Pedigree for Temperament?!

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kit279

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I have a 16h chestnut Irish Thoroughbred who was bred for racing but wasn't really interested in it so came to me instead and we event and hunt. He's now 12 years old and has been without question the best natured horse I've ever met, totally irreplaceable and quite brave and talented in his own laid-back way! I know he won't last forever though and I'd love to have another Thoroughbred from his line.

I've been looking at his pedigree online and I've found a close relative of his from the dam's side in a stud in Gloucestershire. She's 8 years old and currently in foal to another Thoroughbred. Asking price is £2000 for her but I'd have to start from scratch as she's basically a broodmare.

Any thoughts? I've never had a horse from a foal before but I don't mind retraining the mare. Do you think that it's worth going to the bother of having the same bloodline just for temperament's sake?
 
I find that with TBs, members of the same family are more often that not, similar in temperament. But obviously there is no guarantee.
I also find that trainers like particular families because of temperament and trainability, not just speed, so there must be something in it!
I say go for it!
 
All of my Quarter Horses are related - the reason? Because almost without question, the bloodline I chose seems to have horses who behave in the same fashion; they are reliable, loyal, trustworthy and good workers.

I would think the same goes for certain lines in any breed. I would be very cautious about taking on an 8 year old broodmare though - they can become quite complacent and not want to work for you.
 
whats is the name of your irish TB? i know my mare that i lost, i started off looking to purchase one of her relatives, as a result, i'm not getting quite into looking up all of the names etc! i think i have become addicted!
 
My TB is called Pipador, raced 11 times, came last 11 times... He's by Pips Pride out of Dorado LLave but only the dam's side is still breeding. The 'relative' mare I was thinking I might buy is called Fille de Fleurie and she's had some foals that might be suitable but then I've never had a youngster of my own before so I'm a bit wary of that. Hmm, input much appreciated!
 
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He's by Pips Pride out of Dorado LLave but only the dam's side is still breeding. The 'relative' mare I was thinking I might buy is called Fille de Fleurie and she's had some foals that might be suitable but then I've never had a youngster of my own before so I'm a bit wary of that. Hmm, input much appreciated!

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ooooo - in my search for a broodmare to buy, i've seen a TB mare by Pips Pride for sale! 11 years old, 16hh Bay, this one isnt in foal.
My late mare and your gelding were relatives - very distantly thou
smile.gif
she had such a sweet tempremant!
 
Sooooo

If you were looking for a stud horse, just on temperament, who would you choose as the coolest, most laid back, people-friendly horse you know?

there was a stallion at Newmarket once called Reach who fulfilled all of those criteria - I'd have used him on kid's ponies he was so laid back - but he was sold off to Japan which always seemed an unearthly shame.

given that I'll be looking for a nice 16hh-ish stud horse sometime soon, and temperament is top of the tick list, I'd be interested in ideas.

thanks

E
 
Last summer when we went to look at unbroken ponies, we went and saw Woody (the one we brought!!!!) we also got to see mummy in a field and daddy (Lord of the Dance) in the stable. So Emma (breeder) opens the door wide open and says in ya go, so there is 4 of us in the stable with the door wide open with a stallion (in end april!!!) without anything on!!!! by the end we're all prodding and poking him all over and he just stood there enjoyin the attention!!!
 
I always thought that the dam had more influence on the offsprings' temperament, but then yesterday I was told about a horse by my first stallion General Lee Gold, who had the exact same temperament as his daddy.

I mean right down to details such as hating anything to get in front of him - my stally was a ngithmare to hack unless he was in front, and even used to try to race cars that passed him when out hacking; his son was, according to his rider, the best endurance horse she ever rode, partly because his mission in life was always to catch up and pass any horse that was in front...

One example doesn't prove anything, of course, but interesting nonetheless!
 
Learned behaviour tends to come from the dam except in natural herd situations when the foal can learn from the sire.

Inherited behaviour obviously can come from both sides, but if one or other had dominant traits (that is, dominant genetically, not necessarily dominant behaviourally) they'll come through

it's the old 'nature vs nurture' debate, but the best we can do is breed from the best - taking temperament into account as well as all the other factors, to reach the desired end. The problems come when two traits are mutually incompatible. If only 'very hot' horses win at dressage (not saying they do), then generations of very hot horses will be bred, which will be unhandlable by the average horse owner.

so - still looking for horses with good temperaments - widening the cachement area - interested in good temperered QHs and arabs - in fact anything...

