PC age groups - am I being precious?!

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diddy

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Hi everyone,

LittleDiddy is in Yr 7 & has been in Pony Club for a few years now. I am on the committee so have an idea how it all works & the difficulties of keeping everyone happy & safe!

The problem we have is that she is consistently being put in a group with children younger than her. At the last rally, she was the only one in high school & others in her group of 6 were as young as Yr4. Some of them are good little riders so no comment on them at all. It's just that she loves going to PC mainly to see her friends & it's getting to the point where she now doesn't want to go because she says she feels embarrassed. So at this latest rally, she was in the small arena practising rising trot on her big pony with all the older primary-age kids on their 12.2s & 13.2s while her friends were next door jumping 3-foot fences - you get the picture!

I have tried speaking to the instructors about it but they just say it's hard to balance the different ages & abilities, which I get, I really do. We also know that she is not as strong & fearless as some of her friends & she doesn't ride as much as they do because she does lots of other things on the weekends. However, she really enjoys riding on her terms & is perfectly capable of jumping said 3-foot fences (unlike me I might add!) I feel very sad that PC is starting to put her off rather than encourage her, especially when we have both put some much time into it over the years. It also puts me in an awkward position being on the committee.

Is this usual/acceptable i.e. to put her in with kids who are maybe 3 years younger? Or should I be a bit more pushy & ask for her to be put with people her own age? I think either way, if that doesn't happen she's going to end up dropping out, so I guess nothing ventured nothing gained but I just wanted some reassurance that I'm not being that gobby PC mum who we all despise!

Thank you for listening :)

D. x
 
Be completely honest with yourself - is she at a suitable ability to keep up with the higher group without holding them back?

Why not take a short break from PC rallies, invest in getting her confident enough to move up and then reintroduce PC. You don't need to tell her this is what you are doing but you can discuss it with the Cheif instructor? It's a fine balance

The other thing you could potentially consider alongside is joining a RC with a junior section
 
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No you are right to be concerned, my son had same thing when he was 12. But it was his horse that was not quite up to the jumping 3foot... He loaned a different horse for one camp and he was fab, so we had to buy a new horse!!!
Have a word about your worries with the DC and instructor, and ask if just for one lesson/ rally your child can join the bigger class to see how it goes, explain how she is loosing interest due to being with the smaller age group...
 
No, some PCs are difficult. I ended up quitting PC (along with someone else) due to bad groupings. I'm small and had the most amazing 13.3hh pony that was jumping 1.15 classes (back when everything was still in feet and inches!) but I got dropped down a group a camp because my friends/rough age group had all gotten new steeds that were 15hh plus. They weren't jumping any bigger though and some of them couldn't ride very well at all. My friend who quit was jumping SJ at about 1.20/1.30 at hickstead and she got dropped to the (very bad) groups I was dropped to.
It makes a huge difference when stuff like that happens.
I teach for a pony club on occasion and they try to do it by age and ability. You find that with kids they don't mind so much what they are doing if they are with their friends and that the less confident just won't jump so high. I start off with small jumps at a SJ rally and work on technique, and pop the jumps up for "those who want to have a go" jumping bigger. But not until those that don't get to go once more over the smaller height. Flat lessons are easier as most exercises can be made harder /more challenging for those that find it easy.
It's also worth noting that confidence in kids can be wobbly and child doing 3 foot one week won't want to jump more than 2 foot the next.

I'd have a word with someone and check it isn't happening with one particular instructor. The worst they can do is say no. Child is more likely to improve with friends.
 
I'd say that grouping according to ability & confidence is far safer than according to age.

Could you maybe stick to flatwork rallies where she could be grouped with others her own age? From the sounds of it she isn't that keen anyway, so would missing some rallies really bother her? And maybe it's time to have an honest chat with her about whether she's that bothered about Pony Club - if she is then maybe get some lessons to get her to a stage where she's confident & happy jumping at the same level as her friends, if she isn't then maybe take a step back & just let her enjoy her pony & do more other things.
 
I have found that in PC, groups tend to be made up in terms of ability first and age 2nd, and most kids tend to fall into obvious groups - which makes it easier for rallies. However, there will always be one or two who don't, and it sounds like your daughter is one of them.

You say she is too competent for the group she's in, but that she's not as brave as the group her friends are in. Is there one in between? She needs to be with people who will stretch her more than she's getting now, but possibly not in a group that might frighten her, or overface her.

I can imagine that in making up rides, that the Chief Instructor has probably made up groups of 6, and as a more occasional, weaker rider, she has been the one to be dropped down a group.

Difficult one, but it's certainly worth asking the CI about it.
 
Had very similar problems at our branch. One child was kept at a lower group than her ability despite parent's protests and then at the competition rally was expected to jump/do dressage at the level her age group was doing. Her day was a disaster. Our kids were sick of it too and felt they were being held back.
 
