paying to ride - what do you expect for £20

charlie76 said:
Tnavas said:
A firm reminder of her obligations - for £20 I'd expect to have the horse properly quartered, tacked up, warmed up properly and exercised for at least 45mins. Then brought back cool, sponged and brushed over - feet picked out, rugged and put away.

If she is schooling the horse then I'd expect the work to be around 30 mins - but quartered before and brushed over after.[/QU

Really? No wonder the equine world is the worst paid! If I did all that for £20 and took my travel costs out of it it wouldn't be worth the effort to be honest.
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With a National minimum wage of £6.50 getting £20 an hour is good money.
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Not by the time you take out your travel and fuel costs! Also, my training and qualifications cost a fortune too so that has to be factored in. I actually think £20 for a well qualified/ well reknowed rider is cheap.
Less face it, if you organised Carl Hester or similar to come and ride for you , you wouldn't be expecting him to do all the groom work so why should some one else? If you are paying some one to ride,that's what you are paying for. Its thenyard,/ owners job to prepare the horse unless they pay a bit extra for those jobs to be done.
And before its pointed out , I know some one like Carl is a big example but they would charge much much more so its all relative.
If you expect some one to drive there, catch, groom, tack up, ride for 45 mins, wash off , groom and sort horse out and drive home again ( fuel both ways) its not really an hours work is it?
 
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I pay a pro £20 to ride my horse. He rides for 40 mins. I always have my mare tacked up and waiting for him, although he usually washes her off and turns her out after because I have to go to work. I wouldn't expect him to have to drag the horse out the field and groom it. I think you should reiterate your expectations and see what they think is a fair price for doing it. Personally, having a pro regularly ride my horse has really helped us come on so if it was me I'd negotiate on price to improve the standard of general care.
 
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charlie76 said:
Not by the time you take out your travel and fuel costs! Also, my training and qualifications cost a fortune too so that has to be factored in. I actually think £20 for a well qualified/ well reknowed rider is cheap.
Less face it, if you organised Carl Hester or similar to come and ride for you , you wouldn't be expecting him to do all the groom work so why should some one else? If you are paying some one to ride,that's what you are paying for. Its thenyard,/ owners job to prepare the horse unless they pay a bit extra for those jobs to be done.
And before its pointed out , I know some one like Carl is a big example but they would charge much much more so its all relative.
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But she's not employing someone of that calibre to ride her horse, I expect it's cash in hand so add on the value of the tax - that is good money.
 
Tnavas said:
charlie76 said:
With a National minimum wage of £6.50 getting £20 an hour is good money.
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Yes, but what you describe would be more like 90 minutes. If she travels fifteen minutes to get to you that's two hours, and she's probably spent a couple of pounds on fuel, depending on what she drives, so suddenly it's £9 per hour ... If she has to pay for her own insurance that's another cost, and if you're self employed you aren't getting employer contributions to NI, or sick pay, or holiday pay, and the very nature of the job makes it difficult to do "full time" hours unless you work every day ...

NMW isn't usually paid for skilled jobs. I'd argue riding is a skilled job and carries a significant degree of responsibility, so NMW isn't appropriate.
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She hasn't stated how huig a calibre rider the girl is, as I said, its all relative. I was paying a rider( not well known or highly qualified) to school my horse once a week and she was helping us get through an issue with we both stuck with. I paid her thirty pounds for about 45 mins, the horse was tacked up ready for her and I took the horse off if her after , I'm sure she would have happily rugged him back up but I'm paying for her skills as a rider, not her skills as a groom. It prob cost her £10 in fuel to get to me.
The likes of riders at carls level would be charge around £100 plus mark for their skilss so surely they should be cleaning tack as well for that amount? !? When you employ a 'rider' to ride your horse that's what they expect to do, ride it. I'm not saying and in have done, that if presented with a dirty horse , I wouldn't knock the mud off but if it happened a lot then I'm afraid I would be upping my costs to cover grooming time.
 
Theocat said:
Tnavas said:
Yes, but what you describe would be more like 90 minutes. If she travels fifteen minutes to get to you that's two hours, and she's probably spent a couple of pounds on fuel, depending on what she drives, so suddenly it's £9 per hour ... If she has to pay for her own insurance that's another cost, and if you're self employed you aren't getting employer contributions to NI, or sick pay, or holiday pay, and the very nature of the job makes it difficult to do "full time" hours unless you work every day ...

NMW isn't usually paid for skilled jobs. I'd argue riding is a skilled job and carries a significant degree of responsibility, so NMW isn't appropriate.
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Exactly!!!
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Regardless of whether its good money presumably at some point it was agreed what would be involved
If the rider agreed to it but on reflection realises its a raw deal they need to speak up not short change their customer
 
I have a pro rider I pay to ride my horse for the last few years a couple if times a week. The clock ie the time for which you are paying starts when they arrive ie if I'm about and tack up they ride a bit longer if they tack up they ride less. The clock stops when they leave. Which I think is only fair. So if you are expecting a 40 min ride and you want other duties done you have to add on time for that and money. I also think if you are using someone long term regularly you can't just judge by one day. Ie yesterday was New Year's Eve they were probably in a rush to go out and spend the evening with friends. I think most people are guilty of not putting in the best days work the day before you go on holiday or before Xmas etc. well I know I am! So I always say well my rider turns in in all weathers rides in the freezing cold rain etc. they are are always kind to my horse and are a fair better rider than me so I have no worries re them falling off. They turn up when they say they will. We are all human so I'm sure there will be a day or two over a six month period they are not on top form and do a little less! So I look at the bigger picture over a longer time period. My concern would be the trotting on roads. You need to discuss what level of walk trot etc you want. I always do. But you need to pay them enough time to do the ride and duties you want or find a shorter ride or have once a week properly with more time than twice a week rushed if you can't afford to spend more on it. As I think the main problem is you are not giving them enough time. This is going on the basis you say they have a good reputation and in general people are happy with the work they do.
 
