Passed vetting BUT....

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reindeerlover

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Well my lovely pony has been on trial for 10 days and they love her, they wanted her vetted so got the vet out to her today, all went brilliantly with vet saying what a great pony she is and how everyone should have one! Passed all flexions etc with flying colours.

However... I was under the impression that she was 10 1/2 years old and that is what she was advertised at.

Vet says she is 14!!! Passport is stupid generic one with age unknown on it and microchip form is the same.

My Vet vacc her in January and I asked what she thought and she agreed that 10 was about right.

NOW, they still want her but say that the £2600 agreed is now too much. I have 3 questions;

1. Is it really that easy to be so precise about ages?
2. How much should I go down to
3. Should I pay for a "second opinion" from a dentist and risk him being right all along?

I want these people to have her as they are perfect for her but I don't want to drop the price by a silly amount either.:(:confused:
 
Its a difficult one! You can see it from both sides. Its very hard to be precise at that age range really. If your vet has looked recently and thought ten, I'd let the people know that. Tell them you're not sure this vet is accurate, and ask would they accept a second opinion. Ask them how much they would want you to drop the price - it may be worth a second opinion to you..
 
As horses get older it is quite hard to age a horse properly, especially to be very specific at 14 years old, normally you can only manage a ball park guess of say 12-15 years old, and even then you could be wrong. Ageing also depends on whether the horses teeth are worn from things such as crib-biting, diet etc.

Maybe get a qualified EDT out to see what they think, as vets actually don't have all that much training and daily experience in dentistry compared to a qualified EDT.
 
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I had a pony vetted last year, she had a generic passport and chip, she was supposed to be 14 vet came out and said she was mid 20's!!!
I have always been told its a fine art and generally you can only really tell if they are young, middling or old and you want someone extremely experienced if they are going to tell you down to the year.
I was instantly suspicious of vet so asked him if he would look at another for me, a registered welsh a whos age I knew down to the day, he then proceeded to tell me pony was around 12 years old. Pony was 21!!!! Vet was asked to leave my yard and not come back.

This is a one off and I know not all vets are like this, I suspect he was a friend of prospective buyer and put his foot in it while trying to get price down. I would get a second opinion. Vet left my yard in such a hurry he took the passport and would he answer the phone for me to get it back? Would he nothing. :mad:
 
marmalade76 said:
Do they have it in writing that that's their vet's opinion or just word of mouth?

If it's the latter, they could just be trying to get the price down.
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Apparently he wrote it on the vetting form, I have called the office for him to call me back. He is an older vet with lots of experience so I would be inclined to beleive his opinion if he hadn't been so specific. I spoke to my EDT and even he said it was a fine art and it was down to maintenance and the type of horse too, even then it was a "best guess".

Thanks for all your comments folks!

Anyone have any opinions on how much I should reduce price by if I don't go second opinion route?
 
at the age of 10 there is a definate shape to the inside of the bottom teeth. So i would inclined to go with what your vet said or get EDT.... how do i know this - I bought a 13 yr old who when i had her vaccinated I asked my vet just to confirm age and he said between the age of 10-11 there is a definate shape to to infidulium (sp)? - the middle shape of the bottom teeth and as they get older it becomes hard to be sure. I got him to put in writing so i sent to insurance and got a few more yrs out of them.
 
Personally I wouldnt knock more than £300 off, would advise purchasers that you only have this vets opinion to go on and that you have had opinions off others that pony was 10-12. Best of luck
 
It depends on what the pony is like really. 14 is no that old by pony standards really nowadays. We have a 15 yr old 13.2h that is super, full of life, and wins everything.

I'd offer to reduce it by £100 as a desture, but say you don't really agree with them. Shame they didn't have it vetted before the trail really. I half think they're calling your bluff - do they really want to start trawling through ads again if they've got something that they like that passed a vet...
 
Trouble is from their point of view they are going to hit the veteran insurance bracket a few years sooner. Will also affect resale value.
I would knock off £500 rather than lose these buyers.
 
I would say they're using it as a bargaining tool. If she's a nice sort of all round pony that's anot a high price so I would either get a second opinion (but how much will that cost?) or stick to your price. She passed the vetting after all!
 
It's a tricky one cos, unless you can say for definite the horse is 10 then the horse could be a few years older or younger. However, as far as I am concerned a vet is not the most qualified person to tell a horse's age unless said vet is an equine expert and knows more than just basic dentistry. Once a horse is over 10 years of age it gets more and more difficult to be specific about its age (unless you are a qualified equine dentist with years of experience). Many vets still judge it by the galvayne's groove and the teeth angle but this is not very accurate at all and is only a guide.

Often you will see on a vet's report, where a horse does not have proof of age documentation but is know to be 10 years + they will just note it as 'aged'.

I guess it depends what you want to do - saying the horse is 14 is a bit precise of him/her. The horse could still be 10, he could be 11,12,13 - who knows!!! If you want to sell him to them then i guess you have to balance this with what you are prepared to drop price wise. I don't think what you're asking is extortionate if a decent pony and 14 certainly isn't old anyway.

The only way to be more accurate about the age is to consult an equine dentist but for the sake of a couple of hundred quid lost maybe in the asking price to know the pony's going to a good home, is it worth disputing?
 
If you dont need to shift the pony, I would tell them you're not dropping the price (and perhaps get your EDT out to give her opinion although she might be able to do that over the phone). I think they're trying to lower the price - and there is no way they could be bang on precise at 14, surely?!
 
