Pascal??

JanetGeorge

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I'd guess some of the Warmblood breeders here would be able to tell me a bit about a Hanoverian stallion of this name.

Just curious - as I've just had a 5 year old by him arrive for backing and his movement is AWESOME! I don't think I've ever seen another youngster who moves so well! He's destined for a dressage career (not surprisingly!
) He's out of a TB mare who appears to have been graded
with the BHHS - has the letters H4 in front of the registration number.
 

delphipuppy

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Suzzy at Morgan Equine owns him. She has a website MorganEquine I think. She lives about 10 minutes away from where I used to live, he is a lovely stallion although as stated he is well into his 20s now and retired.
 

JanetGeorge

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[ QUOTE ]
Talk to Suzie Mainprice of Morgan Equine. There are pictures and information about him here
Pascal

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah - yes! THAT's the sort of movement I was looking at this morning (and he was just trotting quietly on the lunge - after 3 strides I was
- and my rider's excitement levels were rising to danger level!


He's a 5 year old - about 17 hh - so his owner has delayed backing him to give him plenty of time to mature.
 

Ciss

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[ QUOTE ]
I'd guess some of the Warmblood breeders here would be able to tell me a bit about a Hanoverian stallion of this name.

Just curious - as I've just had a 5 year old by him arrive for backing and his movement is AWESOME! I don't think I've ever seen another youngster who moves so well! He's destined for a dressage career (not surprisingly!
) He's out of a TB mare who appears to have been graded
with the BHHS - has the letters H4 in front of the registration number.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Janet as you obviously don't rate any of my opinions much I did hestitate to post this but as I have known this horse since he was 4 years old (ie longer even than Suzie) I hope the following will be of help to those who do feel my imput is of benefit.

IMHO Pascal is almost a saint of a horse. He was imported into the UK after successfully completing his performance test in Germany but for some strange (never explained) reason he had not done his conformation assessment at an earlier grading and the people who imported him didn't know enough to realise that.

They proceded to compete him in dressage as a 4 year old in the East Grinstead area (about the same time as my stallion Tallents Wellesley was beginning his career) but the rider was huge (I'm talking about ca 18 stone here) with no feel and everyone kept saying 'Poor horse' becuase he was so brave and generous and stil kept going forward all the time.

Eventually (much to everyone's releif) his owners got bored with having him (moved on to something else less physically demanding like stamp collecting perhaps <ROFL>?) and he came on the market quite cheaply. Suzie, who has a great eye for a quality horse but not a great deal of money, managed to buy him and get his conformational assessment sorted out (so that he was Hann graded) and then presented him for BWBS grading. This was a remarkable one in that he is the only horse ever to have assumed that the six-barred fence at the end of the jumping lane was a part of the jumping lane as well and took it on and cleared it by a mile (not bad for a Pik Bube/ Duft bred for dressage
).

To look at he is a not very large, very correct, very good moving and naturally athletic stallion with the added benefit (for some dressage breeders) being black (although I don't think he is homozygous) and his temperament and rideability is superb. Sadly being down in Wales he has been very under used in my opinion but then again I am not sure how successful his transported semen is so that might well be another reason for it.

I think if you could have seen him in the flesh when he was young Janet it might have put the whole emphasis of my posts on what qualities a stallion needs to be successful in a dressage breeding programme into context as he has/had it all -- a pediogree steeped in generations of top class gentotype of proven dressage breeding, combined with an ouststanding phenotype shown by performance test results, ideal modern athletic type, superb naturally uphill movement, a lovely generous temperament. He also had an ability to pass those qualities on to even the most unpromising of mares. He is also now becoming that most prized commodity a super sire of broodmares and several successful Futurity horses this year have Pascal as dam sire.

Had he been anywhere else than in South Wales -- or at stud at a time by which transported semen had been more accessible and people more able to use it properly, he would have been a real force to be reckoned with but sadly, through no fault of his own, he is probably now condemned to be one of the many might-have-beens of British breeding.