E
 
"but if one or other had dominant traits (that is, dominant genetically, not necessarily dominant behaviourally) they'll come through"
Would that not follow from a mare that was dominant in the herd? She would be top of the pecking order which would put her offspring there too. It is interesting to note that most people myself included have used a stallion because his offspring have been known to have good temperments. It is easier because the mares hardly ever get a mention & they are restricted to 1 offspring a yr, whereas a stallion has many more.
 
I suppose it also depends on exactly what we mean by 'good temperament'?

People don't always mean quite the same thing - for example I get the impression that for some people good = calm and laid-back, whereas others are happy with a more 'hot', excitable character providing the horse is friendly/willing/cheerful and not aggressive.
 
good point, htobago. "good temperament" to me means never having an evil thought, the kind of horse that wouldn't bite or kick even if a golden opportunity presented itself, and who is tolerant and patient, too, doesn't take advantage.
i guess the bottom line is "would i happily send a non-horsey person to lead it out to the field and turn it out", for example!
i don't know if it's typical of the breeding, but my Alderbrook x Good Thyne mare has an absolutely wonderful temperament, and is very trainable too.
 
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good point, htobago. "good temperament" to me means never having an evil thought, the kind of horse that wouldn't bite or kick even if a golden opportunity presented itself, and who is tolerant and patient, too, doesn't take advantage.
i guess the bottom line is "would i happily send a non-horsey person to lead it out to the field and turn it out", for example!

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This is exactly what I would look for in a good temperament and the reason why I've bought one of Horsegroupies Teddy babies
smile.gif
Teddy's very laid back and incredibly sweet natured
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I have a filly by Andes out of a TB mare-
this is her pedigree for anyone interested
http://www.pedigreequery.com/malayan+sun

she will be two in may and has been an absolute angel from day one! you can do anything with her, I am looking forward to breaking her in when the time comes.

I think her temperment is due to her breeding but I think it helps if you have them from birth. They dont pick up any bad habits of anyone else
 
Really interesting to see the offspring of a TB stallion that we came across (actually by accident, had gone to eventer's yard with friend to deliver some goodies for her horse ...) last weekend - they were all complete sweeties, very much underlining what we saw of him in the field. It reminded me how incredibly useful it is to (ideally) get to see the offspring of a stallion out of different mares - next best thing is to consult HHOs! It really does show up if the stallion stamps his temperament on his offspring
 
Thanks kerilli - it's an interesting question, isn't it?

I'm not totally sure that the 'leading out to the field' test would be universally applicable, though. Leading my young stallion can be a bit like taking a large bouncy balloon for a walk - he's got good manners, and is very sweet-natured, but is inclined to prance about and show off - a non-horsey person might find this a bit alarming, although it is basically harmless.

My test is 'would I happily send a non-horsey person to poo-pick the horse's stable?' - with the horse loose in the box, of course, not tied up or anything. My chap passes this one with flying colours (providing you don't mind him following you around with his inquisitive nose over your shoulder, being 'helpful' LOL)!

He's a good example, actually, of the different meanings people attach to the term 'good temperament' - as he is very sweet and affectionate, very cheerful and willing and eager to please, not a nasty bone in his body...but also somewhat 'hot' - fizzy and excitable and full of himself. I could not honestly describe him as calm or laid-back or patient. But I would describe him as having a 'good temperament'.... would you?
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I would describe my TB as having a good temperament because he is incredibly easy to handle on the ground, absolutely bombproof, very affectionate and could be ridden by anyone but still performs to the best of his ability every time. I would attribute this to his dam who was pretty much the same but then I never met the sire. In the future though, I would always want to see both parents before I bought a youngster - it's true of breed dogs so I'd assume the same for breed horses!
 
Adding the complication that not every horse - mare or stallion - "stamps" its offspring in every way, every time. I certainly know stallions with lovely temperaments who clearly do not influence their foals accordingly and I know a few mares who are not so tractable themselves but consistently produce easy to deal with foals. Then again I know one stallion by Burgraaf - a horse not always know for producing laid back horses - that is an absolute doll himself and puts super easy going kids on the ground, even out of not so simple mares. (He's also won at GP level and now shows as a hunter, where temperament - at least in the ring - is part of the package.)

