Paying for damage

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Heelsdown

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One of our liveries has cribbed on about 20+ fence posts between 4 fields. This has made them loose and the tops very damaged despite my efforts to put offsets in (£100 of my own expenses), he still manages to do it. The cribbing was never mentioned when she moved to the yard. She is moving off the yard in a week and she has made no effort to repair or pay for the fencing to be fixed.

Who is at fault?
 
Depends what is written in the contract. At my last yard it was written in the contract that we had to pay for damage, though the YO was fairly lenient and let one livery get away with both her horses completely trashing all the fencing and yard without making her pay.
 
Heelsdown said:
One of our liveries has cribbed on about 20+ fence posts between 4 fields. This has made them loose and the tops very damaged despite my efforts to put offsets in (£100 of my own expenses), he still manages to do it. The cribbing was never mentioned when she moved to the yard. She is moving off the yard in a week and she has made no effort to repair or pay for the fencing to be fixed.

Who is at fault?
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This damage to the fence was obviously done over a long period of time, I shouldn't have thought that the 20+ posts were done in a day or so. Could you not have intervened before all the damage was done? A bit of cribstop or whatever potion on the top of the fence may have detered the horse, or if you/her had bought some electric fencing tape and strewn that along the top, that may have detered her to.

I'm afraid I would say its one of those things that you should put down to experience and next time something shows signs of cribbing, take action earlier to prevent so much damage. Sorry to sound harsh, my horse doesn't crib in his stable, but he loves to chew fencing - he doesn't crib on it, just likes giving it a chew, he likes doing this as he goes in and out of the menage on the top of the wooden gate as I try to shut it, obviously I move him away from it as soon as the gate is shut. If I found him chewing the fence in his field as an owner I would take preventative action by either using electric fencing on top of the fencing or in front of it, and/or cribstop.
 
If not raised when the damage first started probably you - as soon as the damage started I woul have ben having a discussion with the livery regarding the future cost fi it was expected that they pay. Unless it is specifically written into the contract, even then if this is the first time mentioned it is a bit late.

Personally I offer as soon as my horse does any damage but contractually I am not obliged to pay for general ongoing damage as that is part of normal maintenance.
 
We do not have a contract in place. We are a very small, private DIY yard.

She was told by the yard owner many times that she needs to stop or at least try and prevent her horse cribbing. I painted cribstop on the posts originally and he just carried on.

We ran electric and offsets on top of each and every post and he still manages to get onto the corner of a post to do it. I am a fellow livery who is just trying to look after the safety of my horses, hence why I shelled out £100 of my own money to buy everything. I screwed in over 400 offsets between all of our fields as well as providing my own battery and energiser. I spent my entire summer doing this and she has done nothing to help.

She said last year she would pay for the damages, but as of yet, nothing.
 
If she has said he will pay for the damages, invoice her.

A bit awkward as you are not the yard owner. And you did the work off your own back, she is not obliged to help (perhaps morally), it is the kind of maintenance I would expect the Yard Owner to do and charge for.
 
I don't think anyone is at 'fault' but it does depend on conversations you have had with the livery. If in the past you have asked them to repair or sort out the damage or it is in their contract you are within your rights to go back to them re. the damage. If you have said nothing then it is unfair to now spring it on them.
 
Some people have no conscience. I am a yard owner and have over the years had many damages caused by livery horses. Some are much more damaging than others. Also if one chews wood, it seems to teach the others to chew wood too. My fences and gates are constantly needing repairs, which I, as yard owner do at my own expense. I have it written into the contract that normal wear and tear caused by liveries is my responsibility, but that if a particular horse is particularly destructive, I reserve the right to bill the livery concerned. Although I have had two VERY destructive horses who have caused way more damage than any normal horse, I have chosen not to bill the owners. I guess this is mainly because they are full liveries and therefore I tend to bear the costs myself. But it is good to have a clause in the contract that allows me to bill the liveries if I so choose. I would try to get your yard owner to sort out some sort of written contract for any future liveries. There is not really anything you can do about the current situation because it all relies on the good will of the livery concerned, and it sounds as though she does not have any! But you need to protect yourself for the future.
 
