Pay Per view equestrian web site galleries

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spidge

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Competitors I'd love to hear your views on a direction I am considering going with my equestrian galleries. What I am finding is that competitors at all level, pony club through to eventing, BS , BD automatically expect web galleries from an event to be available on my web site the same day or within 24 hours at the latest. This despite any consideration to the logistics or consideration of the impact this adds to a perhaps typicaal 12 hour day travelling to an event, setup, photographing, packdown, travel home etc. So often the photographer is one of the first there and the last to leave. That is not my gripe, nor is it the fact that so many images are subsequently screen printed ( ie shoplifted) onto Facebook. My web gallery viewing figures for some events are often close to the actual numbers of competitors, I appreciate some may view more than once. For some events the conversion rate of viewings into sales can be very low, 1 or 2%, certainly not worth the time,trouble and expense of preparing and uploading the web gallery. So is their very ready availability a reason not to buy,given that the gallery will be online for perhaps the next year to be viewed at any time, by anyone for whatever reason.

Sorry I am getting to the point. If the 2 options were to pay the photographer a nominal amount to view the online gallery or accept the non-availability of those galleries for online viewing, what would you prefer? Would the price of £2 to view for a week, (£5 for a month?) with the bonus of a free £2 Facebook suitable download in return put you off or make you appreciate that you are in effect viewing premium content that someone has taken time, trouble, precision and accuracy to provide and make publicly available. I'd love to hear your thoughts. This is not intended to be a thread about Facebook filching of images. Would you pay to view web site galleries of an event on a photographers web site, if so how much would you deem reasonable or do you simply hate the idea because you think it should be free, even if you have no intention of purchasing ( for whatever reason). If you were prepared to pay what would you appreciate in return, freebie downloads, reduced prices on purchases, a percentage based loyalty discount card applicable to all purchases onsite?
 
I would be seriously put off any gallery that I had to pay to view. IF i knew I normally liked the photographers work alot I would potentially pay a nominal amount £2 maybe not £5 but I would expect that amount to be deducted from a purchase if I made one.

I don't know your work personally as you're not my area but several of my local togs I wouldn't pay a cent to view their galleries as it is rare they get a shot I truly like and I'm not going to give them money knowing the chance of me finding an image I will buy is very slim.
 
it's a difficult one. I find it very useful being able to look through photographers galleries to get a feel for what kind of course they build at venues I haven't been to before but wouldn't be overly keen to pay for this service (Sorry!). I know showgroundphotography.com (based at the David Broome event centre) charge to view their archives two weeks after an event (is free up until this point) and the charge is refunded if you make a purchase.

So, for the reason given above I wouldn't be interested in any deal as wouldn't be looking to make any purchased in many instances!

However it's not a bad idea, maybe would consider paying a nominal sum. But have you considered the extra costs to yourself of administering such a scheme, ie would it be worth your while?
 
I wouldn't pay, wouldn't look at the images and therefore wouldn't buy. It doesn't matter what you offer me as a freebie, if the images are no good (not necessarily your fault, horse may be doing something ridiculous with his legs) then I wouldn't buy, and I wouldn't run the risk of them all being rubbish and me having then paid to see stuff I would look at and go 'huh, look a bit dim in all of those'.

You would therefore lose any sales from me because I rarely look/buy at events.

Being unhappy about the hours/time it takes to do X job is really a very odd thing to do. I could complain about my bat surveys causing me to be up all night and then clients expecting me to answer the phone/emails the next day. I don't, because like the fact you work long days and odd hours, it is part of the job. I can't charge more for the night work, clients won't stand it and will go elsewhere. I either get on with it or find a different career - and the same goes in this situation I think. Sorry.
 
Personally I don't think I would be willing to pay, simply because the photos might all be terrible - whether that be my fault or the photographers it wouldn't really matter.

Also, I would often want to show friends and family the pictures, sometimes just to show or often to ask advice which I should buy. They wouldn't be able to do that if they had to pay just to see the photos.

So in the event that I had to pay to view photos, I probably would just not bother even looking unless I had an amazing experience at the show and really wanted a professional photo. In normal circumstances I am reasonably likely to buy a photo if there is a good one, but only if I can view them.

A free facebook download might be an incentive but again only if I was confident of there being a good photo.

Just my opinion :)
 
I wouldn't pay to view my pictures, unless I knew I could get something out of it. I think your idea of paying £2 to look, but you get a £2 facebook suitable image for 'free' is a good one, and I would pay for that. The thing is all too ofter the photographer is stood at the smallest fence, or has missed you completely, and I would feel very annoyed if I had paid to see some-not-very-good photos! Hence I probably wouldn't bother.
 