Ageing by dentition is notoriously inaccurate, especially once a horse is older than about 7 or 8.

Once all the permanent teeth have erupted you are basically making an educated guess based on the rate of wear, and of course this is highly variable due to genetics, diet, soil type, cribbing etc.

Perhaps you could have a chat with them and explain that to the best of your knowledge that is the horse's age.
 
Ok folks, thanks all so much. This is so very hard! I already dropped the price from £2900 to £2600 and she really is a super pony. However, as the lady wants to keep her for ever and ever and her youngest child is 4 now she was hoping to get plently more years out of her so from her point of view, if pony IS 14 then that's 3 1/2 years less use that she has from her.

From my point of view, I can't see that the pony is that age (although unable to prove this of course). For the sake of a couple of hundred more I would of course let her go to save myself the hassle but if she wants the price dropped by a significant amount then pony can stay with me or it is worth paying for my nice dentist man to pop down and see her and give his opinion.

I could offer to drop another £200 or if she wants more then offer 2nd opinion option. he is a very nice Lady though, I'm sure that she is taking what the Vet says at face value is all. Aaaaargh, why can't anything be easy???
 
Farrierlover said:
.........I already dropped the price from £2900 to £2600 and she really is a super pony. However, as the lady wants to keep her for ever and ever and her youngest child is 4 now she was hoping to get plently more years out of her so from her point of view, if pony IS 14 then that's 3 1/2 years less use that she has from her........

I could offer to drop another £200 or if she wants more then offer 2nd opinion option. he is a very nice Lady though, I'm sure that she is taking what the Vet says at face value is all. Aaaaargh, why can't anything be easy???
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You've already dropped the price by £300 - what does this woman want, the pony as a Gift????!!!!!!!

Don't know what height your (lovely sounding) pony is but let me put something in perspective:

At Scope this year there were several 128's in their TWENTIES in the ribbons in Championships - plenty of time for the youngest cherub to get going whether the pony is now 10 1/2 or 14!
There are also JAs in their late teens changing hands for nearly £100k! (Yes, I know, it's an obscene amount of money).

If it was me (and at quarter past 2 in the morning, unable to sleep, a belligerent cow), I would gently remind the people how good your pony is, how perfect she is for them (and them for her) and stick to your price.

My gut instinct is that they ARE chancing it to try and get pony cheaper, but why - are they broke? Can they not afford to keep her?

Should mention that I'm a bit of a nightmare when selling anything - have been known to grill people on financial standing before (especially first timers) - so many have little clue as to how much everything will cost.....

Mini rant over, nightie night :)
 
Teeth wear can be interpreted anyway you want, there's any number of factors that affect it. A 6 year old I had for a while had nine or ten year old teeth, and my last horse at 20 was guessed to be 14 after seeing his teeth. I'd have had her vetted before letting them take her, tbh, and if they really loved her they wouldn't be quibbling over a couple of years, given that teeth are a rough guide.
 
I can see entirely why the purhasers are concerned. If you were pricing a pony, the difference between 11 & 14 would seriously affect your estimate.

BUT if the woman is not planning on ever selling the pony, it could be still going strong for another 10 years + with no real deterioration in it's ability so it should make less difference to her. The critical thing regarding it's future usefulness is that it passed the vet.

You need to have a conciliatory chat to her I think, she sounds like a perfect home. Make it clear that the vet was doing no more than making an educated guess, and I would tell her to ensure it isn't an age carried through onto her insurance documentation etc or the vet has stitched her up a bit.

In reality to get a 2nd opinion about age will probs cost a couple of hundred pounds - maybe agree to drop the price by that much to save you both the hassle.
 
tricky one for you this one if you offer to reduce amount it sort of says yes, hes older than i said admission they like him theyve had him vetted, etc,your vet said younger and you can get that in writing ! but then you like the buyers,home etc, can they get a letter of their vet conf age he thought ?
To me they want the horse, just using it as bargining tool .If horse is right one , perfect passed vetting , what is the problem really ?Tbh it wouldnt bother me i would say stand your ground on what your vet said , you can get a letter conf this But you like them and the home ,i think £500 is tooo much to knock off if you are going to reduce price to get a good home i would just do a token £100/£200 because you like them but stand by ehat your vet /passport said
 
I personally would POSSIBLY knock a couple of hundred of as a good will gesture BUT...

This sort of thing really annoys me as it is notoriously hard to age a horse by dentition and even EDTS get it wrong - mine thought my youngster already had his adult teeth... he didn't - his caps came off a couple of weeks later.

Also, pony is currently fit for purpose. Vet has qualified that much as have the buyers. Beyond that there are no guarantees. God forbid, pony could drop dead tomorrow OR on the other hand she could have her for another 20 years!... 4 years here or there really doesn't make THAT much difference in the whole scheme of things in this case does it...
 
I think the buyers are just trying it on to get a cheaper price, If I had agreed that I would pay the original price in the first place and I thought that the pony was definately the one I wanted I would pay it.
When I got Nadia I offered a price and lucky for me they accepted, had they not accepted I would have still had her.
If you are in no hurry to sell I would stick to your price and see what they say.
 
I would say if the pony is perfect in every other way then why are they quibbling about a few hundred quid. We all know how hard it is to find that perfect horse and if its right then i would say price is some what irrelvant (and i'm not loaded) they could go on for months looking for another and still not find what they found in yours. stick to your guns and good luck.
 
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