As another livery you actually should not have done the work - you should have contacted the yo about it.
 
Firstly I want to say that it is nigh on impossible to stop a horse from crib biting. Secondly, if the YO wanted her to pay for the damage then she should have been invoiced for it. It is no good going on about who is in the right - if the YO hasn't presented her with an invoice stating exactly how much she should pay then she isn't really under any obligation to pay anything. Yes, maybe she has a moral duty to pay for the damage caused, but nothing more than that.

My sister owns a chronic crib biter. It can be very difficult at times - we really can't stop him doing it! Where they are currently kept our YO is very understanding. He has a metal sleeve on top of his door to stop him damaging the wood and when he is in a smaller field we also cribbox all the fence posts or section them off with electric fencing so he can't reach them. It's not such an issue in winter when he and his fieldmate have a 9 acre field for 2. Obviously if our YO asked us to pay for any damage then we would, although so far he has done nothing worse than give a few fence posts a slightly chewed appearance. Funnily enough, he has never so much as loosened a fence post, which would make me wonder whether the posts on your yard were not particularly secure to begin with.
 
Firstly I want to say that it is nigh on impossible to stop a horse from crib biting. Secondly, if the YO wanted her to pay for the damage then she should have been invoiced for it. It is no good going on about who is in the right - if the YO hasn't presented her with an invoice stating exactly how much she should pay then she isn't really under any obligation to pay anything. Yes, maybe she has a moral duty to pay for the damage caused, but nothing more than that.

My sister owns a chronic crib biter. It can be very difficult at times - we really can't stop him doing it! Where they are currently kept our YO is very understanding. He has a metal sleeve on top of his door to stop him damaging the wood and when he is in a smaller field we also cribbox all the fence posts or section them off with electric fencing so he can't reach them. It's not such an issue in winter when he and his fieldmate have a 9 acre field for 2. Obviously if our YO asked us to pay for any damage then we would, although so far he has done nothing worse than give a few fence posts a slightly chewed appearance. Funnily enough, he has never so much as loosened a fence post, which would make me wonder whether the posts on your yard were not particularly secure to begin with.
 
Heelsdown said:
We do not have a contract in place. We are a very small, private DIY yard.

She was told by the yard owner many times that she needs to stop or at least try and prevent her horse cribbing. I painted cribstop on the posts originally and he just carried on.

We ran electric and offsets on top of each and every post and he still manages to get onto the corner of a post to do it. I am a fellow livery who is just trying to look after the safety of my horses, hence why I shelled out £100 of my own money to buy everything. I screwed in over 400 offsets between all of our fields as well as providing my own battery and energiser. I spent my entire summer doing this and she has done nothing to help.

She said last year she would pay for the damages, but as of yet, nothing.
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Give her a bill, she agreed to pay, now she needs to do it. If you put it at £2/300 with a £100 discount for payment in ten days, that might help.
 
It goes with the territory.Just consider it a normal business cost. I must confess that my experience is that it has more to do with the yard than the horse. Next door yard has fences chewed to bits . Where I keep my horse ,it is a rarity,yet loads more horses and far more intensive(but the horses are happy)
 
I am not sure what's going on here. If you aren't the yard owner, why were you paying out to make fencing safe? It's nice that you did it, but I don't think you'll have a leg to stand on when it comes to getting your money back. Unless, the yard owner gets a grip, invoices livery for the damage caused, and pays you back what you spent.

I have it written into my livery contracts that any damage to fencing that isn't fair wear and tear must be paid for by the livery. This would have to be fairly extensive damage for me to invoke it - my post and rail is a bit elderly, so I'm not going to staart getting antsy about the fact that I have a beaver and two leaners here. I just make sure I have a hammer and nails and some cribstop handy at all times!
 
