Peculiar vet advice

[scatty_mare]

The horse is a 6 year old id x tb, nice stamp. Big gelding.
The owner bought him to hunt and he has hunted a couple of seasons in Ireland but is totally green every other way, so I was asked to give him some basic schooling over jumps and on the flat (she would like to event him).

He arrived in June having passed a 5 stage vetting. He was on the lean side, had ring worm and no top line but sound.
He was working well on the flat, balance improving nicely. Jumping wise he was bold and honest but a little gung ho! - as you'd expect really.

Anyway, back in August he all of sudden seemed to find canter transitions on the right rein very difficult, and started bucking. His canter went from a little uncoordinated but obedient and pretty balanced to banana-shaped and rushy with his head leaning wildly to the outside. To me he looked unlevel behind so I said that until he had been sorted out I wasn't prepared to ride him.

To cut a long story short the owner told me I was talking rubbish as he had just been vetted and has been hunting him 2-3 times a week since cubbing started at the beginning of September. To get rid of the inconvenient bucking she has been giving him plenty of sedalin and bute every time she rides. However he still canters like a banana and people started commenting on it so she finally gave in and had the physio out a couple of weeks ago.
The physio said there is definitely a problem, the horse is definitely not sound, and it definitely needs the attention of a vet.

She rang me yesterday and said could I come and start riding him again because the vet has said it is a phase he is going through while his growth plates fuse, and we need to ride him through it, and I quote "use gadgets to bully him into working in an outline". WTF?????!!!!!

Is it really possible that a vet would give this advice?
He said she needs to ride at all times in draw reins, and she can continue to hunt him.
What on earth is going on? I feel so confused! This vet is very highly thought of. Could he be right?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

It doesn't sound right to me. Has she given the vet all the information?

 

[TheEquineOak]

Has she definetly had the vet out...sounds like porky pies

If my vet told me to bully my horse to work in an outline while his 'plates fused' I'd be getting a second opinion

 

[scatty_mare]

To be honest I don't know what she told him, but I would have thought she would have given him the full story, no point otherwise.
She said the vet lunged the horse and watched her ride and concluded that her legs and seat weren't strong enough to work him into the contact so she needed to use gadgets.
All sounds very weird to me and I don't really want to be a part of it!

 

[Echo Bravo]

If a vet gave that advice. I'd recommend someone report him, could be your so called friend is having you on, I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole as if things really go wrong you are first in the firing line.

 

[MrsMozart]

Step away lass!

He's six years old. What plates are still fusing? Why the pain, i.e. the bucks?

Any chance of you bumping into the vet and having a chat?

 

[scatty_mare]

I'm glad I'm not the only one smelling rats!
No worries, I am going to steer clear. here are my reasons:
1. the horse is in pain
2. I do not wish to bully a horse in pain
3. I'd rather lose the money and the client than hurt myself
3. Draw reins are against my religion

 

[Kellys Heroes]

Deff doesn't sound like vets advice to me!

My first guess would be that the vet would be investigating WHY the horse is bucking - and why its suddenly come on!
If he's 6, what "plates would be fusing?" Very confusing
Agree with MrsM, any chance of having a chat with the vet?
K x

 

[Vodkagirly]

She was treating with bute and sedalin but didn't think there was a physical problem??? If he stopped bucking it proves there was a problem.
I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, I think she is in denial and hasn't spoke to a vet. You could end up being blamed.

 

[scatty_mare]

She was treating with bute and sedalin but didn't think there was a physical problem??? If he stopped bucking it proves there was a problem.
I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, I think she is in denial and hasn't spoke to a vet. You could end up being blamed.

Exactly!
I could talk to her vet but it isn't really any of my business as it isn't a friend, just someone I ride for.
I am worried about the horse though. Not sure if there is anything I can do. Any ideas of how I can get through to her that she will ruin her horse if she doesn't get him properly investigated?
Talking money always works

 

[Maesfen]

I'd like to know the name of the vet so I can avoid him like the plague. What a load of bull*****e.
Poor horse. With the work he's already done at that age, he could well be still maturing. Sounds like he needs a few months off to let everything settle down before he's asked to do any work at all.

 

[brighteyes]

Never heard such rubbish in my life - she's knackered it up somehow and doesn't care/want to admit it. Tell her she's on her own and why.

 

[Mogg]

im nowhere near as knowledgeable as most of the people on HHO but even to me this sounds like some cobbled-together-from-Google advice to enable to owner to justify (in her mind) her own view of how to treat the horse's behaviour rather than actual advice from a vet.

i feel for you tho, even tho she's just a client your concern is for the horse. Poor animal

 

[eggs]

Do you know for sure that she actually had a vet out and itsn't just making this "advice" up?

 

[scatty_mare]

Do you know for sure that she actually had a vet out and itsn't just making this "advice" up?

No, I only know what she told me.
I find it hard to believe that any vet would suggest something like that without first ruling out pain issues, but I also find it hard to believe that someone would pay 7 grand for a horse and then knowingly ruin it.