I think people assume that freelance riders/ instructors/ livery yard owners must be raking it in but they don't look at the bigger pictures, the insurance, the outgoings, the unsociable hours, CPD, first aid.. It goes on and on.
 
WelshD said:
Regardless of whether its good money presumably at some point it was agreed what would be involved
If the rider agreed to it but on reflection realises its a raw deal they need to speak up not short change their customer
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This is what it is all about - if you are contracted at a certain rate to do a certain job - you do it or renegotiate terms.
 
So the question was ' am I expecting too much for my £20?'
Well yes, I think you are.
There has obviously been a miscommunication some where so you need to tell the girl what you want done, but be prepared to pay her for what you want done.
 
ahh, maybe I am expecting too much but the arrangement was she would get in and tack up etc so I guess I presumed you wouldn't ride without brushing or picking the feet out....my mistake for presuming and just saying 'etc' without clarifying - she has a yard and is Instructor so must know the basic care was my thinking.

She originally said 15 for 45 mins (she lives a couple of minutes away) but then she upped it to 20 due to petrol costs which I agreed to. Then she said she wasn't happy riding just once a week as he was fresh so will want to do twice a week so I agreed to that.
My neighbour has since said she saw her go out in field with lunge line and caught him and then cantered him around for a few minutes with rug on? All getting too odd for my liking so think ill let her go.
Thanks to everyone - one thing ive learnt, communication/ written contract maybe so no grey areas!! lol
 
You really have to have faith in the person who is doing your horse, esp if you are not there. I pay a lady £20, twice a week to ride my horse. She has access to my tack room and is at the property on her own. I expect her to spend at least an hour on my horse and that includes getting him ready. If I am on holiday I still have her ride as I do not wish to lose my slot, when I am there I get him ready. This means she can ride him longer. Once she finishes my horse she is off to another yard. If she spent two hours at my place she would be late for the rest of the day. However this did not stop her spending hours putting all my electric fencing when the little sod pulled it down. It seems to me you have lost trust in the person doing your horse and if that has happened you need to sort it out. Either talk to her or find someone else.
 
Sukistokes2 said:
You really have to have faith in the person who is doing your horse, esp if you are not there. I pay a lady £20, twice a week to ride my horse. She has access to my tack room and is at the property on her own. I expect her to spend at least an hour on my horse and that includes getting him ready. If I am on holiday I still have her ride as I do not wish to lose my slot, when I am there I get him ready. This means she can ride him longer. Once she finishes my horse she is off to another yard. If she spent two hours at my place she would be late for the rest of the day. However this did not stop her spending hours putting all my electric fencing when the little sod pulled it down. It seems to me you have lost trust in the person doing your horse and if that has happened you need to sort it out. Either talk to her or find someone else.
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she sounds like she genuinely cares and I guess that's what I wanted :-( I don't ,mind a short ride but feel few basics should be done like feet- are you anywhere near thanet and would your lady want another to do?!
 
charliecrisps said:
she sounds like she genuinely cares and I guess that's what I wanted :-( I don't ,mind a short ride but feel few basics should be done like feet- are you anywhere near thanet and would your lady want another to do?!
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Sadly I think we are just too far away in Maidstone, you are very right she treats them like they are her own, with lots of love.
 
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If you specifically agreed she was to brush, ride for 40min specifically in walk, brush off and turn out again, id be very annoyed.
if she agreed to do so for 20 then that was the agreement, irrespective of what others pay or charge.
 
Regardless of wether people think £20 is good money or not, the woman agreed to do it at that amount and is now taking the mick!

I would be finding someone else, you could find a grateful sharer instead and thye would potentially love him like their own.
 
She does sound as though she is rather taking the p. If you're going to let her go (I would too!) I would first ask her what kind of things she'd been doing, and then point out you and your neighbours had noticed some different versions of events!

I used to have a girl exercise my eventer. She charged £12/hr and I paid for 90 mins, 60 ridden and 30 preparing/brushing off. She always left the horse well. While I was off work on reduced pay I had to let her go and she'd stopped doing freelance by the time I was back at work. I've never found anyone reliable, paid or unpaid, since!
 
For me it would depend on how good a rider/horsewoman they were in the first place. Someone who is qualified and has their own insurance, public liability etc and a good rider I would expect a least £20per hour probably more and I would expect them to be better at everything than me. I would say to do what you wanted is going to take a hour and half at least, then you have travel time so it works about £10 an hour, so I would suspect she has realised its not worth her time and is cutting corners so she can do it in an hour, I suggest you ask for feedback and go from there, finding someone good is hard.
 
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