No advice but I wanted to say I know how you feel I livery at a private farm. Just me and now my friend, the farm has two other livery yard, where he makes a lot more money, so we are bottom of the pecking order. I've had loose posts for 3 yrs that he's not fixed. I've finally got 10 posts out of him and my dad is having to come Down to whack them in for me.

I do also get annoyed when my friends pony breaks my plastic posts, I've supplied every and if the electric is off and her pony notices he will run through it. I had to get a few battery for the fence at Xmas to stop him breaking out. Because if he gets out then mine might follow him. It's not fair but it's for the safety of mine. So I just pay for it
 
Heelsdown said:
When she was looking for a new yard she said to me ''I just won't tell them about [horses name] cribbing''
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Aargh, I had one of these move into my last yard-we shared a yard, I wasn't the yard owner and it was diy. She did not mention cribbing before she moved in, despite me asking. Her horse knackered a fence over the course of a winter- post and rail. The fence was about 30yo but perfectly serviceable . She was asked to take preventative measures but completely believed her horse didn't crib in the field, despite all evidence to the contrary. She also didn't believe one other horse also did it when she was turning the other out/bringing one in and the third mimicked the behaviour. Owners made her pay for half the cost of fixing it which she felt unfair but she did pay.

Unfortunately by stepping in I'm not sure what you can do now, people behave how they are allowed to behave and she's got away with it.
 
The people running the yard ought to have put electric fence around the inside of the fence as soon as the issue started .
Lack of day to day management that's the cause of this sort of issue.
 
Heelsdown said:
We do not have a contract in place. We are a very small, private DIY yard.
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I would bill her for the damage to the posts, If I was the horse's owner I would have already paid for the damage, but that's just me. You should really have a contract in place no matter what size of yard you are. We are on a small private yard, there are a total of 5 horses, one being the owners. We have a contract i place, it lays down what is expected of liveries so everyone knows their responsibilities. We've never had to refer to it, we all get on great, been there over 5 years now & have no intention of leaving.
 
One of my horses cribs and I made YO aware before moving there. Horse has a dedicated cribbing post and I have run electric tape on top of all others. I have offered to pay for any damage if I ever leave . The YO is supposed to replace my fencing if needed due to wear and tear but doesn't (we pay for it and keep it safe) so I would hope that she wouldn't ask for any payment. I'm afraid I wouldn't have waited this long to mention it.
 
Originally Posted by Goldenstar

The people running the yard ought to have put electric fence around the inside of the fence as soon as the issue started .
Lack of day to day management that's the cause of this sort of issue.

Absolutely.



To my mind it comes under the umbrella of wear and tear, although, it should have been stopped as soon as it was noticed, the extent of the damage OP is talking about is actually YO's own fault.

I had 'beavers and leaners' at my yard, as soon as I found that fact out (owners never told me of course) the horses were moved into T post and electric wired paddocks, no wooden fence posts within reach, and I threw in branches for the beavers, the leaners just got zapped. Fortunately the beavers were not stabled, if they had been I would have covered the door/walls of their stall with metal. No-one complained, I explained why and said I would understand if they wished to leave, hoping that they would - they didn't.

Gate smashers and climbers, I had one massive draft cross gelding that would stand on the rails of the gates, they just had the gates wired off so they couldn't reach them, inconvenient, but not as much so as reshaping or replacing gates.
 
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Haven't read the whole thread but Cribox is to my miserable penny pinching mind horrifically expensive. Industrial vaseline/petroleum jelly with a generous addition of paprika stirred in works just as well.

Rather than offsets, put in an ordinary fence post every 30 metres or so with a screw in insulator a metre or so away from the original fence. They can reach in under to graze a bit but won't be able to reach the fence.

As for the damage, invoice the horse owner with a specified time limit to pay, then Small Claims court.

Firmness brings respect. If that fails, fear is a good substitute!
 
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