If I knew the pictures would be worth buying, I wouldn't mind paying to view. Unfortunately, I have so many duff pro photo's taken, it would be quite a gamble. OH takes fab pictures, so I'd probably stick with his.
 
No...I don't pay to try on clothes before I buy so why should I pay to look at anything else I may want to buy. There is a fab photographer over here who no matter what you do you cannot "shoplift" his pics to facebook however he does have a facebook page and takes both candid shots of people at the shows and posts them (people chatting etc not competing) and if you buy pic he will upload and tag you if you want so that you can have pic on facebook. he will also do a facebook "album deal" over the course of the season so you pay an amount and can build up the album. His attitude is control the use rather than prevent it and its much easier!
 
same as spotted cat- i just probably wouldn't bother looking...although a free FBook image might tempt me into paying £2. i'm usually pulling silly faces in all my pics- thats why i don't buy them - also find that photographers are rarely at the best fences on the XC

for the last two comps i went to i emailed the togs to ask if they would do me a deal for all my pics- lo res, just for Fbook and got no reply.... i'm not saying that this makes stealing the pics ok but many don't help themselves (not aimed at you spidge :p )
 
So not an unqualified no then which is encouraging. It is a risky and controversial strategy and I appreciate fraught with potential hiccups, both you for as a potential customer and me as a seller. The crucial part is quality of the images and the delivery of value.

This thread was not intended as a Facebook bash, nor in any way a whine about the UK equestrian photography landscape. Facebook has a value and is certainly not going away any time soon.

I offer low res downloads for £2. Last week at a BS event I sold one rider all her images (55 from 5 rounds in 3 classes) all high res for £40 so have no issue with volume discounts etc. This rider was very happy and offered to make sure we were credited on web sites as the photographer, I did not request it.
 
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amage out of interest could you PM me the photographer you talk of site address? I have been trying for ages to come up with 'non stealable' image coding but nothing has worked yet and honestly thought it wasn't possible and so I would be interested to see if their site really was fully protected :)
 
Santa_Claus said:
amage out of interest could you PM me the photographer you talk of site address? I have been trying for ages to come up with 'non stealable' image coding but nothing has worked yet and honestly thought it wasn't possible and so I would be interested to see if their site really was fully protected :)
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Yes me too please as this is the magic bullet for photographers.
 
I wouldn't pay to view photos from an 'unknown' photographer whether or not there was a freebie download, as I might get on to find one poor image. I might consider it from a known photographer with a good reputation, and who I know takes multiple images of competitors so there is a reasonable amount to see, but only if there was a free Facebook download available so I feel I get value for money!
 
Do you have the facilities to print on site? Our photographer found that this upped the amount of sales a great deal! No way would I pay to look at them, id probably take my camera a bit more often! I take brill pics but still end up buying a professional one at big shows(always bought on site when I think about it) it really annoys me when you see these pics with watermarks on Facebook obviously copied from sites, as its the photographers livelihood, so I can understand your problem. The facebook idea is fab! xx
 
I wouldn't pay to view either.

I usually buy at an event - when there is still the feel good factor - but rarely afterwards so having onsite printing is a big advantage in my opinion.
 
Whilst I understand your frustration, I'm afraid I would absolutely not pay to access the gallery on-line. To me, that's a bit like M&S charging me to go inside to browse their goods! Unfortunately 'setting out your stall' is part and parcel of running a retail business.

I try to have a quick look at the photos at an event but often don't have time, or simply can't be bothered to queue to get to the screens.

I don't often buy photos - running 2 horses at a number of events and other shows throughout the year means an awful lot of photos are taken and quite obviously I can't afford to purchase every time they go out.

I do always have a look at photos on-line (although I'm happy to wait a couple of days to do this), and I tend to use them to analyse how the horses are progressing - though this is not much use to the tog in terms of revenue!
 
Just to add, I know Spidge has on-site printing, but I'm sure I am not the only one that rarely buys at the event. We oftend don't have time to view photos at the event, and/or there is often a queue at the stand, so we usually view online after the event and make the decision to buy then. (Plus we don't usually buy prints we buy digital downloads).
 
Hi Spidge

I am in your area, & I do buy your photos fairly often.

However, I seldom have time to view properly at the show itself, will sometimes have a quick look there, & then show them to OH on line before deciding what to buy. So much depends on position of legs/rider etc!! You did a lovely enlargement for me recently,cropping out the bad bit!!!!.

Would I pay to view on line?....NO.,& I am not on facebook, & have no intention of joining, so that avenue holds no interest I'm afraid!
 
