Pedigree Dogs are suffering
- Thread starter AmyMay
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muffinino
Well-Known Member
I don't know anything about pedigree dogs or breeding but I am shocked that mother to son and brother to sister breedings are registered by the Kennel Club. Surely that's just asking for trouble?
AmyMay
Situation normal
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I don't know anything about pedigree dogs or breeding but I am shocked that mother to son and brother to sister breedings are registered by the Kennel Club. Surely that's just asking for trouble?
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Yes, I was really suprised to read this as well. Doesn't take a genius to understand what the possible implications of this are.
I don't know anything about pedigree dogs or breeding but I am shocked that mother to son and brother to sister breedings are registered by the Kennel Club. Surely that's just asking for trouble?
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Yes, I was really suprised to read this as well. Doesn't take a genius to understand what the possible implications of this are.
Foxfolly
Well-Known Member
Don't get me started on this... the KC have a lot to answer for!!
A friend has a CKC spaniel with that problem, it absolutely horrendous to think about what it must be like!!
Also my hubby had chesapeke bay retireivers that had a hereditary problem that meant in their older years (When he found out they had it) they lost feeling in their back end, since found out the breeder knew but carried on with that line as they were doing well at shows!!
That is why we have Patterdale terriers as yet the KC haven't had their grubby hands on the breed!!
We would consider line breeding 'to fix a type' BUT the closest would be our foundation bitch back to a pup from her daughter by an outside dog. So I reckon that makes it a grandson. Or we could use our stud dog over a bitch from his daughter by an outside dog.
A friend has a CKC spaniel with that problem, it absolutely horrendous to think about what it must be like!!
Also my hubby had chesapeke bay retireivers that had a hereditary problem that meant in their older years (When he found out they had it) they lost feeling in their back end, since found out the breeder knew but carried on with that line as they were doing well at shows!!
That is why we have Patterdale terriers as yet the KC haven't had their grubby hands on the breed!!
We would consider line breeding 'to fix a type' BUT the closest would be our foundation bitch back to a pup from her daughter by an outside dog. So I reckon that makes it a grandson. Or we could use our stud dog over a bitch from his daughter by an outside dog.
Malibu
Well-Known Member
This is really rather interesting and a matter I have wished to come into the hands of the media.
In uk dog breeding, looks stands for a lot! And it seems health issues take a back seat, although hip scoring is now mandatory for one to remain a member of said breed club and eye tests increase in number but...........compared to how potential stallions are examined, tested and treated!
As a breeder I would like to see a big CHANGE, I would like to see breeding programmes, gradings, much more mandatory health tests so limitations on how many litters a stud can sire. In denmark I believe this is already in place so gene pools are not weakened nor decreased in lines and quality.
The problem is it is sooooooooooooo easy to mate a dog, have a litter, register with kc and sell each pup for a £1000 and it should not be this way. I want to see the KC put their foot down and take control of the matter before this gets out of hand and lines are riddled with all sorts (some may say thay are already!)
In uk dog breeding, looks stands for a lot! And it seems health issues take a back seat, although hip scoring is now mandatory for one to remain a member of said breed club and eye tests increase in number but...........compared to how potential stallions are examined, tested and treated!
As a breeder I would like to see a big CHANGE, I would like to see breeding programmes, gradings, much more mandatory health tests so limitations on how many litters a stud can sire. In denmark I believe this is already in place so gene pools are not weakened nor decreased in lines and quality.
The problem is it is sooooooooooooo easy to mate a dog, have a litter, register with kc and sell each pup for a £1000 and it should not be this way. I want to see the KC put their foot down and take control of the matter before this gets out of hand and lines are riddled with all sorts (some may say thay are already!)
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
The KC sit smuggly saying they are helping to improve the breeds but all they are really interested in is money for registrations. For years many people in GSDs have trying to get the KC to set a maximum hip score for breeding stock, but they just aren't interested. ALso working tests before dogs are awarded Challenge Certificates. I personally have always been shocked by the breeds that routinely have caesarian sections to produce their litters because they are incapable of whelping naturally. How wrong is that
birchave0
Well-Known Member
i fear we may be going down the same route as the USA kennel club
I once watched a program about Dobermans and Great Danes. They perform opererations on their ears to make them stand up, how cruel is that?
