Patrik Kittel responds to "Blue Tongue" Video

A search on here will reveal dozens of 'my horse gets his tongue over the bit, what can I do?' posts, one of them mine!

I've had two horses get their tongues over the bit. The first one did it just once, in a double, went ballistic (throwing himself backwards and rearing). I got off promptly, took the bridle off and re-tacked up with no further problems. The other one did it constantly, continued riding as normal, without anyone being the wiser unless you stopped and openned his mouth. A new bit sorted that out, but while he was doing it it was not possible to detect ridden. Horses - go figure!
 
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Why on earth would they post 90 mins come on guys! who is going to sit watching that sicko for 90 mins bad enough 4mins.



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Because of the extremely serious nature of the allegation, the dispute over what happened, the public interest in this, and the negligeable cost of sitting through 90 minutes of video to see what really happened.

And...the MAFIA??? You are comparing the equestrian world to the mafia?
 
I'm on the fence with this one too. I can't bring myself to condone Rollkur, but i'm also not convinced that the tongue was actually blue either. Yes, the horse is showing tension in the video etc. but it's a valid argument that the video will have been edited to display the worst moments from this alleged extreme schooling session.

I hope that the truth can be confirmed at some stage and the matter be dealt with as is necessary, either punishing the rider or dismissing any false allegations, as is appropriate.
 
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Why on earth would they post 90 mins come on guys! who is going to sit watching that sicko for 90 mins bad enough 4mins

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Because the other 86 mins might just show a different picture?
If what Epona say is true then release the edit with links to the full version.

I am pretty sure that if you took 90 mins footage of me playing with my son at the park,you could get an edited 4 showing me doing nothing but telling him off when the fact is that is a tiny section of how the time was spent.
It oculd be the same case here.

As much as I want any rider hurting their horse by whatever method dragged in front of their governing body and banned for so long they may as well pack it in now,no-one wants to see an innocent riders career in shreds.
However good the source,only ever trust the evidence.
 
QR

While I'm all for EPONA releasing every scrap of footage they have, particularly when making allegations that directly relate to how long a person did something, I do think those 4 minutes are quite critical. You don't need 90 minutes of a bloke chatting amicably with his wife to know the 4 minute excerpt of him punching her in the face is a bad thing.

Regardless of what else was filmed, at the very least Kittel could've dismounted and made sure the horse was comfortable, uninjured from the experience, and safe to continue. Surely this would've been preferable to pushing the tongue back in while still mounted and without finding out the actual cause of the problem in the first place (rollkur in general excepted).

One final thing - if the interview is accurate, Kittel refers to "between the bits or over the bit", which I find a very bizarre way of phrasing it considering he claims to have a full grasp on what actually happened.
 
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One final thing - if the interview is accurate, Kittel refers to "between the bits or over the bit", which I find a very bizarre way of phrasing it considering he claims to have a full grasp on what actually happened.

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It is an odd thing to say.
Surely if he diddnt KNOW he should have got off and sorted it? Or at least got someoen on the ground to sort the horses tongue out?
If the tongue was in the bits and not over,the popping it back would surely just do more harm?
Wouldnt be on show,but would still be trapped between the bits.
 
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If this was a case of abuse why didn't the film-maker bring it to the attention of the stewards so it could be properly dealt with, the abuse stopped and the rider disciplined? Is the film-maker more interested in publisizing a campaign or in preventing cruelty to this horse?

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Surely the stewards should have been able to see it themselves it was happening in front of them. I think unfortunately the world of any sport at the top is full of people who are hand in glove. I've no faith in the governing bodies doing anything about it - as I said in a previous post a top rider was seen by my instructor riding her horse in a competition with blood pouring from spur marks - she was eliminated from that class though she still had the audacity to enter the arena. However in my mind she should have at least received a lengthy ban for such blatant abuse. If there is no substantial penalty for this obvious abuse what hope have we in raising rollkur as a welfare issue?
 
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QR

While I'm all for EPONA releasing every scrap of footage they have, particularly when making allegations that directly relate to how long a person did something, I do think those 4 minutes are quite critical. You don't need 90 minutes of a bloke chatting amicably with his wife to know the 4 minute excerpt of him punching her in the face is a bad thing.

Regardless of what else was filmed, at the very least Kittel could've dismounted and made sure the horse was comfortable, uninjured from the experience, and safe to continue. Surely this would've been preferable to pushing the tongue back in while still mounted and without finding out the actual cause of the problem in the first place (rollkur in general excepted).

One final thing - if the interview is accurate, Kittel refers to "between the bits or over the bit", which I find a very bizarre way of phrasing it considering he claims to have a full grasp on what actually happened.