SpottedCat said:
I wouldn't pay, wouldn't look at the images and therefore wouldn't buy. It doesn't matter what you offer me as a freebie, if the images are no good (not necessarily your fault, horse may be doing something ridiculous with his legs) then I wouldn't buy, and I wouldn't run the risk of them all being rubbish and me having then paid to see stuff I would look at and go 'huh, look a bit dim in all of those'.

You would therefore lose any sales from me because I rarely look/buy at events.

Being unhappy about the hours/time it takes to do X job is really a very odd thing to do. I could complain about my bat surveys causing me to be up all night and then clients expecting me to answer the phone/emails the next day. I don't, because like the fact you work long days and odd hours, it is part of the job. I can't charge more for the night work, clients won't stand it and will go elsewhere. I either get on with it or find a different career - and the same goes in this situation I think. Sorry.
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I agree with all that SpottedCat says, I'm afraid.
 
Thank you for all the replies. The responses were fairly much as I predicted. I find it interesting that some of the points I made weren't even commented on.

More food for thought.
 
spidge said:
What I am finding is that competitors... expect web galleries from an event to be available on my web site the same day or within 24 hours at the latest.
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How about an express gallery option - Pay £3-5 (a burger) and get thumbnails emailed and your pictures up first for the people that are hassling

I like to see galleries up in a few working days of the event

spidge said:
nor is it the fact that so many images are subsequently screen printed ( ie shoplifted) onto Facebook.
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Partially due to your good quality images - yours have always been the highest quality to steal - I already suggested and massive darker watermark and lower res

spidge said:
My web gallery viewing figures for some events are often close to the actual numbers of competitors, I appreciate some may view more than once.
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Never underestimate bored people - I could visit the same page 10-20 times if I keep getting interrupted at work!

spidge said:
Would you pay to view web site galleries of an event on a photographers web site, if so how much would you deem reasonable or do you simply hate the idea because you think it should be free, even if you have no intention of purchasing ( for whatever reason).
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I wouldn't pay to view, but with your pricing, I would probably always buy from you as your prices are far more reasonable - 55 prints for £40 is unheard of - I got 2 for £40 at Addington!!

spidge said:
If you were prepared to pay what would you appreciate in return, freebie downloads, reduced prices on purchases, a percentage based loyalty discount card applicable to all purchases onsite?
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Free pics - definitely, as you may not like the pics enough to buy big ones, so little ones always appreciated if paid to view.

I see where you are going - I do think your area must be full of tight wads - I spent £150 on prints at the Blue Chips and trips to Addington were expensive !!

I know fuel is dear, but how about travelling out of area? Would Brackley in Oxon be too far for you?? (There is a competition coming up and I want pics!!)
 
I wouldn't pay to view a gallery either, I'm afraid. You could perhaps make viewing free for the first week or two after an event, then charge after that? People interested in purchasing will prob look during that time.
 
Don't have web address for the one that does the facebook (new laptop and lost my extensive addressbook of browsing history) but afaik www.jumpinaction.net has their pics protected! you can't right click on any of their pics which is part of the protection thing
 
quizzie said:
Hi Spidge

I am in your area, & I do buy your photos fairly often.

However, I seldom have time to view properly at the show itself, will sometimes have a quick look there, & then show them to OH on line before deciding what to buy. So much depends on position of legs/rider etc!! You did a lovely enlargement for me recently,cropping out the bad bit!!!!.

Would I pay to view on line?....NO.,& I am not on facebook, & have no intention of joining, so that avenue holds no interest I'm afraid!
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Same as Quizzie. I buy your pics quite often, and more recently your emailed images which are a great idea.

I'm one of those people that can't wait to get home and look at the photos online as I rarely have time to view on the showground. If it takes you 3 days to download them, so be it..... I often look at them several times before I buy, as I often want to buy them all, but have a budget!

Wouldn't pay to view even if I got my money back later on, and especially if I ONLY got it back if I bought an image.

Tough one, but we're not all picture thieves!!
 
I wouldn't pay to view a website. I do look at photographs after the event but I will only buy if it is an exceptionally good one as I have bought so many in the past I really don't need any more. What I mean by good is horse with ears forward, me not pulling funny faces, my position not making me cringe etc..... It's not the quality of your photographs that will be the deciding factor but things over which you have no control!

I often go to the photography tent during an event but usually don't bother looking due to the number of people waiting.

I don't do Facebook or any other similar site so a free download would be no interest to me.
 
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Pebble101 said:
I don't do Facebook or any other similar site so a free download would be no interest to me.
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Just thought I would point out, that although they are referred to as 'Facebook images' they are really just low res digital images suitable for posting on the internet or sending by email, so even though people don't use Facebook they still may have a use for these so-called 'Facebook images' to post on forums (like HHO) or to email to friends or family.
 
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