What makes me laugh about the UK Kennel Club as Tophorse says, anyone can breed and register a litter. I have known breeders who register a litter of 10 when the bitch has only had 8 pups, they then have "spare" papers if they ever need them for an unpapered daog, madness
They also bang on about the breed types, my cocker spaniel is working bred, and although she is KC registered imagine if we ever took her to a show, we would be laughed out of the ring. As the cocker was bred as a gun dog why do the "true examples of the breed" shown at shows around the country look nothing like my worker???? The same goes for fat show labs, oops rant over
What makes me laugh about the UK Kennel Club as Tophorse says, anyone can breed and register a litter. I have known breeders who register a litter of 10 when the bitch has only had 8 pups, they then have "spare" papers if they ever need them for an unpapered daog, madness
They also bang on about the breed types, my cocker spaniel is working bred, and although she is KC registered imagine if we ever took her to a show, we would be laughed out of the ring. As the cocker was bred as a gun dog why do the "true examples of the breed" shown at shows around the country look nothing like my worker???? The same goes for fat show labs, oops rant over
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
Exactly. There shouldn't be "show" and "working" types. Such breeds are supposed to be able to do a job. Can you imagine a show cocker spaniel managing a day in the field?
birchave0
Well-Known Member
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Exactly. There shouldn't be "show" and "working" types. Such breeds are supposed to be able to do a job. Can you imagine a show cocker spaniel managing a day in the field?
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It's long ears would get muddy!!!
Exactly. There shouldn't be "show" and "working" types. Such breeds are supposed to be able to do a job. Can you imagine a show cocker spaniel managing a day in the field?
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It's long ears would get muddy!!!
juliehannah58
Well-Known Member
Owning a British Bulldog this is a subject close to my heart! My dog is actually the healthiest Bulldog my vet has seen, he has straight strong limbs, many less wrinkles and less skin above his nose than has become expected. This is because his breeder works hard to try and improve the health and welfare of the pups they breed. So what happens at Crufts? Top Bulldog is one with bent weak limbs, huge rolls of skin over his airways, overweight and wrinkles everywhere.
It's not right, they should reward the consiencous breeders with the rossettes, not encourage breeding poor standard animals!
It's not right, they should reward the consiencous breeders with the rossettes, not encourage breeding poor standard animals!
Malibu
Well-Known Member
I recently made up our own home bred bitch who is 1 years old to a show champion. Now, I have no hesitation or problem in saying she could do a full days hard work! She is not a show type, she is a dog true to type who has been commended on her long floaty paces without the sharp short hackney like steps, strong limbs, natural muscle from working in the fields not from a running machine and he nature is that of true loving and kindness.
I am so proud of her because she is what we have wanted for so long and now we have it and no one else does, she is that of her dad who one of the most renowned studs and show dogs in the world but............. the amout of litters he has sired is something of another topic because breeders are these days are not thinking! We used the stud to get more bone which we got as we had the movement, type, head and temp etc and were among the first to use him but........... now has everyone else and I stand in classes where every and I mean every dog is sired by him, the gene pool will be somewhat nothing soon and now health issues rise to the surface in our breed!
We need a line, a very stone line made by the KC that dictates what one must do before their stud dog can get its leg over any bitch!
I am so proud of her because she is what we have wanted for so long and now we have it and no one else does, she is that of her dad who one of the most renowned studs and show dogs in the world but............. the amout of litters he has sired is something of another topic because breeders are these days are not thinking! We used the stud to get more bone which we got as we had the movement, type, head and temp etc and were among the first to use him but........... now has everyone else and I stand in classes where every and I mean every dog is sired by him, the gene pool will be somewhat nothing soon and now health issues rise to the surface in our breed!
We need a line, a very stone line made by the KC that dictates what one must do before their stud dog can get its leg over any bitch!
foxviewstud
Well-Known Member
im suprised it has taken this long to get in the media, most lines in kc are inbred hence all the problems like gsd hips, pugs not being able to breath and run the risk of prolapsed eye balls, bulldogs not being able to give birth naturally, the whole lot of it is disgusting, but these types of breeders care for nothing but rossettes and sadly it happens in the horse world too. again human interferance is causing suffering because it wouldnt happen in the wild.
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
As I have just said in the Dogs forum, my mum and sister are very prominent CKCS breeders/exhibitors. There is far more to the issues mentioned for CKCS (cant spell syringomyelia
) than is reported in this programme, which is similar reporting to that shown by Lucretia about eventing in Latest News a few days ago.
echodomino
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to go into detail on here but, I don't think all of the responsibility lies with the KC. Surely the breeders should have the majority of input into what they are breeding. It does make me cross too when those of us responsible enough to breed healthy specimens to healthy specimens - in all aspects.
Cop-Pop
Well-Known Member
The kennel club are a funny lot
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
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The kennel club are a funny lot
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Now there is an understatement
Mum has finally got around to being nominated and accepted as a KC member....I did have fun teasing her about it
The kennel club are a funny lot
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Now there is an understatement
girla
Well-Known Member
Anyone that breeds dogs should have enough concious about them to breed for the quality of the breed and not just the money.
But hey clouds are made from candy floss and we will all be millionaires by the end of they year, if you get my drift.
But hey clouds are made from candy floss and we will all be millionaires by the end of they year, if you get my drift.
SirenaXVI
Well-Known Member
Am very surprised that this has only just reached the media, this has been going on for years, I too think the kennel club has got a lot to answer for
My sister used to breed working border collies, they bore no relation to the 'show' type the KC are pushing now, not least becauses they did not have the temperament problems that are apparent in the breed now.
