need bringing into fitness and to be doing a lot of chores, buying the odd bit of feed ect. They do exist though, usually temporary though
 
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I've probably got a different perspecitve as I am both a sharer and a sharee. 5 years ago my horse developed foot problems which mean he no longer jumps. At the same time, my best friend got pregnant with her eldest and didn't know what to do with her boy as he's a horse of a lifetime. She was desperate not to sell him, I still wanted to compete so it worked for both of us and 5 years later it still does. I pay for his shoes and insurance (both costs that are greater for me riding him, so why wouldn't I pay those) she pays for his everyday care. I do the bulk of caring as I'm there doing my boy anyway.

I've found a permanent sharer for my boy who is happy to hack and do a bit of schooling (currently on number 2, as first got pregnant and moved away) who pays the same - he'd be ridden far less and considerably cheaper to keep (not clipped and rugged, shod less frequently, fed less, probably not kept vaccinated etc) if it wasn't for her so I expect her to cover those costs. Actually seeing the list I've just written up, she's got a b****y good deal! The main reason I charged though, as others have said,is to make sure I've found a committed and responsible adult who understand what it costs and how they add to those costs.

My first sharer was someone new to the area who had had to leave her old retired horse at home with her mum when she moved and the second is someone who can afford some of the costs in keeping a horse but not all so they both gained a lot out of it.

Finding sharers for both me and my friend wasn't about money or 'having a day off' (incidentally I've never missed a day I was supposed to be there DESPITE, not except for, genuine illness. Unless you've puked into a wheelbarrow whilst mucking out, you've not really experienced proper responsibility :) ) It was about what was best for the horses and how best to make a not ideal situation work - and that includes financially.
 
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I think there is a difference between a formal part-loan and a work for rides arrangement. Normally with a paid-for part-loan the sharer is allocated a specific amount of days they are allowed to ride on - say 3 days a week. There may be occasions when the owner wants to ride more often, but doesn't so as to allow the sharer to get their weekly allocated rides. Whereas with a work for rides arrangement where no money changes hands it is more likely that the rider has to fit round the owner's schedule - if the owner has some time off then they might ride every day and the sharer might not get a ride for a week or two.

It is also partly down to supply and demand - if the horse concerned is versatile and safe and the yard has a school, jumps and good hacking, then there is likely to be a queue of people wanting to share, so the owner is in a far stronger position to command a significant financial contribution. Whereas if the horse is quirky and/or needs schooling and the only facilities are a boggy field and main road hacking, then the owner might find they have to settle for less money, or none at all.

I've also seen both sides of the coin - at one point I exercised a horse for a friend and did chores on the day but no financial contribution was necessary. However, owner was really keen for the horse to be exercised when she was busy and the horse was a hack only. Also her running costs were low as horse was kept at home. I also had to fit in with the owner's schedule and fit around when she wanted to ride, but it suited us both well at the time.

I currently have a sharer for my daughter's old pony who I have kept for me to ride. However I don't want to ride every day and as the pony is a versatile schoolmaster who hacks safely, competes in a range of disciplines (including being placed at PC & RC Nat Champs) and is a fantastic hunter, it seems a waste for her not to be passing this experience onto another keen teenager. So I have a sharer for her who gets to ride pretty much as often as she wants, in exchange for a small financial contribution and some chores. I don't think that is a bad deal, especially as she gets to go to PC rallies, hunting and competitions at no extra cost if we are already taking the lorry.
 
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Haven't read ALL the posts, I'll admit, but there seem to be strong feelings on either side of this debate.
I will add my, hopefully, objective opinion and then duck.

When I had my gelding, he was a real 'bubble wrap' job, and so was very labour intensive and needed riding at least 5 times a week. Don't get me wrong, I loved it, but there was the odd time when a friend was 'between horses' and I'd make an arrangement for them to take him for a mid-week hack, or a competition or something, and I would get to go swimming, or shopping, or something... I wouldn't have expected money for this because I was benefitting in other ways.

Likewise, I am now 'between horses' and three very kind and special people have offered me rides on their lovely horses. For nothing. In the year since my lad was PTS, I have more or less consistently had someone to ride. In return, I do all the jobs (and I mean ALL the jobs) and make sure I do them to a standard that is higher than the standard I would be happy with. With all of these people, I have made it clear from the outset that I am not in a position to contribute financially because I am saving every penny I have to buy a new horse, but that I will look after theirs like it is my own, and would not take offense in the slightest if they found someone else to ride who was willing to pay. It has therefore been their choice to let me ride for nothing.

I would say, though, that these are people that I know well and knew how I looked after my horse, so presumably feel happy that I will take a similar level of care with theirs.

I don't think it is worth getting hot under the collar either way, really. If you are a horse owner, either you want someone to ride your horse for free to help you out, or you want to part share to help with the finances. Either is just as good an arrangement as the other as long as everyone understands and is in agreement.
If you are not a horse owner, you are either prepared to pay to ride or you aren't. If you aren't, you may find your options for a mount more limited than if you are, but you might also be prepared to 'pay' in other ways like doing the jobs.

Anyway, that's what I think.
 
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