Age should only be part of the consideration when arranging groups, I guess she is at the tricky stage of being the oldest, most capable in the lower group yet not quite to the standard of her peers and friends, the instructors should be aiming to get her up to the level but it will not be easy to make that step as the higher group are also progressing while her group seem to be doing basics.

I think the suggestion of some private lessons is a good idea, find an instructor who will build her confidence, the problem with being the least confident in a group is that some instructors feel they have to hold the whole group back to avoid making them feel inadequate, I think a decent instructor should be able to cater for differing abilities without being too obvious, if jumping and they think one rider is not ready to do a certain exercise they should be able to deal with it tactfully, not always easy, so they can push the best in the group without overfacing the others.

As you are on the committee could you suggest a third group or some rallies that are not just about jumping higher but more on style and technique, something that would benefit them all, from what I have seen at jumping rallies there is often little actual instruction going on, it does tend to be more about getting over than how you do it but I understand her frustration at being held back, usually the best in the group can be used as an "example" to show the younger ones how to do something well and be allowed to do a more tricky exercise, this can really build confidence and self esteem but it sounds as if she is just being ignored and going to slip through the loop and out of the PC scene which would be a shame.
 
Thanks everyone - some very interesting thoughts there!

I think she is more than capable of being in with people her own age. While she isn't out competing every weekend like some of them are (although not all of them), she is a good little rider. I think this keeps happening for 2 reasons. We kept her on her previous pony for far too long so I sympathise with you Romany - she was getting held down because the pony couldn't keep up & it seems almost like there's a bit of hangover from that. In addition, she's very quiet & never complains, which isn't always the best strategy in an environment like PC (or maybe it's just ours, where people don't like confrontation!) where it definitely seems like those who make the most noise are treated with care in terms of which group they get put into etc.!

Agree with you Kylara that she really wouldn't mind what she was doing as long as she was with her mates. And as a teacher myself, I do think it isn't rocket science to get the best out of everyone within such a small group - she's more than happy to get to her comfort zone then sit it out & I don't think that spoils things for either her or anyone else who's a bit more gung-ho in the group! The last thing I would want is for her to push herself beyond her limits but I don't think that means she can't join in with her friends as far as she's able, which - let's face it - is quite a lot further than I would be able to do, which is why I think the instructors are judging her a bit harshly!

And yes, ihatework, I like your suggestion of perhaps taking a break or doing other things alongside. I've suggested we do some XC schooling & fun rides over the summer to get her out & about - if we take one of her friends she gets the fun of PC without the embarrassment factor! And Nari, you're right also that she isn't really that passionate about it compared to many other kids so she wouldn't be broken-hearted to stop. But she does enjoy it in her own way & as I'm more than happy to take care of her pony (we share it), so far as I'm concerned she can ride at whatever level she's happy with as it's a nice way for us to spend time together, lots of her friends ride, & it keeps her away from boys for bit longer :)

Thanks again for all your ideas - will help me speak to the DC in a more rational manner!

D. x
 
Our PC really tries to group by age because they understand the friends part is really important especially for camp. But it does cause difficulties as age groups can be very varied in ability. Reverse situation to yours but there is a girl in our PC who is v talented but is often put with lesser ability riders of similar age but she still has fun, she rarely gets put in an older group who are the same ability on much bigger horses because although she enjoys the challenge she doesn't enjoy being the younger girl and feels left out nor does the striding work when doing jumping exercises for her little pony! Her mum says PC is and should be the fun side and she quite likes being the capable one in a lesser ability group. When I was in similar situation with my daughter I didn't complain but the chief instructor came over and said we know this group is a bit young for her but we want her to feel top dog and happy with her riding confidence and ability in this group and then we will move her up. I would definitely speak to the chief instructor and explain your concerns though so at least they are aware, I found that we didn't cross our chief instructors path v often and she hadn't really appreciated just what daughter had been doing.
 
Keep pushing - you're paying just as much as the others and your daughter is getting nowhere near as much out of it. Would one more in the higher group really be that disruptive?

My friend and I were in a similar position in Pony club when we were teenagers. We had totally non-horsey parents and scruffy but perfectly capable borrowed 14hh ponies. We were 2/3 years older than those in the 'top' group on their 16hh very expensive warmbloods but were always put in a group with kids 4 or 5 years younger than us jumping about a foot lower than us. We'd always have to wait until the end of a group to do fences at a height that suited us and then we'd run out of time so only had about two attempts at once fence each. As 15 year olds with no parental involvement we'd ask to move up a group but would be ignored.

Then came the Pony Club Horse Trials. I entered the same class as the 'top' group. I was last after dressage (as ever :rolleyes:) but climbed up a bit after show jumping. On the XC course there were some new fences - two of which were quite spooky. All the 'best' horses had at least one stop at one or both fences. My scruffy little man flew round and we ended up winning. At the next rally they moved me up a group but not my friend. I made a huge fuss (the first time I realised I had to stand up for myself) and refused to go without her so they relented. We never looked back and I still had that scruffy pony at 27!
 