I despaired when they let Parson Jack Russells in, my first thoughts being, there goes another good breed
My sister used to breed working border collies, they bore no relation to the 'show' type the KC are pushing now, not least becauses they did not have the temperament problems that are apparent in the breed now.
I despaired when they let Parson Jack Russells in, my first thoughts being, there goes another good breed
kerilli
Well-Known Member
no news to me there unfortunately. that's why i like my scruffy jrts.
SirenaXVI
Well-Known Member
me too!
Laafet
Well-Known Member
Its the same with pedigree cats too to a lesser extent. I have a beautiful Burmilla, but he is a reject, heavily inbred and as a result the most terrible front leg conformation you have ever seen, he is very bow legged to the point he looks like he is always crouching down. I got him from a rescue centre where he had been abandoned after living with a family for four years, they obviously didn't want to pay for the cat cortaflex and such like as he got older.
MooMoo
Well-Known Member
There's a documentary on bbc1 about it tonight, actually i was about to make a thread about it but then i saw this one.
That poor little King Charles!! I know its not the owners fault necessarily but i think they should have i pts, it cant be having any sort of quality of life surely?
These people are purely evil, and stupid too. Do they even like dogs? Because if they did they'd want to breed healthy ones - obviously its all about money. Some poor unsuspecting family will come along and be ripped off and then have to face the heartbreak of seeing their pet in such a state. Its so sad that the KC are pretty much endorsing this when surely they should be protecting the welfare of all dogs.
That poor little King Charles!! I know its not the owners fault necessarily but i think they should have i pts, it cant be having any sort of quality of life surely?
These people are purely evil, and stupid too. Do they even like dogs? Because if they did they'd want to breed healthy ones - obviously its all about money. Some poor unsuspecting family will come along and be ripped off and then have to face the heartbreak of seeing their pet in such a state. Its so sad that the KC are pretty much endorsing this when surely they should be protecting the welfare of all dogs.
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
Sorry MooMoo but it is most certainly not all about money, and these are not just dogs being bred for pet homes - there are plenty of dogs which are bred for the show ring who have this condition.
MooMoo
Well-Known Member
someone made a point earlier about how easy it is to get KC registered and then sell them for more money.
Show ring/money, whatever its still about their own gain - not the welfare of the dogs or of benefit to the breed.
Show ring/money, whatever its still about their own gain - not the welfare of the dogs or of benefit to the breed.
dingle12
Well-Known Member
im suprised its taken this long to come out in the media, there are loads of pedigree breeds suffering and its the vets that are trying to give the animals a normal pain free life. I think the KC should have a good long hard look at there breeding standards. Give me an Heinz 57 anyday.
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
Yep would totally agree with your second point there! Generally it is about breeders turning a blind eye to the fact that their stock have these genetic problems, because they want their top winning animals to continue being successful....
MooMoo
Well-Known Member
Its disgusting! I'm sure there are good breeders out there but (now i'm not 100% on this i guess i'll find out later) the jist i got from the news article was that they are under KC, so basically (if its true) you couldnt really differenciate between good ones and bad (other than word of mouth).
Maybe buying from someone who breeds dogs as working would be better (even if you werent going to work them) might be better - they probably wouldnt care about some stupid ribbon over the quality of their dogs. Just a thought though.
Maybe buying from someone who breeds dogs as working would be better (even if you werent going to work them) might be better - they probably wouldnt care about some stupid ribbon over the quality of their dogs. Just a thought though.
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
If you read the whole thread you will see that my mum and sister are both top breeders/exhibitors of CKCS so I would have to say that there are some good ones out there
You must bear in mind that the programme and associated news articles do not represent the full story, they represent the slant which the BBC (or whoever made the documentary) chose to put on the story. As I said earlier, it is the same principle used by the American people who produced the report on eventing which Lucretia posted a few days ago - there is undoubtedly some truth in what they are saying, but it is biased reporting
You must bear in mind that the programme and associated news articles do not represent the full story, they represent the slant which the BBC (or whoever made the documentary) chose to put on the story. As I said earlier, it is the same principle used by the American people who produced the report on eventing which Lucretia posted a few days ago - there is undoubtedly some truth in what they are saying, but it is biased reporting
MooMoo
Well-Known Member
Oh of course, i'm not going to religiously believe whatever the bbc says! And i didnt mean any offence - the complete opposite actually, if they are approving bad and good breeders under the same name then its not fair on the good ones.
Acolyte
Well-Known Member
No honestly, no offence taken
Whilst they are responsible breeders etc etc etc I am afraid I walked away from the dog showing/breeding world twenty years ago, so I just sit on the sidelines and giggle at them now
I have yet to work out how the Kennel Club's mind actually works yet however
I have yet to work out how the Kennel Club's mind actually works yet however