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Well said, just what i was about to say but probably much better than i would have.

I don't care if the other 86 minutes are shown to have him riding nicely. Those 4 minutes made for sickening viewing, and he can't care that much about his horse if he pushed a blue tongue back in its mouth without even getting off to check, then carried on working. Poor horse, to put up with that for even half a lap his spirit must already be broken, so Kittel doesn't need to worry about that.
 
For those that are concerned - go directly to EPONA and ask them why you cant see the remaining tape?

Why do you think the tape was edited? You seem to insinuate that the evidence was somehow tampered - this is simply not true what you see is real time footage slowed down (horses arses/riders boots blurring view) so that you can see clearly the hyperflexion and the blue tongue. Otherwise it would be maddening playing and replaying the tape trying to freeze frame.

EPONA fight for the welfare of horses - they are journalists with a mission to undercover abusive practice and highlight the best in horsemanship today.

My point was raised about the mafia style hold in the equestrian world... Yes this is true - try and speak up or speak out - and find out for yourself what happens - against some of these people. We know that in whatever industry money and power is all... the lengths that people will go to, to protect themselves and not lose money or power are extraordinary.

There are people prepared to use violence and force to shut up dissenting voices... naive not to realise otherwise, just cos they have lots of money and drive £250,000 horseboxes doesnt make them less likely to throw a wobbly!
 
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Yes this is true - try and speak up or speak out - and find out for yourself what happens - against some of these people. We know that in whatever industry money and power is all... the lengths that people will go to, to protect themselves and not lose money or power are extraordinary.

There are people prepared to use violence and force to shut up dissenting voices... naive not to realise otherwise, just cos they have lots of money and drive £250,000 horseboxes doesnt make them less likely to throw a wobbly!

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Whilst I am 100% in agreement with you over this video and rollkur generally, I do think you need to be very careful about throwing accusations like this around. Don't make insinuations or implications without having proof...
 
To be honest I find it quite insulting that you compare the equestrian world to a terrorist organisation that has assassinated thousands of people in more than one countries over decades and is involved in arms/drugs trafficing, coercion and extortion, political and judicial assassinations, etc.

I find the near hysterical tone of your e-mails and the totally inappropriate accusations of use of violence to silence dissenting opinions quite off putting and I do have to struggle to take your cause seriously DESPITE your behaviour rather than because of it.
 
Hi BOOBOOS

why do you guys take things out of context - terroists!... LOL

I said clearly what "goes on in ANY INDUSTRY" I.E. where power and money is KING! - ask any welfare inspector, policeman, customs officers etc.,, How people react to being questioned. Especially IF they are hiding something...

It simply is true that in all sports there is an 'underground' for want of a better expression of people who are prepared to go to almost any costs to get their way, to win, to make money. etc,.

The equine press and Television documentaries repeatedly tell us that - in relation to equitation...Racing is cluttered with race fixing, hobbling horses etc, saddlebred horses have had their tendons cut, showjumpers ditto, firing, bumping etc and dressage also has its ugly secrets, that many want to remain hidden. the latest is pulleys on the hooves - but I digress!

stop being hysterical about the word 'Mafia' it is a description often used, not in a literal sense (as I clearly stated!) to describe a collective of individuals who want things their way or no way - and will be 'rather nasty' (if this description better suits your sensibilities) to people who cross their path.

I am not going to apologise for having an alternative view on abuse , rollkur and those that advocate its use in training - if a movement is not natural to a horse than we shouldnt force it, its not that difficult to comprehend, bad enough that we ride them!

What I find staggering is the lack of understanding (or worse the dismissal of scientific arguement and evidence) by some people on this site - not only of biomechanics , kinetics etc, but also the mentality side of this row -the mental suffering sport horses endure when we use sustained and unrelenting force (such as in rollkur) WITHOUT RELEASE.

This can clearly be seen from the epona video clip - more so in the extended 9 mins - where Scanic tries to kick Kittels foot after and before some clearly stressful tail swishing (a recognised sign of stress in conjunction with the stimuli) stretching of his top lip, extravagant foaming etc..

worry about the horse! not me, nor your seemingly offended feelings!
 
I woiuld not allow Patrik Kittel to ride one of my horses but on the other hand I regularly see horses being ridden in this manner at BD events. It will only stop when judges penalise horses that are behind the vertical, with the poll not being the highest point.
One of my really good friends competes on a broken polled horse, that has it's head behind the vertical and I look at her high scores and wonder what is going on.
 
EPONA TV print article from St.George website - more damning evdience of Mr Kittles riding this time - stewards intervene to change tight nosebands, evidence of sores, etc.,

Seems like Mr Kittle rides a little longer in rollkur than he would have us believe!
 
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