She bought a 4 year old a couple of years ago which also developed very similar symptoms. This makes me wonder if it something to do with the way she sits, or perhaps the way she hangs on its mouth and doesn't let it move forwards.
Anyway, that time the vet provided her with 2 months worth of bute and told her it was probably behavioural. Makes absolutely no sense. None whatsoever.
Poor horses.

 

[Nailed]

Think she needs too look at the fuse times of the epitheasil (sp? lol) plates

The horse has blatently got summit wrong and the vetting certificate is only as good as the day it is completed.. just like an MOT.

Lou x

 

[silver zaanif]

advice from vet - "now pull the vet wrap as tight as you can" - i think not. lucky my real vet is the best vet ever!

 

[Ladylina83]

Oh dear me - I have heard everything now ! A vet using the word Bully ! I can only imagine this was a small animal vet more accustomed to hamsters and not anyone who actually knows anything about horses

Not all that much you can do, hand it back and say if you had been given that advice by a vet you would have got a second opinion and that you are not willing to work on the horse any longer and risk your own reputation

 

[julieleach9]

I can smell a very large rat with twitching whiskers...

Seems a shame for the horse that nothing will be done. Could you not suggest she ought to have it checked by a second vet and that you wonder if the vet saw the problem? Maybe say it might not have been properly visible as the bute was masking it.

If the only way through to her is ref money, suggest she is better getting it thoroughly checked asap to 'protect her investment' and the sooner she sorts it, the sooner she can up her insured value and 'saleable value'.

Assume back, tack, teeth all been checked as a matter of course? (I am typing this thinking possibly not given what you have said about her!)

 

[kerilli]

I'd like to know the name of the vet so I can avoid him like the plague. What a load of bull*****e.
Poor horse.

absolutely. I'd want another vet to check him, with you present, if possible. a proper trusted respected equine vet, of course.
otherwise, tell her what you think, for the sake of the horse, and then walk away.

if he's cantering like a banana, and bucking, there is something wrong. with his back or the saddle, or his teeth, or something else.
bullying him into an outline with gadgets? words actually fail me now.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Honestly stay well away, otherwise you could find your reputation shot to bits, if something is really wrong with the horse and once words gets round that you knackered said horse,there go your paying customers.

 

[scatty_mare]

It is a highly respected horse vet. I won't give the name though as the owner of the banana in question may have lied about the advice given.
I want to walk away and leave her to it, but I can't bear to watch her ruin another horse. She is one of these people who buy gadgets rather than lessons and will never attribute any behavioural problems to their own riding... She also has far too much money to spend on fancy competition horses when really she would be better suited to something with a bit less blood.
I hope I haven't got the wrong end of the banana-stick and misunderstood what she was saying. I will have a proper conversation with her about it tomorrow.
I am very good at speaking my mind so I will definitely let her know my views on the situation.
Thanks for all the advice

 

[tikino]

scatty_mare why don't you call her bluff and tell her you need to speak to her vet to understand exactly what he wants you to do with the horse and see what her reaction is. If she says no tell her you can't ride him until the vet clarify s whats to be done with him

 

[smellsofhorse]

I dont think she has really seen the vet or the vet hasnt been told the full story

 

[Nari]

scatty_mare why don't you call her bluff and tell her you need to speak to her vet to understand exactly what he wants you to do with the horse and see what her reaction is. If she says no tell her you can't ride him until the vet clarify s whats to be done with him

This ^

I called the vet when someone with a very tiny laminitic asked me to give it two bute a day "as that's what the vet said, I had him out at 6 this morning". Hmmm, I think not! Needless to say the vet hadn't been & pony did not get that amount of bute, but it did get the farrier care it needed (thanks to a good YO, not owner).

 

[PurplePickle]

oh good grief dont you just want to slap her around the head with a wet fish! hard!

 

[Tinypony]

Just by riding the horse for her, you won't prevent her from ruining him. It sounds as if he has some serious physical issues, but really, there is nothing you can do about it. Just walk away. If she complains why not tell her that, regardless of what a vet is alleged to have said, you are not prepared to "bully" any horse with gadgets.

 

[LucyPriory]

Bully and horse do not belong in the same space.

There is never any excuse for bullying behaviour although some will seek to find justification and will keep on asking for advice until they find someone that will comply.

Most bullies are weak and/or cowards and are quite happy to put their horses health or other peoples health at risk rather than deal with the problem at hand.

The horse needs a proper work up and probably a break.

 

[SusannaF]

Tell her that Rossdales' told you that if a horse's tectonic plates haven't fused by the time it's six, it should be passed on to a nice home where people actually know and care about horses...

 

[scatty_mare]

Some of these responses have made me laugh!
Maybe I should just show the owner this thread.

Well I have had a long chat with her, and she insists that this is what the vet advises.

He thinks the problem is slipping patellas, and that the horse needs to strengthen up his back and hind quarters to fix the problem. This makes sense but as far as I understand doesn't explain the lameness and pain issues.

Slipping stifles shouldn't make the horse lame should they? I have known several horses who have had this, and haven't known any pain issues to arise out of it. It's more just they have to take a little step backwards when they have been standing for a while.

I said that if the horse was mine I would want the lameness investigated further, and that I am not comfortable with working him while he is not sound and clearly in pain.

Thoughts?