BTW, BHHS has always graded TB mares into its studbook and I'm surprised that you did not know that either -- and probably what you might call AWESOME movement is just what Pascal usually produces and is expected to produce (even out of TB mares) as far as wb breeders is concerned. But then that is the difference in expectations I suppose :)

Note to Trak breeders: This is obviously not the Trakehner stallion Pascal that we are talking about. OOps I don't mean that in any derogatory sense (he was a very good and performance proven stallion too) it is just the Hann bloodlines etc I was referring to. :)
 

JanetGeorge

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[ QUOTE ]


Well Janet as you obviously don't rate any of my opinions much I did hestitate to post this but as I have known this horse since he was 4 years old (ie longer even than Suzie) I hope the following will be of help to those who do feel my imput is of benefit.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's only your opinions on RID's I don't rate terribly highly! As mentioned elsewhere, I have actually never thought that IDs could challenge the best WBs when it comes to producing top level dressage horses.

VERY interesting about Pascal. And I'd have to agree that he MUST have been exceptional - just having seen this one horse - because he NEVER got that movement from a TB (and I've seen and ridden literally hundreds of young TBs!) I've seen (and ridden) a few WBs too - though nowhere near as many - well-bred and very nice movers - and this one IS exceptional. Not just my opinion - my rider is French and started his career on a large Selle Francais stud which bred some top horses - and he was gob-smacked within 3 strides.

But I think this horse will back up my view that some of these BIG movers just don't suit amateurs - I haad an ISH here a few years ago who had big movement (but not as big as this) and several COMPETENT amateurs just couldn't ride him (ended up selling him to Kate Atlee - although unfortunately she sold him on later as she was offered a couple of high level horses and just didn't have time for him.) Fortunately, this chap's owner WILL be able to stay with him!

Too early to say much about whether he'll have the temperament - but it's encouraging to hear his sire had it. And I'm not at ALL surprised to hear Pascal could jump - my only concern about whether a horse that moves like this COULD jump would be whether he could manage a short bounce!


[ QUOTE ]
BTW, BHHS has always graded TB mares into its studbook and I'm surprised that you did not know that either

[/ QUOTE ]

I cheerfully admit to knowing NOTHING about Warmblood grading. Never needed to - and am unlikely to. But based on this one son of Pascal, I admit to being VERY sorry he's retired. I'd be tempted to use him on one particular RID mare who HAS got good (with a small g.) movement and throws foals that are very uphill in front and show a talent for piaffe - put a bit of the BIG movement in and I'd bet it would be awesome! Just probably couldn't grade the bu**er anywhere - even if it had the best of both worlds.
 
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I visited Pascal in the summer holidays at Morgan and as far as I know there's no semen left. We have recently bought a mare from Wales who has had two fillies by Pascal - both absolutely gorgeous and with the kindest temperaments.
The yearling is one of the last by him, and is for sale if anyone is interested. The dam is Whorl Wind (BHHS registered), also bred at Morgan, by World Classic and out of a TB mare. Pascal has the sweetest nature and is a real nice chap to be around. I'd snap up any of his progeny as there were two alone that qualified for BD Nationals this year. If only I had the money, the time, the space etc. Premiere (the yearling) would be in our fields right now
 

chris_j

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22 September 2008
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Very proud owner coming out of lurkerdom here! Had the shock of my life when I logged onto HHO earlier & saw what Janet had written. I thought he had really come on this summer but you are never sure if you are a little barn blind & I have another Pascal who came 4th in the Shearwater International 6yr olds so she sets the standard for movement for the younger horses to measure up!

Provence is by Pascal out of Windy Bay xx (Tower Walk xx) & is a 5yr old Hanoverian, bred by Suzy at Morgan Equine. I bought him as a 5 month old foal. I already owned a smashing mare out of the same dam but by Donnersohn.