And it does depend on what one considers "desirable". There in one Hann line which seems to produce very "sweet" horses that are inclined to walk on their hind legs when stressed. And I had three to break from one mare who ALL lay down and had a complete paddy when they were first saddled/longed/asked to do just about anything but ended up great show horses. If you saw the first group in the field you'd think they were the friendliest critters ever, if you saw the second group getting broke you'd think they were lunatics. I had an event horse from a TB line (back to St Simon) known to be quirky but successful - he was the safest thing ever to ride and handle but did insane things once and awhile.

A point of confusion is what the big studbooks call good "temperament" (different from ridability) and what many owners consider attractive. They are talking "competition horse" attitude (including stallion presence) not ultra calmness. In fact a breeding horse that's too laid back - to the point where it's not careful, say - is considered undesirable. The temperament to be an absolutely top competition horse is rarely the same one that makes a good amateur mount but there is more anecdotal than statistical proof which makes it hard for a single mare owner to judge.

An exception would be the AQHA and Arabs (at least in NA), which provide very thorough statistics on what horses do well in what classes but I can't think of another breed that keeps such complete stats.

(Personally I think you can make just about any horse "sweet", at least at first glance, but you can't necessarily make them brave/sensible/honest/forward thinking.)
 
[ QUOTE ]

This is exactly what I would look for in a good temperament and the reason why I've bought one of Horsegroupies Teddy babies
smile.gif
Teddy's very laid back and incredibly sweet natured
cool.gif


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Teddy being.....?

I'm looking for a sire *just* like that....
laugh.gif


thanks

E
 
kit279 said:
My TB is called Pipador, raced 11 times, came last 11 times... He's by Pips Pride out of Dorado LLave but only the dam's side is still breeding. The 'relative' mare I was thinking I might buy is called Fille de Fleurie and she's had some foals that might be suitable but then I've never had a youngster of my own before so I'm a bit wary of that. Hmm, input much appreciated!
Click to expand...

Hey, I just discovered this (very) old thread, Fille de Fleurie is one of the nicest horses I've ever met in my entire life and she appears to be passing that trait onto her foals, recently having one by a Rock of Gibraltar stallion that is going to be a star! I have such a soft spot for this mare you just wouldn't believe!
 
Dizzle said:
Hey, I just discovered this (very) old thread, Fille de Fleurie is one of the nicest horses I've ever met in my entire life and she appears to be passing that trait onto her foals, recently having one by a Rock of Gibraltar stallion that is going to be a star! I have such a soft spot for this mare you just wouldn't believe!
Click to expand...

High Rock? I can only think of one other son of RoG at stud with foals on the ground...
 
kit279 said:
I have a 16h chestnut Irish Thoroughbred who was bred for racing but wasn't really interested in it so came to me instead and we event and hunt. He's now 12 years old and has been without question the best natured horse I've ever met, totally irreplaceable and quite brave and talented in his own laid-back way! I know he won't last forever though and I'd love to have another Thoroughbred from his line.

I've been looking at his pedigree online and I've found a close relative of his from the dam's side in a stud in Gloucestershire. She's 8 years old and currently in foal to another Thoroughbred. Asking price is £2000 for her but I'd have to start from scratch as she's basically a broodmare.

Any thoughts? I've never had a horse from a foal before but I don't mind retraining the mare. Do you think that it's worth going to the bother of having the same bloodline just for temperament's sake?
Click to expand...

I would bargain a bit more if you really want her. Even though she is in foal with the climate the way it is these sorts of mares are still really cheap if they go through the sales

http://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/dam_home.sd?horse_id=466386

Check out the sister Bonne De Fleur sold for 400 in 2002 only to win £35,612
Flat placings 311232/100579/910429626607/59541083074428/
 
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Sportznight said:
High Rock? I can only think of one other son of RoG at stud with foals on the ground...
Click to expand...

Bobble Rock, this was his first foal.

Yes, I did dig up a very very old thread but was interesting to see Fleur mentioned, I'm utterly in love with the mare she's so easy to deal with.
 
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