The advice of speaking to the DC was good. This is the sort of thing that pushes people out of PC but equally they need to be safe. In our PC we are coming up to the time of year where we are having all day rallies so there is a mix of jumping/flat and more time so these rallies are easier to cope with varied abilities rather than say 1hr jumping rally.

Possibly look at getting your daughter some one on one tuition to bring her confidence in the jumping up so that she can hold her own in the higher group.

I know it is difficult when age and ability groups don't match but she would feel just as bad if she went up and then ended up holding up the whole group. It is especially difficult as someone mentioned when they reach the age group of starting to move onto horses, it is further thrown when the rider is very competent but the horse is a baby.
 
My friend and I had the same issues at pony club. We both had young ponies, hers was a 5 year old arab type and mine was a 5 year old Welsh D. Due to how babyish her horse was, she was put into the class with the younger children whilst I was in the older class amongst those on horses.

My horse was quite simply more experienced and much more confident than her pony. In the end, we often swapped so we could both have the experience of riding two completely different horses. It worked well for us.

I'd speak to the dc and instructors and see what they say.
 
diddy said:
Thanks everyone - some very interesting thoughts there!



. . . And Nari, you're right also that she isn't really that passionate about it compared to many other kids so she wouldn't be broken-hearted to stop. But she does enjoy it in her own way & as I'm more than happy to take care of her pony (we share it), so far as I'm concerned she can ride at whatever level she's happy with as it's a nice way for us to spend time together, lots of her friends ride, & it keeps her away from boys for bit longer :)

Thanks again for all your ideas - will help me speak to the DC in a more rational manner!

D. x
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She's a lucky girl to have a mum who doesn't push her & understands that it's meant to be fun! x
 
I think I would say something. Never been in a PC but seen a girl who went from being in a group with her friends to being shunted down a level for no reason. She hadn't dropped down in ability compared to her friends so there was no reason for it.

Even though your daughter isn't as confident as girls in her class that doesn't mean she should be stuck relearning rising trot. She could just sit out of stuff she doesn't want to do.
 
As Rachk89 says, if they are doing a fence she isn't happy with she needn't do it. Put your pushy parent hat on!
 
Hi, I organise rally groups for our pony club. Can I just offer a different perspective? Once I have accommodated children of parents who tell me that; x who can't come until 2pm, y who has to come with z as one mum is bringing them both and A who definitely cannot ride in the same group as B as their ponies used to live together and nap, sometimes the groups do look a bit odd! Some of the mums are rather pushy generally in a friendly way and those who shout loudest often get listened too. I am not sure how big your PC is but in our PC our DC has very little to do with the organisation of weekly rallies. Perhaps speaking to the rally organiser might be a useful first point of contact. Maybe even a trial one week of being in the bigger group would allow you all to see if she and her pony are happy.

Good luck.
 
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Speak to the DC - there must be a reason she's been in the group below - likely her and her ponyw eren't up to it. It may be with her new pony there is scope to go up a group- find out what she needs to do to be moved up.
As a rider there is another side which is if you see you are always in a group with someone who holds the group back or doesn't want to go as high that can be off putting too..
 
Hi again,

Loads more replies - thank you! I'm glad that you don't think I'm being too unreasonable. And like I said upthread, I do appreciate how much work the instructors & the rally organisers put into organising everything. I think that is partly why I'm cross about the situation (actually, got a bit more cross than I realised as I was thinking about what to say to you guys earlier on!) - I help out a lot more than most but my daughter doesn't seem to be getting much benefit!

Thanks again for all your ideas & for sharing your stories. At least those of you who had less than perfect Pony Club experiences are still out there riding, so that's very heartening :) :) :) I'm going to have a word in a very diplomatic fashion & hopefully it'll all work out for the best - maybe she'll be jumping everyone under (or over) the table in no time at all!

D. x
 
If it were my child, I'd simply take the instructor aside and be honest with her - tell her your daughter is upset and losing confidence due to being in with much younger / less able riders, ask her if it would be possible to just try moving her into the other group 2 or 3 times just to see how she gets on? Think that's the easiest and really the only way?
 
similar thing happening to me but my idea! ive lost all my confidence so im with 7 year olds on their 10.2hh with me, late teens, on my 14.2 but i love it! it takes all the pressure off me. and when im with the other better ability kids i feel embrased as they are (often) younger than me but so much better. i also dont have to worry about holding them back :) think it depends on situation and personal preference really x
 
Our branch was useless at forming fair groups as they were only interested in the favoured few and it caused a lot of dissatisfaction. As borne out by the vast number who left-at least 100 members. I think the instructors could have tried harder though to suit the lessons to the participants and the better ones did so.
 
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