He has taken time to grow into himself & has been on the market as a 3 yr old but people were always a bit put off that he was by a TB instead of a fashionable maternal dam line. Windy Bay had already produced Airwave (by Akkord) who competed at the National Dressage Champs under Paul Hayler & Gale - competing at affiliated dressage with amateur owner. I love TBs so wanted a beautiful horse that looked like a TB but moved like a dressage warmblood


Windy Bay also provides an eventing connection. Jued Lad is by Tower Walk (Prov's maternal grand sire) & was 3rd at Achelswang 3DE under Mark Todd & then represented Sweden at the 1990 World Championships.

I absolutely adore Pascal - in fact I have 3 by him at the moment! He was a lovely horse to deal with, real zest for life but very kind & was one of the first stallions that I handled. Super mover & a very tidy jump as anyone who has one of Suzy's stud videos will know.

Pascal has never been a fashionable horse who has covered hundreds of mares & most of his stock are with amateur owners which makes their achievments even more impressive! Spring Pascal came 4th at the National Dressage Champs yesterday at Medium with a young rider on him. He is out of a Cleveland Bay mare but he has a heck of a trot on him as anyone watching yesterday will know!

I have Provence's entire full brother at home who is even better, both in type & movement but has the same exceptional temperament. So the Pascal bloodline lives on, it's just hidden away in Bristol at the moment
The 2 boys are turned out together in a 5 acre field & I bring in & turn out by myself, leading two 17hh horses, one young, one stallion through several fields to get there.

Prov has been left to grown on & I'm so glad I waited as he has blossomed this summer & his movement is 10 times what it was. His full brother will stand at stud but is primarily my competition horse so will have to prove he has the ability in the ring to earn his keep. Once he is competing at PSG he will go forward to the Hanoverian grading, there seems little point in sending him until then. I'm excited about the possibilities of crossing him with D line mares for the magic cross that has produced so many top Grand Prix horses & that his progeny will have the TB blood in the second generation, which is recognised in Germany as being where it really benefits.

Between finishing my degree, running a newish business, no lorry etc. the horses haven't been out & about much & have very much taken a back seat. It says something about the Pascal temperament that you can have been away on business for a week, get home at 9pm, throw a saddle on & school in the dark with no shenanigans! However, we will be out & about lots in 2009
proving that British Bred horses rock even if we are on a shoestring budget & with an amateur owner/rider compared to the might of the continental marketing machines


Someone mentioned the lovely Pascal filly Premiere earlier, who just missed out on a place at the Futurity finals. She is by Whorlwind, a daughter of Windy Bay so is very closely related to the youngster at Janet's & they are very very similar in type. If I had the room & the cash she would be in my stable yard already
 

Farrieress

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19 May 2006
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And i can vouch they are all good for the farrier too!!!! ha ha , yes chris is in the very fortunate position of being the proud owner of 3 incredibly moving horses very sweet temperments even the stallion, who is turned out with his gelding brother led by chris who is about 5ft on a good day! lol sorry luv x stabled next to mares and i have never seen him nasty x

Now all chris needs to do is stop working so blummin hard and start enjoying them!!! x
 
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Hello
I have just been sent the lovely comments on Pascal and his off-spring posted on the forum and wish to agree whole heartedly. I own the yearling filly Premiere, also mentioned in the comments and she to has a fanastic temp and is a huge mover with lovely shoudler action and fabulous hindleg . I also own a 2008 filly by Pik Polo (by Pascal) out of a Miners Lamp mare. She again is a huge mover and has a super temp. Pik Polo is a fab stallion and is based down here in S.Wales. He again is a fabulous mover and has an outstanding temperment, he has up until this point only been used on the lady's own mares but has this year been available for A.I. He had two off-spring at the BEF both 1st Premium winners and the top sports pony colt! He also had to winners at the Royal Welsh which is good going for his limited off-spring
 
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